UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

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thecap91
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UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby thecap91 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:55 pm

Hello, I am looking for some advise on making a decision on where to go. Here's some background:

I am a non-traditional applicant. I was a horrible high school student, did two years at community college and transferred to UF undergrad where I graduated cum laude. Son of Colombian immigrant parents and first to graduate college in my family. Graduated in May 2014 and have been working for an immigration firm since then.

My career goals are not biglaw or bust but I definitely would like to work biglaw if I have the opportunity. I think I am more than capable of making $$$ in a mid size firm and eventually opening my own practice. I will not be retaking the LSAT.

I also am not sure where I would want to practice. I am a native of south florida but would love to live up north as well. I want to see what people suggest for me to do. I have looked at some of the large firms in Miami and see that many of them have partners that went out of state, so I don't know how bad it would be to attend UMN or BC and come back, maybe you all can help with that.

LSDAS GPA: 3.51
LSAT:164

Current offers:

UMN - 84K with 2.5 stip
BC - No scholly info yet but I am sure ill get something
UF - No scholly info yet but sure ill get something
UGA - So far they've offered me instate for 1L (but they are still reviewing for merit scholly)
FSU - No scholly yet but sure ill get something
UM (Miami) - 96K with 2.5 stip


Pending:
UVA
Duke
UMich
WUSTL
Vandy
W&M
Georgetown

- Every lawyer that I have mentioned UMN to has had the same reaction "oh wow, you got into UMN, that's a great school." So i don't know why everyone is always trashing the school on this forum. If you guys could please give me a little insight, what are the possibilities of coming back to South Florida and getting a position in one of the large firms? My ideal situation would be to work biglaw for a couple of years and save up enough to open my own practice. Plus, I don't know if i'll actually like biglaw to begin with.

I doubt i'll be getting into any of the pending schools, but who knows :).

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Rigo
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby Rigo » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:15 pm

1) This thread is premature.
2) Refusal to retake? I guess you don't truly want biglaw then.
3) The Florida market is notoriously hard to crack. Even HYS students targeting Florida often strike out. Don't bank on Florida.
4) Don't go to a regional school outside of the market you want to practice in.
5) Are you a Louie alt?

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runinthefront
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby runinthefront » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:22 pm

thecap91 wrote:Hello, I am looking for some advise on making a decision on where to go. Here's some background:

I am a non-traditional applicant. I was a horrible high school student, did two years at community college and transferred to UF undergrad where I graduated cum laude. Son of Colombian immigrant parents and first to graduate college in my family. Graduated in May 2014 and have been working for an immigration firm since then.

My career goals are not biglaw or bust but I definitely would like to work biglaw if I have the opportunity. I think I am more than capable of making $$$ in a mid size firm and eventually opening my own practice. I will not be retaking the LSAT.

I also am not sure where I would want to practice. I am a native of south florida but would love to live up north as well. I want to see what people suggest for me to do. I have looked at some of the large firms in Miami and see that many of them have partners that went out of state, so I don't know how bad it would be to attend UMN or BC and come back, maybe you all can help with that.

LSDAS GPA: 3.51
LSAT:164

Current offers:

UMN - 84K with 2.5 stip
BC - No scholly info yet but I am sure ill get something
UF - No scholly info yet but sure ill get something
UGA - So far they've offered me instate for 1L (but they are still reviewing for merit scholly)
FSU - No scholly yet but sure ill get something
UM (Miami) - 96K with 2.5 stip


Pending:
UVA
Duke
UMich
WUSTL
Vandy
W&M
Georgetown

- Every lawyer that I have mentioned UMN to has had the same reaction "oh wow, you got into UMN, that's a great school." So i don't know why everyone is always trashing the school on this forum. If you guys could please give me a little insight, what are the possibilities of coming back to South Florida and getting a position in one of the large firms? My ideal situation would be to work biglaw for a couple of years and save up enough to open my own practice. Plus, I don't know if i'll actually like biglaw to begin with.

I doubt i'll be getting into any of the pending schools, but who knows :).


I have three [white] friends who are currently attending Georgetown with LSATs at or below 160, but 3.85+ GPAs. You're unlikely to get Georgetown without being at one extreme or the other. I don't know enough about W&M and WUSTL to comment. You're almost undoubtedly out everywhere else.

My close [white] friend received a full-ride to one of UF/FSU with a 3.7/164, so I would expect good money at both schools. If you're okay with staying in FL and working "midlaw"/small-law/DA/PD, that could be a defensible option. AT FSU/UF, you have about a 95% chance of never sniffing biglaw.

I wouldn't go to any of the other schools listed in your post, given your background/
Last edited by runinthefront on Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby BigZuck » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:25 pm

You'll never get Florida big law. It's impossible. T14 kids with strong ties strike out all the time. A UMN student is dead in the water. Will never happen. Never. Ever.

