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ballcaps
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby ballcaps » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:58 pm

meggy1993 wrote:wouldn't I be a much more competitive candidate for a job if I went to Iowa than if I went to Oklahoma? I know Iowa is basically a regional school, and I know it's not as good as a T14 school, but I'd have to assume that I'd be more competitive coming from a T30 school rather than a TT school


as others have already mentioned, it doesn't really work like this.

any classification besides t14 is basically meaningless, as every other law school places primarily regionally.

this applies to oklahoma and iowa as well.

that iowa has relatively good employment outcomes doesn't change this - it just means they do a relatively good job of getting grads employment in iowa and the surrounding states.

here's some data for you:
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/iowa/2013/
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/oklahoma/2013/

as you can see, at least 60% of iowa grads work in iowa or an adjacent state, and at least 80% of oklahoma grads work in oklahoma or texas.

i suppose this means iowa is slightly more portable, but not by much, and i wouldn't count on that being true for you.

ilikebaseball
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby ilikebaseball » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:00 pm

meggy1993 wrote:I am having a bit of difficultly choosing between UO and UI. At this point, it looks like I'd be going at sticker to Iowa or I could go to Oklahoma with a 10,000 dollar scholarship every year (in-state tuition). Oklahoma would be much cheaper, but I do have the money for Iowa (there is no way I'd have any debt, I just wouldn't have as much money and I'm a frugal person). Everyone hates on Iowa here, but really, their employment statistics are VERY good. Additionally, down the road, If I did move from Iowa after I acquired a job there for some years (my significant other has a lucrative job that we might move around for), wouldn't I be a much more competitive candidate for a job if I went to Iowa than if I went to Oklahoma? I know Iowa is basically a regional school, and I know it's not as good as a T14 school, but I'd have to assume that I'd be more competitive coming from a T30 school rather than a TT school......

I'm not taking the LSAT again. It's down to these two schools. Which one would you choose if you were in my situation?

OU is gonna have bigger firms, and if you live there you're gonna have less debt and more ties to the area. Also, don't just look at rankings, because according to the rankings OU has inexplicably jumped up like 15-20 spots in the past 2-3 years.

If you want to work in Iowa, then go to Iowa. But its definitely not worth it at sticker. If you wanna go to Iowa, you have to retake. Sticker for an OOS student is insane. If you are determined to not retake, I think the answer is easily OU because you have less debt and already live there. Plus, OKC/Tulsa aren't "bad" markets.

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Rigo
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby Rigo » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:06 pm

OP doesn't live in Oklahoma. The instate tuition there is essentially a scholarship for out of state students.

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Dr. Nefario
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby Dr. Nefario » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:06 pm

im starting to think GULC at sticker isn't the worst idea in the world after all

meggy1993
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby meggy1993 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:10 pm

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Last edited by meggy1993 on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

meggy1993
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby meggy1993 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:13 pm

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Last edited by meggy1993 on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rigo
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby Rigo » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:14 pm

meggy1993 wrote:
Dirigo wrote:At the very least, negotiate. Leverage your Iowa acceptance to get more money out of Oklahoma. Paying sticker is unacceptable, especially in this buyer's market.

How would I do that exactly?

This thread is helpful:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=236399#p8030109

ilikebaseball
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby ilikebaseball » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:17 pm

meggy1993 wrote:
ilikebaseball wrote:
meggy1993 wrote:I am having a bit of difficultly choosing between UO and UI. At this point, it looks like I'd be going at sticker to Iowa or I could go to Oklahoma with a 10,000 dollar scholarship every year (in-state tuition). Oklahoma would be much cheaper, but I do have the money for Iowa (there is no way I'd have any debt, I just wouldn't have as much money and I'm a frugal person). Everyone hates on Iowa here, but really, their employment statistics are VERY good. Additionally, down the road, If I did move from Iowa after I acquired a job there for some years (my significant other has a lucrative job that we might move around for), wouldn't I be a much more competitive candidate for a job if I went to Iowa than if I went to Oklahoma? I know Iowa is basically a regional school, and I know it's not as good as a T14 school, but I'd have to assume that I'd be more competitive coming from a T30 school rather than a TT school......

I'm not taking the LSAT again. It's down to these two schools. Which one would you choose if you were in my situation?

OU is gonna have bigger firms, and if you live there you're gonna have less debt and more ties to the area. Also, don't just look at rankings, because according to the rankings OU has inexplicably jumped up like 15-20 spots in the past 2-3 years.

If you want to work in Iowa, then go to Iowa. But its definitely not worth it at sticker. If you wanna go to Iowa, you have to retake. Sticker for an OOS student is insane. If you are determined to not retake, I think the answer is easily OU because you have less debt and already live there. Plus, OKC/Tulsa aren't "bad" markets.


I won't have any debt either way. How do I get Oklahoma to give me more money then?

If I go to OU and stay in Oklahoma, you are saying that it is quite possible to get a decent job?


Well, I mean, that's solely dependent on your performance, networking, and your interviewing skills. Employment is easier at Iowa, but I can tell you OU places some people in cities like Dallas, and is great in OKC/Tulsa. To my knowledge, those two cities are bigger markets than any in Iowa.

