UChicago vs. Columbia

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UnicornHunter
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby UnicornHunter » Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:41 pm

Honestly, if you get into CC but not HYS, it probably makes the most sense to go to NU or whatever T14 gives you the most money. So neither.

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utahraptor
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby utahraptor » Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:49 pm

skers wrote:Just looking at big law hiring I think the NY market may give you better options and may be easier coming from UChicago. I know it sounds like taipeimort trolling to some, but Uchi has shown a pretty consistent ability to land median kids at top NY firms that seems to basically require at least Stone from Columbia. Since NY is a second option for a lot of UChi kids, you get a lot of flexibility that way. Idk the specifics of hiring from Columbia to UChi, but I'd guess it's probably easier to stay in Chicago from UChi as well.

I do think this is taipeimort trolling. I think there's a bump for some places (specifically SullCrom seems to love UChi, make of that what you will) but there are other firms that have disproportionate amounts of CLS students or NYU students. Maybe it's the recruiters, maybe it is something else, but I think that it's only a couple of firms that really give a "bump" to UChi, and the firms that give a bump to CLS/NYU are less visible because NY is the primary market they place into. (PW and Proskauer come to mind)

Mal Reynolds
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:56 pm

utahraptor wrote:
skers wrote:Just looking at big law hiring I think the NY market may give you better options and may be easier coming from UChicago. I know it sounds like taipeimort trolling to some, but Uchi has shown a pretty consistent ability to land median kids at top NY firms that seems to basically require at least Stone from Columbia. Since NY is a second option for a lot of UChi kids, you get a lot of flexibility that way. Idk the specifics of hiring from Columbia to UChi, but I'd guess it's probably easier to stay in Chicago from UChi as well.

I do think this is taipeimort trolling. I think there's a bump for some places (specifically SullCrom seems to love UChi, make of that what you will) but there are other firms that have disproportionate amounts of CLS students or NYU students. Maybe it's the recruiters, maybe it is something else, but I think that it's only a couple of firms that really give a "bump" to UChi, and the firms that give a bump to CLS/NYU are less visible because NY is the primary market they place into. (PW and Proskauer come to mind)


Self selection of U Chicago students out of NYC is huge. So that makes it seem like we can't get NYC jobs, when what it really does is help those people who want them.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:57 pm

Hey mal what percentage of the class do u think could land NYC biglaw?

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ballcaps
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby ballcaps » Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:59 pm

flockavelli wrote:I would go as far as suggesting that a HY/SC/CN grouping is defensible.


defend, please

Mal Reynolds
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:07 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:Hey mal what percentage of the class do u think could land NYC biglaw?


I dunno, the answer would probably change if more U Chicago people actually wanted it. But I know of a lot of highly ranked firms that dip down into the median ranges for U Chicago students, and below median students are definitely not out of the running in any way for firms just outside of those highly ranked firms. In fact someone was telling me the partner at their V10 told him he wanted more U Chicago students. I would feel pretty comfortable coming here for NYC biglaw if the money was right.

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utahraptor
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby utahraptor » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:14 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:
utahraptor wrote:
skers wrote:Just looking at big law hiring I think the NY market may give you better options and may be easier coming from UChicago. I know it sounds like taipeimort trolling to some, but Uchi has shown a pretty consistent ability to land median kids at top NY firms that seems to basically require at least Stone from Columbia. Since NY is a second option for a lot of UChi kids, you get a lot of flexibility that way. Idk the specifics of hiring from Columbia to UChi, but I'd guess it's probably easier to stay in Chicago from UChi as well.

I do think this is taipeimort trolling. I think there's a bump for some places (specifically SullCrom seems to love UChi, make of that what you will) but there are other firms that have disproportionate amounts of CLS students or NYU students. Maybe it's the recruiters, maybe it is something else, but I think that it's only a couple of firms that really give a "bump" to UChi, and the firms that give a bump to CLS/NYU are less visible because NY is the primary market they place into. (PW and Proskauer come to mind)


Self selection of U Chicago students out of NYC is huge. So that makes it seem like we can't get NYC jobs, when what it really does is help those people who want them.