You almost certainly won't get big law anywhere due to school range/laziness. Almost. Certainly.

If you're cool with modest outcomes (small firm/local gov type jobs) and can go to a regional school for cheap in the area you want to practice then go for it. Go. For. It.

Is mid law an actual thing? Which specific firms are you thinking of? Would you mind linking us to some of their firm websites? Firm. Websites.

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thecap91
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby thecap91 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:56 pm

BigZuck wrote:You'll never get Florida big law. It's impossible. T14 kids with strong ties strike out all the time. A UMN student is dead in the water. Will never happen. Never. Ever.

You almost certainly won't get big law anywhere due to school range/laziness. Almost. Certainly.

If you're cool with modest outcomes (small firm/local gov type jobs) and can go to a regional school for cheap in the area you want to practice then go for it. Go. For. It.

Is mid law an actual thing? Which specific firms are you thinking of? Would you mind linking us to some of their firm websites? Firm. Websites.


Ok are you saying you've never heard "midlaw" your entire time on TLS?

Also, don't roughly 30% of BC graduates land "biglaw" or "large firm" positions? Are you saying I have no shot at getting a biglaw position there either?

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thecap91
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby thecap91 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:02 pm

runinthefront wrote:
I wouldn't go to any of the other schools listed in your post, given your background/


Would it be to difficult to be one of the 30% of BC students that land large firm jobs due to ties? Or is it something else?

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thecap91
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby thecap91 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:05 pm

Dirigo wrote:1) This thread is premature.
2) Refusal to retake? I guess you don't truly want biglaw then.
3) The Florida market is notoriously hard to crack. Even HYS students targeting Florida often strike out. Don't bank on Florida.
4) Don't go to a regional school outside of the market you want to practice in.
5) Are you a Louie alt?


Whats a Louie alt?

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Rigo
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby Rigo » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:05 pm

thecap91 wrote:
runinthefront wrote:I wouldn't go to any of the other schools listed in your post, given your background/

Would it be to difficult to be one of the 30% of BC students that land large firm jobs due to ties? Or is it something else?

Yeah. Boston employers will be very skeptical of you and you're DOA for Miami.
I'd stick with UF, FSU, or UMiami if I were you.

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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby BigZuck » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:06 pm

thecap91 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:You'll never get Florida big law. It's impossible. T14 kids with strong ties strike out all the time. A UMN student is dead in the water. Will never happen. Never. Ever.

You almost certainly won't get big law anywhere due to school range/laziness. Almost. Certainly.

If you're cool with modest outcomes (small firm/local gov type jobs) and can go to a regional school for cheap in the area you want to practice then go for it. Go. For. It.

Is mid law an actual thing? Which specific firms are you thinking of? Would you mind linking us to some of their firm websites? Firm. Websites.


Ok are you saying you've never heard "midlaw" your entire time on TLS?

Also, don't roughly 30% of BC graduates land "biglaw" or "large firm" positions? Are you saying I have no shot at getting a biglaw position there either?


I think any given rando with Boston ties has probably about a 25% chance at big law from BC. Probably more if they have some good stuff working in their favor (relevant work experience, diversity, hotness) and less if they don't have pre-existing ties to Boston. If you're just kinda of a lazy rando schmo (the type who wouldn't put their best foot forward when applying to law school) then I give you a roughly 13.2% chance of snagging big law. Maybe almost certainly was too strong but that's a big enough of a long shot for me to say it probably ain't gonna happen.

I've heard the term mid law before, still trying to pin down what it is exactly and how it's relevant to freshly minted law grads. Would you mind linking to a few firms that you have in mind when you say you'd be down with mid law?

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runinthefront
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby runinthefront » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:06 pm

thecap91 wrote:
runinthefront wrote:
I wouldn't go to any of the other schools listed in your post, given your background/


Would it be to difficult to be one of the 30% of BC students that land large firm jobs due to ties? Or is it something else?


Statistically, you'll most likely be around median, which would preclude you from Biglaw. In that case, you'd have to gun for small-law/PI in Boston or Florida. Boston firms won't touch you since there's more than enough grads from T14s and BC/BU who are from the area, and, like BigZuck said, HYS grads strike out in FL all the time.

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UnderTheLaw
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby UnderTheLaw » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:09 pm

He's not a Louie alt.

But hey, OP, I'm curious...

As someone who went to UF undergrad what are your thoughts on going to law school there?

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runinthefront
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby runinthefront » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:10 pm

BigZuck wrote:I've heard the term mid law before, still trying to pin down what it is exactly and how it's relevant to freshly minted law grads. Would you mind linking to a few firms that you have in mind when you say you'd be down with mid law?


http://www.gray-robinson.com/p/2/Our-Firm

http://www.bilzin.com/

maybe OP is referencing firms like these? Idk. I would probably call them FL 'biglaw' though, and they're both pretty damn selective, even if they're recruiting mainly from the South

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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:14 pm

I agree with an above post that this thread is a bit premature. Wait for all first offers, then negotiate.

