Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

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rpupkin
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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby rpupkin » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:35 pm

Moneytrees wrote:It's not my strawman. I'm not saying only 40% of trying, like the guy above me. I have no idea what percentage it is. But a lot of people on these boards assume it's the vast majority, and I'm not so sure about that. Maybe at the T14, probably not at the rest of the T1.

The observation that follows is based on anecdotes (like pretty much everything else ITT), but I've noticed that the gunning is far worse outside the T14. A T14 student at median still has a decent chance at a job that can pay off loans. For a T1 student to have that same chance, he or she generally needs to be top 10% or better. I think that students, overall, study harder outside the T14.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:47 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:It's not my strawman. I'm not saying only 40% of trying, like the guy above me. I have no idea what percentage it is. But a lot of people on these boards assume it's the vast majority, and I'm not so sure about that. Maybe at the T14, probably not at the rest of the T1.

The observation that follows is based on anecdotes (like pretty much everything else ITT), but I've noticed that the gunning is far worse outside the T14. A T14 student at median still has a decent chance at a job that can pay off loans. For a T1 student to have that same chance, he or she generally needs to be top 10% or better. I think that students, overall, study harder outside the T14.


At the mid- to low-T14s, I think there is a subset of students, maybe 25-50%, who study just as hard as students at any other law school. This subset makes it difficult to crack the top 10% by out-studying everyone else. Thus, I think it is just as difficult to crack the top 10% at a non-HYS T14 as it is at any other law school, but I think it may be easier to get/maintain median grades.

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby Moneytrees » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:53 pm

ymmv wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:It's not my strawman. I'm not saying only 40% of trying, like the guy above me. I have no idea what percentage it is. But a lot of people on these boards assume it's the vast majority, and I'm not so sure about that. Maybe at the T14, probably not at the rest of the T1.


Ok since you apparently can't read your own posts:

Moneytrees wrote:I will say that there seems to be a current of thought on TLS that goes something like this: "at every T1, every student is gunning for top 10% and studying incessantly"


Nobody says these things. If you don't want people to call you out on your bullshit reductionism, don't do it in the first place.


It's at least implied numerous times throughout this thread.

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby ymmv » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:54 pm

Moneytrees wrote:
ymmv wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:It's not my strawman. I'm not saying only 40% of trying, like the guy above me. I have no idea what percentage it is. But a lot of people on these boards assume it's the vast majority, and I'm not so sure about that. Maybe at the T14, probably not at the rest of the T1.


Ok since you apparently can't read your own posts:

Moneytrees wrote:I will say that there seems to be a current of thought on TLS that goes something like this: "at every T1, every student is gunning for top 10% and studying incessantly"


Nobody says these things. If you don't want people to call you out on your bullshit reductionism, don't do it in the first place.


It's at least implied numerous times throughout this thread.


You people keep saying shit like this but I don't see the evidence. And if anyone anywhere is implying this it's obviously patently stupid and not worth engaging.

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby Moneytrees » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:58 pm

ymmv wrote:
Moneytrees wrote:It's not my strawman. I'm not saying only 40% of trying, like the guy above me. I have no idea what percentage it is. But a lot of people on these boards assume it's the vast majority, and I'm not so sure about that. Maybe at the T14, probably not at the rest of the T1.


Ok since you apparently can't read your own posts:

Moneytrees wrote:I will say that there seems to be a current of thought on TLS that goes something like this: "at every T1, every student is gunning for top 10% and studying incessantly"


Nobody says these things. If you don't want people to call you out on your bullshit reductionism, don't do it in the first place.


People actually do say this. It's very strongly implied throughout this thread as well.

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cal2013
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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby cal2013 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:00 pm

0L here, so take my anecdote with a pillar of salt.

My undergrad program was run by a T14 law school (all the professors taught at the law school, same administration, and same grading curve). If law school exam grading is anything like my program's was, then random is a great word to describe it. You could put an exam that got an "A" right next to one that got a "B-" and not be able to identify which got which grade. It's almost like they just pulled grades from a hat.

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby JCougar » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:26 pm

MagicMike80 wrote:Anecdotally, I'd say around 40% of people legitimately try as hard as 0Ls imagine they are going to try.


This wasn't accurate at my school. It was much higher than this. People didn't gun in class, but I feel like this number was closer to 80% when you factored in who was doing around 4 hours of studying per night, who was prepared for class, who was doing study groups, etc.

Of course, my school was a known trap school, and everyone kind of knew that they had to really hustle to be eligible for Biglaw.

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby twenty » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:30 pm

0Ls reading this thread need to understand before anything else that "hard work", whether at a T1 or at Harvard, is not predictive of your overall grades. The whole idea of "studying hard" is ridiculously illusory, and a great way to justify a burnout halfway through your first semester.

