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meggy1993
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby meggy1993 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:52 pm

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Last edited by meggy1993 on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rigo
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby Rigo » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:59 pm

Your situation is high risk no matter how you look at it. You are paying a lot of money for mediocre schools in regions you are not from. Your employment prospects are tenuous no matter which school you pick.
Furthermore, you refuse to retake the LSAT. Even a few points higher can make these schools free. Or you can get into a much better school with several more points. I'm guessing you're somewhere in the mid to high 150's. It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to pick up a few more points on LG if you missed a lot there. Never again in your life will you gain so much from so little effort (studying & retaking).

I don't know what you're looking for here. If your parents are footing the bill or you are fabulously wealthy and won't bat an eye at blowing six figures, then go wherever you want.

I hope you realize from this thread the reality of law school admissions and legal hiring. Moving forward with these options is precarious no matter how you slice it. If you have faith in yourself and believe you deserve a bright future, then earn it. Not retaking is a great disservice.

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Dr. Nefario
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby Dr. Nefario » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:02 pm

meggy1993 wrote:
RaiderRed wrote:He's saying that's its rational and smart to not want to go somewhere with employment that low, but it's also rational and smart not to spend $120,000 on a place where your employment prospects are only slightly better than that.




True. I mean law school is what I want to do. I want to practice law, but I also want to get a job--maybe that's just not feasible?


It's feasible, you just have to take the same rationality that got you to that conclusion and apply it to every aspect of determining law school. If you already have a job and can fight with hating it one more year, keep it, study enough to get your LSAT up a few points and you can go off to either of theses schools not worrying about debt and only about doing well enough to get that job you want. Law school is a gamble in the current market and really just needs to be approached like you would if you were to bet a ton of money on a handle of hold em. Just evaluate every outcome rationally and see what makes the most sense to you.

jphiggo
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby jphiggo » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:38 pm

OU is a great school if you're from Oklahoma or the surrounding area and want to stay in Oklahoma (primarily) or in the surrounding area. I would be a little scared at coming here without any ties whatsoever, however. Oklahoma is a small market. You're going to need to come up with a good reason to come to Oklahoma and it ain't for tourism or the scenery. You're going to need to be able to convince employers of that reason. You're going to need to be able to convince yourself, as well.

I imagine all of the above can be said about Iowa, as well.

I also think retake is the best option for you. If you do well on a retake and still want to go to Iowa or Oklahoma, you still can and you'll get to do it for less than before.
Last edited by jphiggo on Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

meggy1993
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby meggy1993 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:46 pm

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Last edited by meggy1993 on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jphiggo
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby jphiggo » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:53 pm

meggy1993 wrote:
jphiggo wrote:OU is a great school if you're from Oklahoma or the surrounding area and what to stay in Oklahoma (primarily) or in the surrounding area. I would be a little scared at coming here without any ties whatsoever, however. Oklahoma is a small market. You're going to need to come up with a good reason to come to Oklahoma and it ain't for tourism or the scenery. You're going to need to be able to convince employers of that reason. You're going to need to be able to convince yourself, as well.

I imagine all of the above can be said about Iowa, as well.

I also think retake is the best option for you. If you do well on a retake and still want to go to Iowa or Oklahoma, you still can and you'll get to do it for less than before.


I'm not worried about my ties in Oklahoma--they are very strong.


Good to hear. :)

BigZuck
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby BigZuck » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:29 pm

meggy1993 wrote:
jphiggo wrote:OU is a great school if you're from Oklahoma or the surrounding area and what to stay in Oklahoma (primarily) or in the surrounding area. I would be a little scared at coming here without any ties whatsoever, however. Oklahoma is a small market. You're going to need to come up with a good reason to come to Oklahoma and it ain't for tourism or the scenery. You're going to need to be able to convince employers of that reason. You're going to need to be able to convince yourself, as well.

I imagine all of the above can be said about Iowa, as well.

I also think retake is the best option for you. If you do well on a retake and still want to go to Iowa or Oklahoma, you still can and you'll get to do it for less than before.


I'm not worried about my ties in Oklahoma--they are very strong.