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UnderTheLaw
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby UnderTheLaw » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:19 pm

Any reason you didn't apply to Cornell?

I know someone personally with your numbers who got in.

03152016
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby 03152016 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:20 pm

i wasn't planning on replying to this thread, but then i saw you weren't considering a retake so i had to chime in

it would be a truly foolish and wasteful decision for you not to retake

first these offers are all awful. let me tell you why
you're saying you're not biglaw or bust, but that you definitely would like to work in biglaw
this doesn't make any sense in the context of choosing a school. biglaw placement either is, or is not a factor in your school choice
since you said you definitely would like to work in biglaw, i will assume it is a factor in your school choice
none of the schools you listed are good choices for that outcome
also, i don't understand what you mean by making $$$ in a mid size firm
do you think this is a more attainable outcome for grads of regional schools than biglaw?
if so, explain your reasoning

second, it doesn't look like you've gotten offers that would make any of the schools you listed a reasonable choice
you would be paying far more than any reasonable person should if they are debt financing
some of the schools you listed are perfectly defensible given the right circumstances and price
but based on the limited information you've provided, that doesn't appear to be the case

third, you're considering schools like bc and umn to get back to florida, which makes no sense
if you're going to go to a regional school, plan on practicing in the region
thus the name, regional school

a retake would increase your chances at a school that (a) gives you a meaningful shot at biglaw, (b) at a reasonable cost, unlike the options you've listed, and (c) gives you greater portability to get back to FL
because the three main problems with your scheme can be easily addressed with a retake, you'd have to be one hell of an idiot not to

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thecap91
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby thecap91 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:27 pm

UnderTheLaw wrote:He's not a Louie alt.

But hey, OP, I'm curious...

As someone who went to UF undergrad what are your thoughts on going to law school there?


Personally I didn't have the best time at UF. The town is a bit too small for my preference. Then again I was young and just getting to know my self. It's something that I think about a lot now and it makes me really nervous. If I go back I need to have a completely different attitude about living there. That's just me though. I have friends that have loved living there and want to stay as long as they can. If you like small towns, simple days, and that repetitive schedule, swamp on mondays, cantina on so-and-so day, seeing the same people at every bar or coffee shop you go to, than you'll like it there.

If I were to go back I would probably have to change my entire attitude towards the town. Basically what I am saying is I'm not the best ambassador for the town of Gainesville, UF however is great institution.

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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:30 pm

If you don't like Gainesville, Florida, then cross it off of your list of options since biglaw prospects are not that great.

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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby BigZuck » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:48 pm

OP- I'll apply to your PM here, I think it's for the best considering other people might be considering similar schools or be in similar situations.

thecap91 wrote:Whats your deal, are you having a rough day or something? Can you please let me know what you mean by that? ^^^^

All I'm asking is for some advice. All your doing is making derogatory passive aggressive comments. Seriously. If your not going to give some constructive suggestions don't even comment.


The post he was referring to was this one:

BigZuck wrote:I think any given rando with Boston ties has probably about a 25% chance at big law from BC. Probably more if they have some good stuff working in their favor (relevant work experience, diversity, hotness) and less if they don't have pre-existing ties to Boston. If you're just kinda of a lazy rando schmo (the type who wouldn't put their best foot forward when applying to law school) then I give you a roughly 13.2% chance of snagging big law.


Ok:
My day had been fine, thanks for asking. I've been in the law school for 10 hours which sucks but all in all not too bad other than that.

Not sure exactly what you don't understand.

Rando with Boston ties is someone with Boston ties who is just kind of a generic law student. Meaning they don't have anything special working in their favor (like exceptional work experience or exceptional attractiveness)

A lazy rando schmo is also just kind of a generic law student. Someone who just kinda says "Yeah, this would be cool, I'll take that too, I dunno, I have aspirations but not going to put in the work to get there, hopefully it all works out." Say, the type of person who wants big law but won't put in the work on a standardized test necessary to get into a school that gives them a respectable shot at that.

13.2% is a made up number but I think it fairly encapsulates the approximate chance an individual would both A) Be magically good at law school (something that is impossible to predict before going to law school) and B) Overcome lack of ties at a regional school.

I'm not really sure what is passive aggressive about what I said. If it's the laziness thing, I think I pretty aggressive aggressively called you lazy. Someone who can't be bothered to retake the lsat when that's what they need to do to get where they say they want to go is lazy. Maybe it's not the best adjective to describe someone in that position but that's the best I can think of right now.

I don't understand why you would say that I didn't provide anything constructive, I think everything I have said in this thread as it pertains to your specific situation is really solid and to the point.

