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nick417 wrote:Too many times these conversations turn into individual experiences, which are simply not helpful to a 0 L making a tough decision to attend law school. Law school is a risk, like gambling is a risk. Therefore, generalities about how to be successful or who is successful is more helpful then individual experiences. Example: If I told you to play video poker because I was just dealt a Royal Flush, is that helpful information? OR if I told you to play video poker because your return on investment is close to 99%, compared to 90% at a slot machine. Which is more helpful information?

nick417 wrote:Too many times these conversations turn into individual experiences, which are simply not helpful to a 0 L making a tough decision to attend law school. Law school is a risk, like gambling is a risk. Therefore, generalities about how to be successful or who is successful is more helpful then individual experiences. Example: If I told you to play video poker because I was just dealt a Royal Flush, is that helpful information? OR if I told you to play video poker because your return on investment is close to 99%, compared to 90% at a slot machine. Which is more helpful information?

nick417 wrote:Also, If grades are even remotely random, then logic dictates there would be no one with 4.0's, or even close to that. But yet, there are. Somehow, a group of students get "A's" and "A-" in every single class they take. I guess that is just random.....

nick417 wrote:By the way, "Hard working" doesn't mean hours your put in. It means knowing the material. Do you know the material better than everyone else in your school. The ones who are at the top of the class tend to work harder at knowing the material better than everyone else.

nick417 wrote:Too many times these conversations turn into individual experiences, which are simply not helpful to a 0 L making a tough decision to attend law school. Law school is a risk, like gambling is a risk. Therefore, generalities about how to be successful or who is successful is more helpful then individual experiences. Example: If I told you to play video poker because I was just dealt a Royal Flush, is that helpful information? OR if I told you to play video poker because your return on investment is close to 99%, compared to 90% at a slot machine. Which is more helpful information?

Also, If grades are even remotely random, then logic dictates there would be no one with 4.0's, or even close to that. But yet, there are. Somehow, a group of students get "A's" and "A-" in every single class they take. I guess that is just random.....

This "snow flake" example thing is also easily explainable: individuals don't realize they aren't as hard working or prepared for law school (i.e., the "snow flake") until they get here. Once here, a line is drawn between the ones who are prepared versus the ones who are not. By the way, "Hard working" doesn't mean hours your put in. It means knowing the material. Do you know the material better than everyone else in your school. The ones who are at the top of the class tend to work harder at knowing the material better than everyone else. Just because you "work hard" doesn't mean you have "worked harder" at knowing the material better than everyone else.

As for job prospects, we are talking in generalities. But, at my school, your job prospects are in correlation with your grades. Special circumstances play a role, but highers grades = higher job opportunities. Since my premise is grades are dictated by working harder at knowing the material than everyone else, my conclusion is the hardest workers succeed more often.

nick417 wrote:Too many times these conversations turn into individual experiences, which are simply not helpful to a 0 L making a tough decision to attend law school. Law school is a risk, like gambling is a risk. Therefore, generalities about how to be successful or who is successful is more helpful then individual experiences. Example: If I told you to play video poker because I was just dealt a Royal Flush, is that helpful information? OR if I told you to play video poker because your return on investment is close to 99%, compared to 90% at a slot machine. Which is more helpful information?

Also, If grades are even remotely random, then logic dictates there would be no one with 4.0's, or even close to that. But yet, there are. Somehow, a group of students get "A's" and "A-" in every single class they take. I guess that is just random.....

This "snow flake" example thing is also easily explainable: individuals don't realize they aren't as hard working or prepared for law school (i.e., the "snow flake") until they get here. Once here, a line is drawn between the ones who are prepared versus the ones who are not. By the way, "Hard working" doesn't mean hours your put in. It means knowing the material. Do you know the material better than everyone else in your school. The ones who are at the top of the class tend to work harder at knowing the material better than everyone else. Just because you "work hard" doesn't mean you have "worked harder" at knowing the material better than everyone else.