You can leverage with OU apparently. I have a few friends that go there paying 10k a year on tuition. It just depends on what you wanna do. Don't base it solely on rankings though. Unless I'm missing something, OU has jumped up BIG TIME in the rankings, but I don't see it correlating with increased employment or LSAT scores or anything. I heard they did renovations to their law building, but I doubt that would cause such an increase.

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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby JohannDeMann » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:22 pm

without knowing the specifics of everything like your bf/husbands income and career field - absolutely do not pay out of pocket money to these law schools. you lose a huge safety net by paying your own cash instead of taking out govt loans ... at least until you know you have a job lined up and reassess then.

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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby meggy1993 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:22 pm

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Last edited by meggy1993 on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ilikebaseball
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby ilikebaseball » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:23 pm

Sorry if I missed it, but why is retake not an option? I mean, if it REALLY isn't, then its a no to Iowa. Its not worth it. OU isn't worth it even at ISS, but probably to a lesser extent than OSS at Iowa

meggy1993
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby meggy1993 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:24 pm

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Last edited by meggy1993 on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

meggy1993
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby meggy1993 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:25 pm

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Last edited by meggy1993 on Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

ilikebaseball
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby ilikebaseball » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:28 pm

Multiple people apply in multiple cycles. If you have the LSAT to get into Iowa, then 5 more months of practice will get you a great score capable of getting scholarships at Iowa and perhaps into T14.

Law schools aren't going anywhere. But we're talking about saving tens of thousands of dollars here.

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Rigo
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby Rigo » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:30 pm

meggy1993 wrote:Okay, my issue is how do I negotiate when I didn't get a scholarship at Iowa? The offer they gave me is already considerably cheaper than Iowa's..

"I really like you, Oklahoma, but Iowa is higher ranked and I'm concerned about employment blah blah blah..."
On the flip side:
"I really like you, Iowa, but I got a considerable scholarship from Oklahoma and it would cost over $60k less. Costs are definitely a concern for me. Can you sweeten the pot?"

Maybe someone else can chime in on how to actually craft wording.
I have never negotiated so I surely lack tact in that area.

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Dr. Nefario
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby Dr. Nefario » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:31 pm

You could honestly take June and use it for scholarship negotiations if you really don't wanna sit out another cycle.

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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby meggy1993 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:32 pm

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Last edited by meggy1993 on Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Rigo
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby Rigo » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:33 pm

meggy1993 wrote:
ilikebaseball wrote:Multiple people apply in multiple cycles. If you have the LSAT to get into Iowa, then 5 more months of practice will get you a great score capable of getting scholarships at Iowa and perhaps into T14.
Law schools aren't going anywhere. But we're talking about saving tens of thousands of dollars here.

Seems like from this thread, Iowa just isn't worth it under any circumstance if you aren't from Iowa?

Ding ding ding!
Progress.

Any circumstances is too broad. For your circumstances though, surely not.

meggy1993
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby meggy1993 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:36 pm

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Last edited by meggy1993 on Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:37 pm

BigZuck wrote:If you're not from either state I wouldn't go to either

No one is going to think Iowa>Oklahoma unless they are from Iowa. Someone from New Mexico is going to think both are equally big dumpster fires compared to the hallowed University of New Mexico School of Law.

US News is a junk publication and the only people who care about its law school rankings on a national level are adcoms and (some) applicants


This.

Also the fact that OP called the University of Oklahoma UO is a dead give away that he or she should not consider going to law school there. And not a college football fan I imagine. . .

meggy1993
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby meggy1993 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:37 pm

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Last edited by meggy1993 on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rigo
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby Rigo » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:39 pm

meggy1993 wrote:
Dirigo wrote:
meggy1993 wrote:
ilikebaseball wrote:Multiple people apply in multiple cycles. If you have the LSAT to get into Iowa, then 5 more months of practice will get you a great score capable of getting scholarships at Iowa and perhaps into T14.
Law schools aren't going anywhere. But we're talking about saving tens of thousands of dollars here.

Seems like from this thread, Iowa just isn't worth it under any circumstance if you aren't from Iowa?

Ding ding ding!
Progress.
Any circumstances is too broad. For your circumstances though, surely not.

I'm worried about going to Oklahoma, staying in Oklahoma, and then not even getting a job in Oklahoma though?

Then don't go.
This same fear should apply to Iowa too. I don't know why you're picking and choosing where to have rational thought.

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Dr. Nefario
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby Dr. Nefario » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:42 pm

meggy1993 wrote:But, this forum is basically famous for saying if you don't go a T14 school then go to a school in the state you want to work at. Not sure I agree with that.


The majority of posters here actually seem to discourage this and encourage going where you have ties because they are becoming increasingly important.

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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby meggy1993 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:47 pm

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Last edited by meggy1993 on Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dr. Nefario
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Re: Oklahoma or Iowa?

Postby Dr. Nefario » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:50 pm

He's saying that's its rational and smart to not want to go somewhere with employment that low, but it's also rational and smart not to spend $120,000 on a place where your employment prospects are only slightly better than that.

With a full scholly or even a large scholly either of these schools would be ok for you to gamble money on but when it's gambling that much, everyone is just trying to make sure you know what you're getting into.




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