I think y'all can get NYC jobs just fine. I just think differences in grade cutoffs from firms vary by firm. They are inconsistent between CLS and NYU, so trotting out the "you can get S&C without honors" thing seems pretty meaningless to me.

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skers
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby skers » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:20 pm

utahraptor wrote:
skers wrote:Just looking at big law hiring I think the NY market may give you better options and may be easier coming from UChicago. I know it sounds like taipeimort trolling to some, but Uchi has shown a pretty consistent ability to land median kids at top NY firms that seems to basically require at least Stone from Columbia. Since NY is a second option for a lot of UChi kids, you get a lot of flexibility that way. Idk the specifics of hiring from Columbia to UChi, but I'd guess it's probably easier to stay in Chicago from UChi as well.

I do think this is taipeimort trolling. I think there's a bump for some places (specifically SullCrom seems to love UChi, make of that what you will) but there are other firms that have disproportionate amounts of CLS students or NYU students. Maybe it's the recruiters, maybe it is something else, but I think that it's only a couple of firms that really give a "bump" to UChi, and the firms that give a bump to CLS/NYU are less visible because NY is the primary market they place into. (PW and Proskauer come to mind)


I think it's hard to tell for sure, but I think it's really just a numbers game and most people people at Columbia/NYU are targeting NY whereas the same isn't the case for UChicago, which just makes things favorable. Paul, Weiss offered a bunch of people my year and only one dude accepted. A hiring partner I talked to during OCI said they have to throw out a bunch of offers b/c the yield is like 10% or so and when you're talking about offering like 15%+ of the class or so for most of the big NY names, you end up w/ a pretty favorable hiring situation. I'm sure there are other upsides to the NY market to just being at NYU/CLS, but the numbers game at UChi for NY seems to be a plus.

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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:22 pm

I don't think "you can get most, if not all, of the NYC v20, minus Boies, WLRK, and Quinn (but LOL at ever wanting that firm) from median" is a very meaningless statement. You guys have slightly higher biglaw percentage overall, so I probably agree that the differences are a wash. But there's a chance they aren't.

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skers
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby skers » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:24 pm

I should add that NY firms were legitimately worried during offer season this year that they would get enough Uchi people to accept. I don't think that ever/will ever happen at CLS.

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utahraptor
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby utahraptor » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:30 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:I don't think "you can get most, if not all, of the NYC v20, minus Boies, WLRK, and Quinn (but LOL at ever wanting that firm) from median" is a very meaningless statement. You guys have slightly higher biglaw percentage overall, so I probably agree that the differences are a wash. But there's a chance they aren't.


you get that what you're saying is that

"well, the numbers say, in the aggregate I'm wrong, but there's a chance I'm right!"

This isn't meant to be anti UChi. I think a person is silly silly silly if they don't follow the money between NYU/CLS/UChi if they're OK with NYC, and that they should probably go to UChi or NU if they want Chicago.

skers wrote:I should add that NY firms were legitimately worried during offer season this year that they would get enough Uchi people to accept. I don't think that ever/will ever happen at CLS.


It just manifests in different ways. I'd wager that some of those same firms were the ones that dipped lower for grades last year/the ones that hired a large number of CLS 3Ls.

and re: the grades thing, the thing is the only firms that you didn't include that need the grades from CLS are Cravath, Gibson, S&C and PW

maybe you're right that those are easier to get from UChi, but it would be interesting to see what happens after they get their token UChi students and more people wanted to go there, I'd be interested in knowing that those firms are actually commonly gotten from median, &c.

About half of the V20 is available without honors at CLS/NYU. They're all about the same.

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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:34 pm

I'm saying the aggregate doesn't necessarily paint the picture either of us are advocating for. There can be self selection issues and the like. Also I just admitted that same thing, the advantage might only exist because there is a perception that U Chicago students don't want NYC and I have heard from multiple sources that the firms notice that disconnect.

kingpin101
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby kingpin101 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:37 pm

OP you're just going to have to choice between your own gut feelings and actual sound logic.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:24 pm

utahraptor wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:I don't think "you can get most, if not all, of the NYC v20, minus Boies, WLRK, and Quinn (but LOL at ever wanting that firm) from median" is a very meaningless statement. You guys have slightly higher biglaw percentage overall, so I probably agree that the differences are a wash. But there's a chance they aren't.


you get that what you're saying is that

"well, the numbers say, in the aggregate I'm wrong, but there's a chance I'm right!"