If the ties are just your significant other and you haven't lived there yourself then I wouldn't classify that as very strong. Just kinda moderate, I'm guessing a good number of employers will still view you with distrust. Might also depend on where you are from too. Given that it's anothet flyover state that's good. If you were from one of the coasts that would probably be even more of an uphill battle.

I'd really be careful about underestimating how much small firms in particular care about hiring their own.

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hoos89
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby hoos89 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:38 pm

I go to school in St. Louis. One of my friends is originally from another country, but grew up in St. Louis, went to high school and undergrad here, is currently going to law school at WUSTL, and his family lives here. He still gets questions about why St. Louis. Do not underestimate how difficult it is to crack insular markets. As Zuck mentioned, just having a spouse from here is not necessarily enough to satisfy many employers. Perhaps that would be good enough in a market like Chicago or LA, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if OKC or Tulsa firms looked at you with some measure of skepticism.


Also, you mentioned that you hate your current job and that seems to be a big factor in your decision not to retake the LSAT. However, you should realize that there is a significant chance that you will hate whatever job you get out of law school. Seriously, what makes you think that will be so much better? Some people actually enjoy practicing law, but a significant chunk of lawyers hate what they do.

Also, there really is so little cost to retaking the LSAT. You don't have to withdraw your apps right now; you could apply to take the June test and just see what happens. If you don't raise your score, no harm done. If you go up a couple points then maybe you can get a bigger scholarship. If you go up into the mid to upper 160s, then you can withdraw and reapply next cycle with MUCH better results. I doubt 1L will suck much less than your current job, and there's a pretty good chance that any job you will get out of Iowa or Oklahoma will suck too (without paying a whole lot either).

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DaRascal
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby DaRascal » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:51 pm

So you're saying I'm way better off going to Seton Hall, St. John's or Cardozo with huge $$$ as opposed to Iowa with a full ride just because of ties? Is the legal field just one big cafeteria full of unwelcoming cliques? :shock:

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hoos89
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby hoos89 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:13 pm

DaRascal wrote:So you're saying I'm way better off going to Seton Hall, St. John's or Cardozo with huge $$$ as opposed to Iowa with a full ride just because of ties? Is the legal field just one big cafeteria full of unwelcoming cliques? :shock:


Just because you probably shouldn't go to Iowa because you don't have ties there does not mean that you should go to Seton Hall, St. John's or Cardozo. And yes...the legal field is pretty much a big cafeteria of unwelcoming cliques. Law firms don't want to invest a ton of money training some random dude from a coastal state only to have him bolt for home right after he becomes profitable. They'd also rather hire their friend's nephew than some random dude who doesn't know anyone they know.
Last edited by hoos89 on Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DaRascal
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby DaRascal » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:15 pm

hoos89 wrote:
DaRascal wrote:So you're saying I'm way better off going to Seton Hall, St. John's or Cardozo with huge $$$ as opposed to Iowa with a full ride just because of ties? Is the legal field just one big cafeteria full of unwelcoming cliques? :shock:


Just because you probably shouldn't go to Iowa because you don't have ties there does not mean that you should go to Seton Hall, St. John's or Cardozo.



So basically get into a T14 or move to Vegas. LOLLife. :P

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hoos89
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby hoos89 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:15 pm

That's not what I said at all. Big difference between T14 or bust and "maybe don't go to St. John's, Seton Hall, or Cardozo."

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romothesavior
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:21 pm

meggy1993 wrote:But, this forum is basically famous for saying if you don't go a T14 school then go to a school in the state you want to work at. Not sure I agree with that.

Virtually every current student and recently-graduated practicing lawyer will tell you this, but you think we are all wrong because...?

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DaRascal
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby DaRascal » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:27 pm

hoos89 wrote:That's not what I said at all. Big difference between T14 or bust and "maybe don't go to St. John's, Seton Hall, or Cardozo."


From all my years on TLS, this is the hierarchical model of law school matriculation I've grown accustomed to:

1) HYS
2) T14 with at least half of COA covered by scholarships and/or family contributions
3) T1 with a full ride in the state you grew up in
4) T14 sticker price
5) T2, T3, or T4 with full ride and no scholarship stipulations if you have been relegated to a job at Wal-Mart because you majored in psychology in college.