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby romothesavior » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:32 pm

Why is this thread still going

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rpupkin
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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby rpupkin » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:34 pm

romothesavior wrote:Why is this thread still going

It's because the thread itself is vying to become the "most horrifying thread on TLS." Very meta.

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby gotsnork2 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:05 pm

I skimmed through this thread while bored at work today, and I showed it my office mate who responded: "Wow, that's either the dumbest, most trite thing I've ever read or it's perfectly indicative of why no one likes lawyers." She's not applying to law school, FYI.

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:44 pm

romothesavior wrote:Why is this thread still going

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby 2014 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:02 am

romothesavior wrote:Why is this thread still going

I wondered this 3 weeks ago I'm stunned it's still a thing. Unfortunately it's like click bait because the title seems interesting and has nothing to do with the content STILL.

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby bjsesq » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:30 am

romothesavior wrote:Why is this thread still going

Because you didn't lock it, ya pussy.

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Pragmatic Gun
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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:37 pm

gotsnork2 wrote:I skimmed through this thread while bored at work today, and I showed it my office mate who responded: "Wow, that's either the dumbest, most trite thing I've ever read or it's perfectly indicative of why no one likes lawyers." She's not applying to law school, FYI.


Which part of the thread provoked this reaction?

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby JCougar » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:14 pm

gotsnork2 wrote:I skimmed through this thread while bored at work today, and I showed it my office mate who responded: "Wow, that's either the dumbest, most trite thing I've ever read or it's perfectly indicative of why no one likes lawyers." She's not applying to law school, FYI.


Sounds like she's making a very wise decision.

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:47 pm

JCougar wrote:
gotsnork2 wrote:I skimmed through this thread while bored at work today, and I showed it my office mate who responded: "Wow, that's either the dumbest, most trite thing I've ever read or it's perfectly indicative of why no one likes lawyers." She's not applying to law school, FYI.


Sounds like she's making a very wise decision.

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby gotsnork2 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:04 pm

Pragmatic Gun wrote:
gotsnork2 wrote:I skimmed through this thread while bored at work today, and I showed it my office mate who responded: "Wow, that's either the dumbest, most trite thing I've ever read or it's perfectly indicative of why no one likes lawyers." She's not applying to law school, FYI.


Which part of the thread provoked this reaction?


Nothing in particular--kind of the whole thing together.

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:33 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Why is this thread still going


we have nothing better to do bro

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Pragmatic Gun
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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:35 pm

This thread has become the awkward exchange of stares one sees on "The Office".

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:36 pm

Btw, this subforum is 60% "don't go to law school". Have we jumped the shark?

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby JCougar » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:50 pm

Pragmatic Gun wrote:Btw, this subforum is 60% "don't go to law school". Have we jumped the shark?


Nah, the legal field is a pretty miserable one full of stress, poverty, and unfulfilled dreams. Even the good jobs are a lot of rote busywork and there's so many people that desperately want them that you can be fired and replaced on a whim. And even if you're not fired, some partners that happen to be tyrannical assholes know this and figure "who cares if this person quits, we'll just get another." So they may not fire you, but they'll act like a mini-Caligula in the office until you get sick of it and quit.

Way, way too many people competing for a very finite set of jobs.

100 law schools need to be forced to close before things get any better. So far, there's only Hamline and one of Cooley's many campuses. There's a lot more work to be done!

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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby gotsnork2 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:57 pm

Pragmatic Gun wrote:This thread has become the awkward exchange of stares one sees on "The Office".


Haha! Nice imagery.

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cal2013
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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby cal2013 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:57 pm

JCougar wrote:
Pragmatic Gun wrote:Btw, this subforum is 60% "don't go to law school". Have we jumped the shark?


Words

100 law schools need to be forced to close before things get any better. So far, there's only Hamline and one of Cooley's many campuses. There's a lot more work to be done!


Pipe dream :(

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JCougar
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Re: Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS

Postby JCougar » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:21 pm

cal2013 wrote:
JCougar wrote:
Pragmatic Gun wrote:Btw, this subforum is 60% "don't go to law school". Have we jumped the shark?


Words

100 law schools need to be forced to close before things get any better. So far, there's only Hamline and one of Cooley's many campuses. There's a lot more work to be done!


Pipe dream :(


I don't think we'll see anything close to 100, but we are approaching the breaking point where a lot of schools have been running in the red for 2-3 years and there's no sign of a quick turnaround in applicants. Another 2-3 years of this, and I can see about 30-40 of them closing...including a lot of the for-profit ones (thank god).




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