Detroit Market

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DetroitBL
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Re: Detroit Market

Postby DetroitBL » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:33 am

Bumping this thread to ask for input, especially from medianman and dsn32. Read both of your above posts, which were very helpful. Wondering if you could comment on my case specifically.

(Reposting the relevant portion of my post in the "Choosing a Law School" thread)

The goal is to start in Detroit BL and remain there for the long term.

Considering (ranked in order of preference):
1) UM ............@ [deleted]
2) NU ............@ [deleted]
3) Berkeley ... @ $170,000 (waiting on merit award)
4) Cornell ......@ [deleted]
5) Duke ..........@ $145,000
6) WUSTL ......@ $40,000 (Dean's Fellow)
7) UIUC ..........@ $20,000

From Michigan with strong ties to Detroit. UM undergrad. Legacy at UM.

Michigan seems the obvious choice, and if I can get them to match one of the more generous scholarship offers I will matriculate there.

But I'm curious to hear from anyone with experience working Detroit BL(/ML) about the strength of UM compared to other T14s for people with preexisting ties to the area.

That is, are firms willing, or perhaps even eager, to hire grads from NU, Berkeley, Cornell, and/or Duke as long as they demonstrate a desire to put down roots and stay there long term? Detroit is hardly a top market for grads from these schools, so I'm wondering if coming from somewhere other than UM could actually set one apart from the herd of maize and blue.

If ties are enough (assuming, of course, that I have the grades), then my decision will come down to cost, and I'm rather debt-averse. Although, after some research and discussions with a few helpful TLSers at WUSTL, I think a T14 is better for my goals than WUSTL or UIUC, despite the extremely appealing offers.
Last edited by DetroitBL on Mon May 04, 2015 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

donewithannarbor
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Re: Detroit Market

Postby donewithannarbor » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:15 am

Few observations for OP:

I hear the same as what othes have said about laterals, and that they are really welcoming particularly to those coming home from the northeast/DC. I may test that out soon enough myself.

All that really means for you is, if you are willing to live elsewhere for 6+ years, then by all means try to get the best deal out of a bigger name school in the northeast corridor or Chicago (though for Chi I'd would say that your options for a transportable degree are really just UC and NU, and getting something less than sticker there is a tall order).

For staying close to home, I'd say Michigan if you can get it or Wayne full ride. Both are clearly respected, one is obviously a tad riskier but hey, don't slouch. Don't bother with MSU-- it doesn't garner the same respect in Detroit so why jeopardize yourself when the firms have so many options and so few positions.

/////

For DetroitBL:

For your goals, and on paper generally, UM seems your best option. Cornell @ 90 is great too, and could work out for you. Let us know if NU ends up nearly as generous. There's a slight risk that fewer Detroit firms interview you if you do Cornell or NU, given the dearth of positions and the affinity for more local folks, and that you'll end up in east coast or Chi big law and then need to migrate back.

DetroitBL
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Re: Detroit Market

Postby DetroitBL » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:44 am

What do ppl think about Cornell at a huge discount if Detroit BL is the ultimate goal? I understand that lateraling in after a few years in NYC could be a good backup, but I would highly prefer avoiding NYC altogether.

krads153
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Re: Detroit Market

Postby krads153 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:21 am

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Last edited by krads153 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jw316
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Re: Detroit Market

Postby jw316 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:32 am

krads153 wrote:
DetroitBL wrote:What do ppl think about Cornell at a huge discount if Detroit BL is the ultimate goal? I understand that lateraling in after a few years in NYC could be a good backup, but I would highly prefer avoiding NYC altogether.


Eh, probably not a good idea. Michigan firms go to Michigan to recruit but don't go to Cornell. Cornell heavily places into only NYC. That said, some Michigan firms have higher GPA medians than NYC firms....but your best bet by far of landing a Michigan job is to go to Michigan. The vast majority of the Michigan Law class is not from Michigan and won't be looking there, which largely explains why Michigan placed less than 20% into Michigan.

I'd probably do Michigan if you're set on Michigan. Keep in mind if you can land a GSI/TA job by GSI/TA-ing only ONE class in Michigan undergrad (and any class, including bullshit poli sci classes) you can get your entire tuition paid for for that semester AND get a 2k a month stipend.

I went to Michigan Law and had a bunch of friends who graduated debt free because they taught ONE class a semester and got all tuition paid for and got 2k a month on top of that. Some of these friends didn't even major in the area of study. It's a really sweet deal...wonder why more people don't think of it.


PM'd you as well but that's a game-changer. Do you know if any other schools in the T-14 do this, or if this is just unique to Michigan?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Detroit Market

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:35 am

80% of Michigan's class of 2014 graduated with debt, and the average amount was $132,473. That debt total doesn't include interest or undergrad debt. So I'm guessing getting one of these sweet gigs won't be all that easy.