Seems like the whole law school game isn't all that hard to figure out. :?

BigZuck
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby BigZuck » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:29 pm

DaRascal wrote:
hoos89 wrote:
DaRascal wrote:So you're saying I'm way better off going to Seton Hall, St. John's or Cardozo with huge $$$ as opposed to Iowa with a full ride just because of ties? Is the legal field just one big cafeteria full of unwelcoming cliques? :shock:


Just because you probably shouldn't go to Iowa because you don't have ties there does not mean that you should go to Seton Hall, St. John's or Cardozo.



So basically get into a T14 or move to Vegas. LOLLife. :P


Did a mod let this rascal out of his cage or did he sneak out hoping nobody would notice?

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deadpanic
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby deadpanic » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:43 pm

meggy1993 wrote:
ilikebaseball wrote:Sorry if I missed it, but why is retake not an option? I mean, if it REALLY isn't, then its a no to Iowa. Its not worth it. OU isn't worth it even at ISS, but probably to a lesser extent than OSS at Iowa


And go through this process again? To apply to what school? In the hopes I get into a top 14 school? :/


Wow, you are really going to LOVE practicing law if you think the application process is tedious and a lot of work.

No one is saying you have to go to a T14; people are telling you not to go to random state flagships (especially at a big cost) with no ties. It sounds like you are (or at least were) dead set on Iowa because of its mysterious "T30" ranking. We are letting you know that it is really no better than OU. I went to a state flagship and can tell you that most people that went here with no ties are still unemployed, doing doc review or employed in some sort of non-legal job.

Good luck.

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romothesavior
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:53 pm

deadpanic wrote:
meggy1993 wrote:
ilikebaseball wrote:Sorry if I missed it, but why is retake not an option? I mean, if it REALLY isn't, then its a no to Iowa. Its not worth it. OU isn't worth it even at ISS, but probably to a lesser extent than OSS at Iowa


And go through this process again? To apply to what school? In the hopes I get into a top 14 school? :/


Wow, you are really going to LOVE practicing law if you think the application process is tedious and a lot of work.

No one is saying you have to go to a T14; people are telling you not to go to random state flagships (especially at a big cost) with no ties. It sounds like you are (or at least were) dead set on Iowa because of its mysterious "T30" ranking. We are letting you know that it is really no better than OU. I went to a state flagship and can tell you that most people that went here with no ties are still unemployed, doing doc review or employed in some sort of non-legal job.

Good luck.

I always find this interesting. Law school is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, investments in a person's life. But rather than take a little time to get in the best possible position to succeed by retaking the LSAT, people will significantly increase their cost and risk in the long term by jumping in headfirst without hesitation.

Doing well on the LSAT is significantly easier than doing well in law school. It's also significantly easier than getting a good job out of a marginal school. And a retake costs an infinitesimally small fraction of the cost of a law degree.

I hope OP reconsiders her options. A law degree will likely cost 100k+, and three years of opportunity costs is probably 100k+ as well.

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cron1834
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby cron1834 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:00 pm

hoos89 wrote:I go to school in St. Louis. One of my friends is originally from another country, but grew up in St. Louis, went to high school and undergrad here, is currently going to law school at WUSTL, and his family lives here. He still gets questions about why St. Louis.

OP is stubborn as a mule, but this is terrible if true. High school + undergrad + law school + family = tenuous ties? Can this really be true?

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sublime
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby sublime » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:04 pm

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Please delete

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:14 pm

It always cracks me up how every time I see two people from St. Louis meet, they have to ask about where each other went to high school. It's apparently a BIG DEAL.

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sublime
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Re: Please delete

Postby sublime » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:23 pm

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cron1834
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Re: Please delete

Postby cron1834 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:24 pm

That is straight up hayseed behavior!

BigZuck
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Re: Please delete

Postby BigZuck » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:30 pm

I am not from Texas. My wife is. I had multiple screeners with Texas firms ask me where my wife went to high school.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Please delete

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:35 pm

St. Louis also has tons of local law students to choose from.

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sublime
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Re: Please delete

Postby sublime » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:38 pm

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