How much does class rank matter?

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huskies2015
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How much does class rank matter?

Postby huskies2015 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:21 am

I've been accepted into a variety of T30 law schools, two of which are T14 schools. My question is, how much does class rank matter when trying to find a job? For example, would someone ranked in the top 10% at say U-Minnesota have better prospects than someone ranked in the middle of the class at a school like Michigan? I know it will depend on the type of law I am pursuing, but generally speaking, what would be better?

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BVest
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Re: How much does class rank matter?

Postby BVest » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:34 am

Class rank matters for getting interviews at OCI if the school goes by pre-select (firm picks interviewees) vs lottery, but once you've got the interview, rank means a lot less. That said, don't make the mistake of believing that top 10% caliber students at U Minn would necessarily be just median at U Mich, nor think that going to a lower-ranked school is going to make it significantly easier to end up in the top 10%. That has not been my experience. Furthermore, a firm that tries to cut off applicants at top X% at U Minn will have a different cutoff at U Mich.

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MagicMike80
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Re: How much does class rank matter?

Postby MagicMike80 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:20 pm

BVest wrote:Class rank matters for getting interviews at OCI if the school goes by pre-select (firm picks interviewees) vs lottery, but once you've got the interview, rank means a lot less. That said, don't make the mistake of believing that top 10% caliber students at U Minn would necessarily be just median at U Mich, nor think that going to a lower-ranked school is going to make it significantly easier to end up in the top 10%. That has not been my experience. Furthermore, a firm that tries to cut off applicants at top X% at U Minn will have a different cutoff at U Mich.

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Agree wholeheartedly. 10-20 spots in the rankings is more about external perception of the school than it is about internal quality of the student body. Anyone who rises to the top at a t30 would be a competitive contributor at a t14. This is why schools accept transfers knowing they arent taking on the future unemployed.

Also keep in mind that the range of options of even the #1 person at Minnesota will be significantly narrower than at a t-14. A school with a lottery system at OCI is going to give even average students the opportunity to wow an interviewer.

The decision is scholly v. status. See every other thread for more on that.

mvp99
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Re: How much does class rank matter?

Postby mvp99 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:23 pm

MagicMike80 wrote:
BVest wrote:Class rank matters for getting interviews at OCI if the school goes by pre-select (firm picks interviewees) vs lottery, but once you've got the interview, rank means a lot less. That said, don't make the mistake of believing that top 10% caliber students at U Minn would necessarily be just median at U Mich, nor think that going to a lower-ranked school is going to make it significantly easier to end up in the top 10%. That has not been my experience. Furthermore, a firm that tries to cut off applicants at top X% at U Minn will have a different cutoff at U Mich.

\


Agree wholeheartedly. 10-20 spots in the rankings is more about external perception of the school than it is about internal quality of the student body. Anyone who rises to the top at a t30 would be a competitive contributor at a t14. This is why schools accept transfers knowing they arent taking on the future unemployed.

Also keep in mind that the range of options of even the #1 person at Minnesota will be significantly narrower than at a t-14. A school with a lottery system at OCI is going to give even average students the opportunity to wow an interviewer.

The decision is scholly v. status. See every other thread for more on that.


na bro t14 or bust

huskies2015
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Re: How much does class rank matter?

Postby huskies2015 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:28 pm

MagicMike80 wrote:
BVest wrote:Class rank matters for getting interviews at OCI if the school goes by pre-select (firm picks interviewees) vs lottery, but once you've got the interview, rank means a lot less. That said, don't make the mistake of believing that top 10% caliber students at U Minn would necessarily be just median at U Mich, nor think that going to a lower-ranked school is going to make it significantly easier to end up in the top 10%. That has not been my experience. Furthermore, a firm that tries to cut off applicants at top X% at U Minn will have a different cutoff at U Mich.

\


Agree wholeheartedly. 10-20 spots in the rankings is more about external perception of the school than it is about internal quality of the student body. Anyone who rises to the top at a t30 would be a competitive contributor at a t14. This is why schools accept transfers knowing they arent taking on the future unemployed.

Also keep in mind that the range of options of even the #1 person at Minnesota will be significantly narrower than at a t-14. A school with a lottery system at OCI is going to give even average students the opportunity to wow an interviewer.

