Top Law Schools

Also I never expected to get this much advice, you guys are amazing.

Ron Don Volante wrote:

BigZuck wrote:I think top 25% is pretty optimistic for NY big law. I think it's probably closer to Law Review range grades to get NY big law.

Do we know if the 25% of the class staying in Austin are working as lawyers? I don't think I've ever seen that data, is that internal to the school or something online?

I've heard nothing but glowing reviews about the NYC OCI. All anecdotal obvs, but from what I've heard from a few 2Ls, top quarter or so gives you a real good shot. I'll report back this August.

On Austin: Yes. On my visit I forced the CSO data to pull up the data and manipulate it in from of me. ~25% employed as attorneys in Austin, though I was cautioned that most of the jobs are not of the most prefstigious variety.

Re: NYC job fair

I only personally know a handful who did it. People with better grades did better (unsurprising). I think overall it's much more of a success than I would have expected and I think everyone who is open to NYC should do it. Just seemed like more of the success stories were closer to top 10% than 25% but like I said I only know a few who did it.

Re: Austin

That's interesting. If they have that data they should share it openly IMO

Based on my (again, limited) experience it seemed stuff like working for the AG's office was potentially attainable if you hustled and were willing to put in your dues for a few years in places like Temple.

But the OP was just pulling a place out of nowhere there so that's moot I guess

Um. What's an OP? I know it's me in this case but this is the first forum I've used and every now and then there's a term that just confuses me

I feel kind of bad for starting the Austin thing, but it seems like you all had a decent conversation over it so I guess it's okay haha

westave wrote:Um. What's an OP?

Original poster. In this thread, that would be you.

OP, this is so crazy! I'm also from Philly and I also studied international relations and I also want to work in the international arena. I also speak a few foreign languages myself. I tried my hand at the law thing, but started off with a 158 that I couldn't get higher after months of serious effort, e.g. reading numerous books, taking an online class, and devoting many months to this endeavor full-time. So congrats to you on the very significant 6 point jump! How did you do it??? I'm super jealous; I could not. Had a great GPA from a very good school, but nobody will respect a Bachelor of Arts nowadays and in Philly it's damn hard to find this type of work without a masters. So I'm currently unemployed and considering FSO (maybe you too?).

Actually just today I got a Full-tuition offer from UNH (ranked 93) contingent upon maintaining 3.0 GPA each year. Wish I was in your position instead! Did Temple place any stipulations on your scholarship offer? Do you have to be within a certain top percentage of your class or maintain above a certain gpa to maintain that scholarship? I think these conditions are very important. If it would seem difficult to maintain the Temple scholarship, then you can scrape that option off the table right away.

Being somewhat in your shoes, I will try my hand at your questions. I think that in the grand scheme of things, if you ultimately want to work internationally the name of the law school will have much less influence than your work experiences. But there are exceptions if, one, we're talking about Harvard Yale Stanford (which everyone has heard of, regardless of industry/profession and maybe even country) and if, two, we're talking about doing government work with an international focus. You mentioned you wouldn't mind sticking around this area for a little while. DC law schools would offer the better prospects in this regard because working in international capacity is more plentiful in DC. But of course, government work will not pay extremely well (though I think you can expect 60k with a JD), but you will have to weigh that against how much money DC law will cost you for 3 years. Many of the jobs that seem very interesting on USA jobs and require a law degree (or masters) would seem to not be too picky about which law school you go to as long as you have an advanced degree. Experience would seem to take priority. But I still maintain that going to DC law school would better connect you with that world.

Now if, on the other hand, you don't want to work in government, but still want to have mobility and work in an international arena, then I'm not sure how much help the law degree can be to you. I would think an MBA would be better suited. I mean, it's not like you can practice US law overseas, right? You can work for a US international company. US companies have law departments, but they are headquartered in the US! So most likely, you won't be hired to head, for example, P&G's office in Rio de Janeiro or Lisbon, but to work at the law department in their US HQ. In P&G's case that happens to be in San Francisco, so that outcome is pretty awesome anyway, not to mention that if you get to that job, I'm pretty sure no matter how much you wanna travel, the money will keep you in San Fran. But I hope you get my point here... I don't want to discourage you from pursuing law. You've gotten so far! But if you will humor my curiosity, in your opinion, how would the law degree help with international employment and mobility? What kind of companies or industries would you work in that will afford this mobile lifestyle with your law degree? I can think of government work with the majority of FSO being lawyers, as I hear. But as far as private industry, I'm drawing blanks. These are some of the very questions I've been battling with. It would be nice to hear someone else's perspective.

Remember that law school at sticker price means 200k in debt after 3 years. As much as you'll want to work internationally with your law degree, the debt burden will push you to get the highest paying job out of college. And that does mean going after big law, even if it's not your first choice, which probably will very likely be. It would take enormous willpower to then transition into an international focus job, which would probably come with a pay cut, especially if you have a family five to six years from now. So these are very tough choices. But to conclude, my vote is for DC law if the tuition there isn't overburdening.

Fwiw the people I've heard of at WUSTL getting bites in Philly (and these are people from Philly or PA) are at least top 1/3rd, and you'd want to be higher to make it happen. You'd need much higher than that at Temple to give yourself a shot at Philly biglaw though, and given the size of the market, it's a good home market to have, but you can't really rely on it.