I wouldn't be surprised if it's just that a lot of students at UChi will take striking out over working in NYC. Dumb as that sounds.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:25 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
utahraptor wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:I don't think "you can get most, if not all, of the NYC v20, minus Boies, WLRK, and Quinn (but LOL at ever wanting that firm) from median" is a very meaningless statement. You guys have slightly higher biglaw percentage overall, so I probably agree that the differences are a wash. But there's a chance they aren't.


you get that what you're saying is that

"well, the numbers say, in the aggregate I'm wrong, but there's a chance I'm right!"

I wouldn't be surprised if it's just that a lot of students at UChi will take striking out over working in NYC. Dumb as that sounds.


I know of at least one person who did this.

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utahraptor
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby utahraptor » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:25 pm

it's an explanation, at least

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UnicornHunter
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby UnicornHunter » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:30 pm

utahraptor wrote:About half of the V20 is available without honors at CLS/NYU. They're all about the same.


They're similar enough that $$$ should really be the only thing that matters, and $$$ at a lower T-14 will be better than sticker at either.

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utahraptor
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby utahraptor » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:32 pm

TheUnicornHunter wrote:
utahraptor wrote:About half of the V20 is available without honors at CLS/NYU. They're all about the same.


They're fungible enough that $$$ should really be the only thing that matters, and $$$ at a lower T-14 will be better than sticker at either.

agreed, but you're wrong above assuming it's always an option

sometimes the best school you get into also gives you the most money

it is a mystery

Mal Reynolds
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:33 pm

I guess that's my overall point as well, but the specifics of U Chicago's OCI are interesting.

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UnicornHunter
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby UnicornHunter » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:41 pm

utahraptor wrote:
TheUnicornHunter wrote:
utahraptor wrote:About half of the V20 is available without honors at CLS/NYU. They're all about the same.


They're fungible enough that $$$ should really be the only thing that matters, and $$$ at a lower T-14 will be better than sticker at either.

agreed, but you're wrong above assuming it's always an option

sometimes the best school you get into also gives you the most money

it is a mystery


Fair point. But still, I think OP's "if I don't get into HYS I'm going C or C" attitude is stupid.

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2014
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby 2014 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:43 pm

Absent personal circumstances (aversion to 7 years at U of C may qualify, more often SO w/ great job in NYC) or a money differential well in favor of Columbia, I find it really hard to argue it over UChi. I suppose a tunnel focus on the like 6 NY firms that don't come to our OCI (Cahill, Kaye, Kramer, Schulte, Orrick, Wilkie, ???) might qualify too. If you are sadistic enough to want a NY V20 you have better odds coming out of here than any other school.

Fortunately plenty of bros are fighting my good fight for me here so I'll keep the shilling to a reasonable level.

(Thinking out loud that I should just go ahead and make a "Why you should choose UChicago over any other school" thread - it's pretty damn defensible tbh)

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:57 pm

When I said OP should have tossed Chicago in with Yale in his tiered rankings I was just covering for 2014 until he came back.

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2014
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby 2014 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:05 am

:lol:

I can make the UChi over Yale argument (admittedly w/ a couple extra conditions) with a completely straight face. I just don't get the chance to very often :(

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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:06 am

2014 wrote::lol:

I can make the UChi over Yale argument (admittedly w/ a couple extra conditions) with a completely straight face. I just don't get the chance to very often :(


Do it pls

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UnicornHunter
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Re: UChicago vs. Columbia

Postby UnicornHunter » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:12 am

Mack.Hambleton wrote:
2014 wrote::lol:

I can make the UChi over Yale argument (admittedly w/ a couple extra conditions) with a completely straight face. I just don't get the chance to very often :(


Do it pls




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