Going to law school in the Midwest with no ties Forum

[hoos89]

Top 1/3 might be okay for local big/mid law at a Midwestern T1 for a native.

might - less than 5% if I had to guess.. it's extremely hard to get this type of job coming out of the t1 in the midwest

Depends on the school/market, obviously. At WUSTL, a student who is top 1/3 and was born and raised in St. Louis will have a decent shot at one of the major St. Louis firms.

[Ron Don Volante]

If you're looking at big money at WUSTL, you're one or two points on the LSAT away from Cornell. That would seem to be a much better fit for your goals.

True, but I'm out of retakes and unfortunately I'm pretty sure I will get dinged from Cornell. Thank you all for the advice. I'm guessing the same is true for Minnesota and ND?

Minnesota is a great school if you want to practice in a small firm in Minneapolis, and you get a great scholarship. I wouldn't go into more than, maybe, 100K debt for ND. If you're not admitted yet, that's probably not a possibility.

I would work a few years in a region you want to be in, retake, then go to the best school that feeds that region, with a good scholarship and some savings.

[Moneytrees]

If you're looking at big money at WUSTL, you're one or two points on the LSAT away from Cornell. That would seem to be a much better fit for your goals.

True, but I'm out of retakes and unfortunately I'm pretty sure I will get dinged from Cornell. Thank you all for the advice. I'm guessing the same is true for Minnesota and ND?

Minnesota is a great school if you want to practice in a small firm in Minneapolis, and you get a great scholarship. I wouldn't go into more than, maybe, 100K debt for ND. If you're not admitted yet, that's probably not a possibility.

I would work a few years in a region you want to be in, retake, then go to the best school that feeds that region, with a good scholarship and some savings.

I like ND. But isn't 100k a lot given the assumption that not having ties to the Midwest is a pretty substantial negative?

[Moneytrees]

Let me re-phrase my question: say I am able to place 1/3 at WashU, ND or Minn. Realistically, what job prospects would I be looking at in that scenario, keeping in mind I have no ties to those regions?

[thebobs1987]

Let me re-phrase my question: say I am able to place 1/3 at WashU, ND or Minn. Realistically, what job prospects would I be looking at in that scenario, keeping in mind I have no ties to those regions?

Top 1/3 at UMN with no ties you are in trouble. Top 1/3 at ND, maybe a shot at big law in Chicago, but not a great chance. Top 1/3 at WUSTL, with no ties to StL probably screwed there and maybe have a shot at big law in Chicago, but not a great shot.

[hoos89]

Top 1/3 at WUSTL with no STL ties is a bad place to be. You'll be lucky to get more than a couple of OCI screeners, and you might not get any callbacks anywhere.

[chuckbass]

Use WUSTL's offer to negotiate with BC/BU

[Ron Don Volante]

I like ND. But isn't 100k a lot given the assumption that not having ties to the Midwest is a pretty substantial negative?

I have already been accepted to ND.

Dollar for dollar, for someone with no ties to the midwest, I think Notre Dame is a better option. The reason WUSTL gets so much love on TLS, though, is that there's almost never a dollar-for-dollar situation, as they give out a shit ton of money. ND is kind of stingy though.

At ND you'll have to go through bullshit like prayers to open class, but it feeds markets that are less ties-sensitive than WUSTL, and -- though I might be talking a bit out my ass -- I am under the impression it has a little more national mobility than WUSTL. But again, if national mobility is a concern, you need to go to a T14.

And, personally, as someone who didn't go T14 and went to a region I had no ties to in an effort to keep costs low/try out a new region: Law school is not the time to try out a new region for fun. Go where you want to live long-term and where you are all but certain you can get a job you'd be happy with. If it means taking a bit more debt, with in reason, do it. Our classes are going to be graduating at a pretty good time.

[MagicMike80]

St. Louis sucks and you do not actually want to live there.

[DaRascal]

Is Iowa a good school to go to without ties?

[BigZuck]

Is Iowa a good school to go to without ties?

Please don't do this

[DaRascal]

Is Iowa a good school to go to without ties?

Please don't do this

I know... I need to get into NU or else I'm facing the good ole free regional school degree trap.

T30 schools can only hurt us in the long run, OP! We'll be precluded from a lot of jobs 10+ years down the line.