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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby 03152016 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:53 pm

op since you brought it up in your original post, why no retake?

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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby MarkfromWI » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:12 pm

thecap91 wrote:
- Every lawyer that I have mentioned UMN to has had the same reaction "oh wow, you got into UMN, that's a great school." So i don't know why everyone is always trashing the school on this forum. If you guys could please give me a little insight, what are the possibilities of coming back to South Florida and getting a position in one of the large firms?


How do you define "great?" As an academic institution? Sure, I guess it's not a bad school. But for you, as a prospective law student, it should be measured in terms of job prospects and costs. Job prospects, it certainly isn't great, considering the ~16% BL+FC score. It only has one market where it is the school and even that is over congested with 3 other TTT's, not to mention T-14 locals trying to come back and overflow from UW and Iowa. And as an out of state student, the tuition is waaaaay too expensive. It has trouble placing in it's own market; there's no way that it will help you get a job in Florida.

Also, do yourself a favor and retake.

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thecap91
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby thecap91 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:15 pm

Brut wrote:op since you brought it up in your original post, why no retake?


I've already retaken, but most important is the fact that I am not dead set on biglaw. I would not mind staying in Boston as I have friends that absolutely love it there and I'm pretty sure I will too. That is why I am considering BC, specially because it gives me a decent chance at biglaw if that is what I decide to do.

I know it may seem a bit confusing to people that I'm not dead set on biglaw, but I'm just not. I know I want to be lawyer and I know that I'll be a good one. My number one career goal is to open up my own practice. I just want to go to the best school that opens up the best opportunities for me. When I say I am not a traditional applicant I'm not only talking about my ethnicity and educational path but also about the person that I am. I am a go getter and very entrepreneurial, I know how to work hard and socialize very well. Getting into biglaw isn't my one and only goal in life. If you want to know, I eventually want to open up businesses and start buying property.

How much of a scholly do you consider to be sufficient to make BC a smart choice? Considering I'm not deadset on biglaw. I also am taking into consideration the networking opportunities ill be getting and I'm even considering doing a JD/MBA.

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Rigo
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby Rigo » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:19 pm

Biglaw placement is often a proxy for a school's general efficacy in placing grads in legal jobs.
Not retaking because you're not sure you want biglaw is missing the point to a large extent.

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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby BigZuck » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:24 pm

thecap91 wrote:
Brut wrote:op since you brought it up in your original post, why no retake?


I've already retaken, but most important is the fact that I am not dead set on biglaw. I would not mind staying in Boston as I have friends that absolutely love it there and I'm pretty sure I will too. That is why I am considering BC, specially because it gives me a decent chance at biglaw if that is what I decide to do.

I know it may seem a bit confusing to people that I'm not dead set on biglaw, but I'm just not. I know I want to be lawyer and I know that I'll be a good one. My number one career goal is to open up my own practice. I just want to go to the best school that opens up the best opportunities for me. When I say I am not a traditional applicant I'm not only talking about my ethnicity and educational path but also about the person that I am. I am a go getter and very entrepreneurial, I know how to work hard and socialize very well. Getting into biglaw isn't my one and only goal in life. If you want to know, I eventually want to open up businesses and start buying property.

How much of a scholly do you consider to be sufficient to make BC a smart choice? Considering I'm not deadset on biglaw. I also am taking into consideration the networking opportunities ill be getting and I'm even considering doing a JD/MBA.


If you're the type of person who is destined to succeed then TLS really can't help you. It's fate.

The advice you'll get here is assuming you're just an ordinary person: not predestined for anything, having to rely on a school's placement power to some extent, etc. Sounds like you've figured out that you're an extraordinary person, which is fine, but I don't think the common wisdom would really apply for you because you'll find a way to succeed no matter what.

I think for an ordinary person who wants to do business, they should go do business. At best, law school is most likely a detour from that path and at worst it can totally derail your life.

I also think that given this range of schools, the average student won't be able to pick and choose what they want to do. Certain career paths will be precluded from large swaths of the class simply by virtue of not rising to the creamy top when the mandatory curve is enforced.

03152016
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby 03152016 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:56 pm

thecap91 wrote:I know it may seem a bit confusing to people that I'm not dead set on biglaw, but I'm just not.

yeah
you're right
it is confusing to people
you know why?

because you said you definitely want to work in biglaw

that's why people are bringing it up

idk man it sounds like you just haven't figured out what you want to do
one moment you want biglaw, another moment you don't
at this point, i'd say sit out a cycle to figure this stuff out

03152016
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Re: UMN vs. BC vs. UF vs. UGA

Postby 03152016 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:58 pm

either biglaw is a factor in your decision or it isn't

if you say you definitely want to work in biglaw, then you're telling the users giving you advice that you consider it a factor

and if it's a factor, it strongly weighs against all of the schools you got into




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