Requesting more detailed alumni salary info Forum
-
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:39 pm
Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
What's the protocol for requesting NALP salary info from a school who doesn't make it public? I've been disheartened to see that a lot of the schools to which I've applied keep this information private, but I'd definitely like to see how their recent alums are faring in the job market before I commit to a school for 3 years. Have any of you folks asked/received that kind of information from schools in the past?
Many thanks!
Many thanks!
-
- Posts: 16639
- Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:19 pm
Re: Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
This isn't what you're looking for, but I just look at the ABA reports for schools.
I generally add up the 101-250 employees (some people don't include this column), 251-500 ", 500+ ", and Federal Clerkships columns. I then divide that number by the total number of grads.
It's not a perfect measure, but it's the proxy I use for the percentage of graduates who get desirable outcomes with high salaries.
http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org
I generally add up the 101-250 employees (some people don't include this column), 251-500 ", 500+ ", and Federal Clerkships columns. I then divide that number by the total number of grads.
It's not a perfect measure, but it's the proxy I use for the percentage of graduates who get desirable outcomes with high salaries.
http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org
-
- Posts: 9180
- Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:14 am
Re: Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=226198Dirigo wrote:This isn't what you're looking for, but I just look at the ABA reports for schools.
I generally add up the 101-250 employees (some people don't include this column), 251-500 ", 500+ ", and Federal Clerkships columns. I then divide that number by the total number of grads.
It's not a perfect measure, but it's the proxy I use for the percentage of graduates who get desirable outcomes with high salaries.
http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org
-
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:39 pm
Re: Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
Thanks to you both. That seems to be the best way to go about it for the schools who keep the salary portion of their NALP report private. When the information has been available (praises be to LST), I've been surprised to see some of the mean and median salaries at mid-sized firms for some of the regional schools I'm considering (South Carolina and Villanova specifically).
-
- Posts: 9180
- Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:14 am
Re: Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
surprised good or surprised bad
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 11730
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am
Re: Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
Like good surprised or bad surprised?SBUalex wrote:Thanks to you both. That seems to be the best way to go about it for the schools who keep the salary portion of their NALP report private. When the information has been available (praises be to LST), I've been surprised to see some of the mean and median salaries at mid-sized firms for some of the regional schools I'm considering (South Carolina and Villanova specifically).
Eta: lol
-
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:39 pm
Re: Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
Good surprised. From what I can see, even graduates who end up at mid-sized firms can make enough to at least pay off their loans (provided they can attend at the right price) and living expenses, with a nice chunk left over to put into savings, mortgages, etc. Perhaps that is not the case for the majority of grads, but it's good to see that all hope of living moderately well is not necessarily lost if Big law doesn't come calling.Like good surprised or bad surprised?
-
- Posts: 16639
- Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:19 pm
Re: Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
And off we go!
- romothesavior
- Posts: 14692
- Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm
Re: Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
Villanova placed 25% students into firms of 26+ and federal clerkships. South Carolina is less than 20%. How does that impress you?SBUalex wrote:Good surprised. From what I can see, even graduates who end up at mid-sized firms can make enough to at least pay off their loans (provided they can attend at the right price) and living expenses, with a nice chunk left over to put into savings, mortgages, etc. Perhaps that is not the case for the majority of grads, but it's good to see that all hope of living moderately well is not necessarily lost if Big law doesn't come calling.Like good surprised or bad surprised?
Going to either of these schools without ties and a huge scholarship is a terrible idea.
- iamgeorgebush
- Posts: 911
- Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:57 pm
Re: Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
Starting salaries in the legal profession are bimodal. Very few graduates make the reported mean or median of the schools you mention. Do not choose a law school based on its mean or median salary, thinking you will probably earn something around that amount. Coming from a school like Villanova, you should instead assume that you will either earn $35k-$70k or nothing at all, with a very small shot at $160k. The $100k (or w/e they're reporting as their mean) jobs just don't exist.
See http://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib and http://lstscorereports.com
See http://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib and http://lstscorereports.com
-
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:39 pm
Re: Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
Yup, I opened myself up for that! Fair points on both counts, but let me clarify:And off we go!