The decision is scholly v. status. See every other thread for more on that.


So you are saying that regardless of rank, people from T14 will have more options than the #1 student at non T14?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: How much does class rank matter?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:42 pm

huskies2015 wrote:So you are saying that regardless of rank, people from T14 will have more options than the #1 student at non T14?

No, if you knew in advance that you could either be #1 at Minnesota or median at Michigan you'd take Minnesota, but that's not a choice you get to make. You have to assume roughly median grades wherever you go.

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AreJay711
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Re: How much does class rank matter?

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:51 pm

huskies2015 wrote:
MagicMike80 wrote:
BVest wrote:Class rank matters for getting interviews at OCI if the school goes by pre-select (firm picks interviewees) vs lottery, but once you've got the interview, rank means a lot less. That said, don't make the mistake of believing that top 10% caliber students at U Minn would necessarily be just median at U Mich, nor think that going to a lower-ranked school is going to make it significantly easier to end up in the top 10%. That has not been my experience. Furthermore, a firm that tries to cut off applicants at top X% at U Minn will have a different cutoff at U Mich.

\


Agree wholeheartedly. 10-20 spots in the rankings is more about external perception of the school than it is about internal quality of the student body. Anyone who rises to the top at a t30 would be a competitive contributor at a t14. This is why schools accept transfers knowing they arent taking on the future unemployed.

Also keep in mind that the range of options of even the #1 person at Minnesota will be significantly narrower than at a t-14. A school with a lottery system at OCI is going to give even average students the opportunity to wow an interviewer.

The decision is scholly v. status. See every other thread for more on that.


So you are saying that regardless of rank, people from T14 will have more options than the #1 student at non T14?


This isn't it. It's just there is no good way to predict your class rank before law school. The mental horsepower to get 6 or 7 more questions right on the LSAT just doesn't affect your grade on law school exams that much. And even if it did matter relative to the median, it doesn't matter on the extremes. Maybe someone median at Harvard would be top 1/4 at Boston University, but you aren't going to beat the people who just get law school exams.

Edit: But, as Tiago Splitter indicated, you don't even know you will be median at Harvard. You might be bottom 1/4. Even if there was a consistent 25% boost, that would only put you at median at BU, which is not the best place in the world to be.

huskies2015
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Re: How much does class rank matter?

Postby huskies2015 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:04 pm

I'm not trying to predict where I will end up, I am more just curious about the comparable job opportunities for a median student at a T14 vs. a top ten student at a non T14 school. Like how do perspective employers judge class rank vs. prestige of school?

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AreJay711
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Re: How much does class rank matter?

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:07 pm

They care about the school prestige way more.

bl1nds1ght
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Re: How much does class rank matter?

Postby bl1nds1ght » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:13 pm

huskies2015 wrote:Like how do perspective employers judge class rank vs. prestige of school?

Firms and judges have cutoffs. If you view it from the perspective of an individual firm, you'll have concrete examples, but when viewed from the perspective of multiple firms, things get hazier.

Look at LST if you want to see roughly where the top whatever% end up. For Minn, you need to be about top 15% to consider getting a FC or BL position (at least that's how it adds up). Then consider how this compares with Michigan where you need to be top 55% to get something desirable.

It seems like this answers your question, but there's not really a straightforward answer to your question in the first place.

The issue is that you cannot predict where you'll end up on the curve, so judging a school by its median outcome is statistically the most realistic thing to do.
Last edited by bl1nds1ght on Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

huskies2015
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Re: How much does class rank matter?

Postby huskies2015 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:16 pm

bl1nds1ght wrote:
huskies2015 wrote:Like how do perspective employers judge class rank vs. prestige of school?

Firms and judges have cutoffs. If you view it from the perspective of an individual firm, you'll have concrete examples, but when viewed from the perspective of multiple firms, things get hazier.

Look at LST if you want to see roughly where the top whatever% end up. For Minn, you need to be about top 20% to consider getting a FC or BL position (at least that's how it adds up). Then consider how this compares with Michigan where you need to be top 50% to get something desirable.

It seems like this answers your question, but there's not really a straightforward answer to your question in the first place.

The issue is that you cannot predict where you'll end up on the curve, so judging a school by its median outcome is statistically the most realistic thing to do.


No this is all I was looking for. Thanks




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