DCESQ
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Re: Detroit Market

Postby DCESQ » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:05 pm

Also a displaced UofM grad. Did not want to work in Detroit because of the susceptibility of the auto industry to economic downturn. However, I have family who works with the larger transactional firms (big law) in Detroit. The advice he/she got from the attorney he/she works most frequently with is that they hire mostly from UM and mostly from the upper 1/3 of the class.

Other schools like MSU/Wayne definitely get a look but generally to be competitive you need to be in the top 10% of your class and hustle. It is definitely doable though.

For UofD you need to be top 5% to be viewed as competitive. But again you will be looked at if you are.
Other schools (Cooley?) Not likely to happen.

I have no idea about out of state schools but going to GULC and then going to work back in MI where the ceiling of earnings for first year is about 105/110 might be risky. Then again I'll be transferring to GULC next fall with no ties to DC so take my financial advice with a grain of salt.

EDIT: The attorney giving advice was an MSU law grad, FWIW.

DetroitBL
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Re: Detroit Market

Postby DetroitBL » Mon May 18, 2015 11:10 pm

Anyone have insight about compensation at top firms in Detroit? Have heard it's not lockstep, but it would be nice to have more detailed information.

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stego
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Re: Detroit Market

Postby stego » Tue May 19, 2015 12:07 am

CaptainJapan wrote:
KingsleyZissou wrote:
enteringthemaze wrote:...But it really doesn't seem like Michigan places well in state either...


I think the numbers could be misleading you a bit since most Michigan Law students probably aren't looking to stay in Michigan in the first place.



This is what I've heard to be true. I have ties in the Detroit area and most of the lawyers I've spoken with have said that applicants from t14 are a hot commodity lately. Most U of M kids leave the state...most other t14 grads aren't flocking to Detroit.


I don't know if OP has seen this or not, but on U of M's website they actually have an interactive map of which states their law students came from and which states they went to after graduation. Data is from the classes of 2011 through 2014. https://www.law.umich.edu/careers/class ... fault.aspx

iVi
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Re: Detroit Market

Postby iVi » Tue May 19, 2015 10:34 am

DetroitBL wrote:Anyone have insight about compensation at top firms in Detroit? Have heard it's not lockstep, but it would be nice to have more detailed information.


+1

Also curious about this.

krads153
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Re: Detroit Market

Postby krads153 » Tue May 19, 2015 2:57 pm

stasg wrote:
CaptainJapan wrote:
KingsleyZissou wrote:
enteringthemaze wrote:...But it really doesn't seem like Michigan places well in state either...


I think the numbers could be misleading you a bit since most Michigan Law students probably aren't looking to stay in Michigan in the first place.



This is what I've heard to be true. I have ties in the Detroit area and most of the lawyers I've spoken with have said that applicants from t14 are a hot commodity lately. Most U of M kids leave the state...most other t14 grads aren't flocking to Detroit.


I don't know if OP has seen this or not, but on U of M's website they actually have an interactive map of which states their law students came from and which states they went to after graduation. Data is from the classes of 2011 through 2014. https://www.law.umich.edu/careers/class ... fault.aspx


Wow, that's pretty awesome. Looks like most people work where they came from.

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stego
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Re: Detroit Market

Postby stego » Tue May 19, 2015 9:46 pm

krads153 wrote:Wow, that's pretty awesome. Looks like most people work where they came from.


I wouldn't say "most." If I did the math right, only 346 out of 1045 went back to the same state they came from. Obviously if you're from Connecticut or New Jersey and you go to NYC, or if you're from VA or MD and you go to DC, that could be local for you, so let's say the number is a bit higher, but the data isn't that granular.

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Aeon
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Re: Detroit Market

Postby Aeon » Wed May 20, 2015 10:13 pm

iVi wrote:
DetroitBL wrote:Anyone have insight about compensation at top firms in Detroit? Have heard it's not lockstep, but it would be nice to have more detailed information.


+1

Also curious about this.



Honigman, as an example, is fairly forthcoming with this information:

Honigman wrote:Compensation is based primarily on individual performance in a merit system, rather than on seniority. Actual compensation ranges in 2014 (including salary, regular bonuses and credit for generation of new legal business) were:
    First full calendar year: $115,000 - $150,000
    Second full calendar year: $135,000 - $165,000
    Third full calendar year: $145,000 - $200,000
    Fourth full calendar year: $150,000 - $250,000
Honigman provides compensation figures only for associates in their first through fourth full years because most of our associates are elected to partnership at the end of their fourth full year with the firm.




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