I've been out of school for a few years. I have spent time living in both Philly and SC since then, and I have saved enough to get through at least 1L w/o taking out any loans for my living expenses. Also, I am not considering the idea of enrolling in either of those schools for anything besides a "huge" scholarship. The mean and median starting salaries to which I was referring were like $56 - $61,000. Hypothetically, a salary in that range paired with $30-50,000 of debt nine months after graduation would enable me to comfortably make monthly payments. Also, compare those numbers to my state school--UConn, which is somehow ranked higher than both by many publications--and they actually don't look so bad.
- Clearly
- Posts: 4189
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:09 pm
Re: Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
retake and go to good school. Or drop all notions of biglaw entirely. Also don't email schools and ask for data they deliberately didn't release, especially while you're trying to negotiate "huge money" that's just absurd.
-
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:39 pm
Re: Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
I scored 93rd percentile in the December testing, but I think my UGPA would hold me back from getting into a T14. Even if I did get into a school like Vandy or ND, I can't imagine they'd be throwing much scholarship money at me to attend. So I applied to schools like UGA, WF, ASU and Tulane because they seem to have good reputations, and more likely to give me a favorable scholarship. The employment numbers don't look great at Villanova, but they're actually just about even with Georgia and way better than Arizona State.retake and go to good school. Or drop all notions of biglaw entirely.
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 16639
- Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:19 pm
Re: Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
Your list is so scattered. Those are all regional schools in very different regions.
Plus you'll snag ND with an okay scholarship, I'd expect. ND isn't a great school worth overpaying for, but don't sell yourself short.
Shoot WUSTL an app. They may shell out for your 166.
Plus you'll snag ND with an okay scholarship, I'd expect. ND isn't a great school worth overpaying for, but don't sell yourself short.
Shoot WUSTL an app. They may shell out for your 166.
- iamgeorgebush
- Posts: 911
- Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:57 pm
Re: Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
What this guy said. Schools like those you mentioned are pretty much pointless unless you want to practice in the regions in which they're located. Don't waste your money on them.Dirigo wrote:Your list is so scattered. Those are all regional schools in very different regions.
Plus you'll snag ND with an okay scholarship, I'd expect. ND isn't a great school worth overpaying for, but don't sell yourself short.
Shoot WUSTL an app. They may shell out for your 166.
Also, forget about rankings. They are irrelevant. Instead, look at likely employment outcomes. That's a much more useful metric, assuming you're going to law school so you can be employed as a lawyer, than the silly USNWR rankings. When looking at likely employment outcomes, consult http://lstscorereports.com. Do NOT bother with the schools' websites, as their figures can oftentimes be misleading. LST, on the other hand, uses official ABA data in a way that makes sense. I cannot recommend LST highly enough.
Where do you want to practice? CT?
-
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:39 pm
Re: Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
Thanks for the advice! I don't really want to practice in CT if I can avoid it.
COL in Connecticut is outrageous. Plus, I grew up here, and went to college near Buffalo, NY...I have no desire to see another frigid, snowy winter, so I'd like to relocate to the Southeastern US.
COL in Connecticut is outrageous. Plus, I grew up here, and went to college near Buffalo, NY...I have no desire to see another frigid, snowy winter, so I'd like to relocate to the Southeastern US.
- romothesavior
- Posts: 14692
- Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm
Re: Requesting more detailed alumni salary info
If that's your goal, you should go to a strong regional school (see: flagship state schools) for cheap in those states. Villanova wouldn't be a good option for SEC country.SBUalex wrote:Thanks for the advice! I don't really want to practice in CT if I can avoid it.
COL in Connecticut is outrageous. Plus, I grew up here, and went to college near Buffalo, NY...I have no desire to see another frigid, snowy winter, so I'd like to relocate to the Southeastern US.
You also might consider moving down there to work for a few years before going to law school. Would help you build some ties for job hunting down the road. And just in general, I think working before law school is TCR.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login