As for job prospects, we are talking in generalities. But, at my school, your job prospects are in correlation with your grades. Special circumstances play a role, but highers grades = higher job opportunities. Since my premise is grades are dictated by working harder at knowing the material than everyone else, my conclusion is the hardest workers succeed more often.

fats provolone wrote:actually i think the best indicator of law school success is how good you are at TLS

lot of similar skills

fats provolone wrote:guys, law school grades can't be random. the universe is deterministic.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

Arad wrote:

bjsesq wrote:

onionz wrote:But the idea that it's totally random or you individually only have 10% to be top 10% is wrong. You should know yourself and what you can commit to. This is not to give hope to what I think is well-described "special snowflake" syndrome. As has been repeated-there are a lot of smart kids with similar credentials around you. Typically you can't just turn it on and be someone else if that's not your MO.

How in the blue fuck can you possibly assess your ability to compete before you've even stepped in the ring?

Young padawan, you are right in assuming you can't assess your ability to compete in an academic manner, but you can pretty accurately assess your social skills. I created an algorithm to help people like you determine whether or not you have what it takes socially

If:
-you've been turned down by every girl you've ever tried to pull
-your "crew" looks like they could be the cast of the Big Bang Theory
-you're saltier than the Dead Sea
-you get nervous conversing with new people/your crush
-you're just ugly (repulsive is more approriate)
-your mom picks your clothes still
-you don't have the confidence to approach new people (especially those of higher stature than you)
-you've banged under 10 girls (and tried over 150 times)
-you are a depressing person to be around (If you're as cynical as you are on these forums in real life, this probably applies to you)
-you complain too much (aka annoying b_tch)
-people don't have a tendency to gravitate towards you

AND

-your grades are mediocre:

You are probably getting knocked out in the first round

Dude, this is an extremely stupid post. All it does is encourage 0Ls to think, "I'M not a social loser, I won't have any problems at all!" And that's not how it works.

(I'm not saying social skills don't play a role in getting a job. I'm saying that not getting a job doesn't say anything about someone's social skills.)

Also, you seem to assume you're only talking to heterosexual men.

thisone2014 wrote:

notgreat wrote:Don't know if grades are random, but based on the evidence and anecdotal experience you cannot predict how you will do. I went to a top 20 UG, all my classes were curved because it was a technical major and I was top 5%. 99th percentile LSAT. Got well below median pwned first semester (like 20th percentile owned) despite working 65 hours a week and maybe more. Did almost no work second semester of 1L and was top third. Good luck in predicting how you will do.

These responses make sense, but I wasn't saying that I think 0Ls can predict how they will do based on UG/LSAT. i was more saying that it seems law school exams are a) very high pressure b) a very specific learned skill c) not always correlated to time spent studying d) subjective, insofar as they are graded based on the professor's preferences. But none of those things suggests to me that they are any more "random" than curved tests some people take in UG, which are often equally subjective.

thisone2014 wrote:These responses make sense, but I wasn't saying that I think 0Ls can predict how they will do based on UG/LSAT. i was more saying that it seems law school exams are a) very high pressure b) a very specific learned skill c) not always correlated to time spent studying d) subjective, insofar as they are graded based on the professor's preferences. But none of those things suggests to me that they are any more "random" than curved tests some people take in UG, which are often equally subjective.

FairchildFLT wrote:If a 0L is dumb enough to base their assessment of their ability to competently navigate law school based off of a post on TLS, they probably have some other issues coming their way.

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:This board overestimates how arbitrary law school grades are
yes, you may work hard and underperform
however, if you are above both 75th percentiles and are a decent/strong writer you have a much better than 1/10 chance of being top 10%
the best mindset is to take nothing for granted and keep working hard all three years
also, only attend law school if you are able to get into a T14 or for free somewhere

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:This board overestimates how arbitrary law school grades are
yes, you may work hard and underperform
however, if you are above both 75th percentiles and are a decent/strong writer you have a much better than 1/10 chance of being top 10%
the best mindset is to take nothing for granted and keep working hard all three years
also, only attend law school if you are able to get into a T14 or for free somewhere

Desert Fox wrote:D) the material is easy. No concept in law school is difficult to understand. So good luck standing out when competing against other people with similar skills. It would be like if Math School was just who could do the most multiplication and addition problems in 3 hours.