[BigZuck]

Is Iowa a good school to go to without ties?

Please don't do this

I know... I need to get into NU or else I'm facing the good ole free regional school degree trap.

T30 schools can only hurt us in the long run, OP! We'll be precluded from a lot of jobs 10+ years down the line.

That's not what I'm talking about

[MarkfromWI]

Do you want to go back to NYC?

I think if you're going to school in the Midwest at a regional school, that kinda is your tie. If you want to stay, that's even better. But I agree with the general consensus that if you go to a regional school (most schools outside the T14) then you should want to stay in that location.

I would be happy to stay in the Midwest, and would hope that law firms would consider my desire to stay+ 3 years of school to be sufficient to have established legitimate ties. But the issue that a lot of people have raised is that a lack of ties can put law firms off, which could be the death knell for somebody like me.

I'm a 1L so what do I know...but I can speak to my experience.

Moved to Chi 1.5 years before law school to be with my sister (that's my "tie") and am at LUC which is considered a regional school. I've had callbacks and been doing well in interviews. People don't question too much if I want to stay but I explain that my sister is here, I bought a condo, I love this city, and yes I want to be here 5-10 years.

I think you have to make it clear in an interview that you aren't going anywhere. Last thing a firm wants is someone who will stay a year and then bolt.

Leigh, you're doing IP though, correct? IP and hiring is somewhat akin to URM and admissions- you're not really on the same playing field as everyone else. Also, as one of the posters above said, interviews =/= offers/jobs

[Moneytrees]

Thank you for all the replies.

[Moneytrees]

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[Moneytrees]

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[Moneytrees]

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[lawschoolbound94]

Honestly, the answer is it depends.

What school?
How well you do?
What market?

I lived in Michigan. If you were going to try somewhere in Michigan, I would not think you would have a problem.

Chicago = if you went to Illinois, you would be fine. Chicago or Northwestern? You might have a issue

So, I would recommend, going to the regional school in the state you want to work in.

[The Mixed Tape]

don't do it bro

[Winston1984]

Honestly, the answer is it depends.

What school?
How well you do?
What market?

I lived in Michigan. If you were going to try somewhere in Michigan, I would not think you would have a problem.

Chicago = if you went to Illinois, you would be fine. Chicago or Northwestern? You might have a issue

So, I would recommend, going to the regional school in the state you want to work in.

Okay, now I think you are trolling. OP shouldn't go to UChi or NU without ties, but Illinois is a good choice? Is that what you are saying?

[03152016]

bc and bu are still regionals, and are far from a guarantee of biglaw. you didn't say in your op what the "higher price" would be, but if you're biglaw or bust, i can assure you it's not worth it
don't presume you'll do well 1L. everyone thinks they'll be at the top of the class and the vast majority are wrong. if you want biglaw, go to a school that places well in biglaw. if you can't get into a school that places well in biglaw, retake. if you can't retake, don't go. it's as simple as that.

@lawschoolbound
uh, no
c/nu > uiuc for chi placement, regardless of ties
no idea what you're talking about

[Ron Don Volante]

Honestly, the answer is it depends.

What school?
How well you do?
What market?

I lived in Michigan. If you were going to try somewhere in Michigan, I would not think you would have a problem.

Chicago = if you went to Illinois, you would be fine. Chicago or Northwestern? You might have a issue

So, I would recommend, going to the regional school in the state you want to work in.

this is just terrible. where are you possibly getting these ideas from?

[BigZuck]

I could maybe see an argument where someone without IL ties would be better off at Illinois rather than UChi or NU if they were Chicago or bust. I guess the logic would be that if they went to CHI/NU they might be looked at as an outsider trying to get back home/NYC, whereas if they went to Illinois obviously they are committed to work in Illunois cuz duh, that's the only market the school places in.

Not sure that's a very good argument but that's all I can think of.

[pamphleteer]

I could maybe see an argument where someone without IL ties would be better off at Illinois rather than UChi or NU if they were Chicago or bust. I guess the logic would be that if they went to CHI/NU they might be looked at as an outsider trying to get back home/NYC, whereas if they went to Illinois obviously they are committed to work in Illunois cuz duh, that's the only market the school places in.

Not sure that's a very good argument but that's all I can think of.

Is Chicago really insular enough for ties to matter to that degree though? (Honest question, I have no idea)