NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Based on the info provided (I know it's not much) which school seems like the best option?

NYU
28
90%
UVA
2
6%
UT
1
3%
 
Total votes: 31

Cilia
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NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Cilia » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:53 pm

Hi everyone. I have recently been admitted into NYU, UVA, and the University of Texas. I have not yet received any financial aid or scholarship information. Assuming that I will pay out-of-state full price tuition, does anyone have any suggestions about which institution would be better in terms of job placement opportunities? I am interested in public interest law, but I know that could change as I will also (probably) have significant debt to pay off. In terms of location, I like NYC because I do not have a car right now and the subway is easily accessible.

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cron1834
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby cron1834 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:33 pm

You've listed them in the appropriate order. Don't pay full sticker anywhere. Other than that, need more info.

03152016
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby 03152016 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:43 pm

you should wait to see what happens with financial aid before making any decisions
there's really no way to say what school would be the best choice until you've calculated your total cost of attendance

to answer your question directly though, you've listed them in order both in terms of pi placement and overall job placement

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Rigo
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Rigo » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:30 am

Cilia wrote:In terms of location, I like NYC because I do not have a car right now and the subway is easily accessible.

You do realize that all the money you save on rent by not living in NYC would buy you a luxurious new car and then some, right? Super foolish consideration, especially since Austin and Charlottesville both have huge car-less student populations and probably have great public transit themselves.

Also, there is no way that someone who got into NYU would be paying sticker at UT, so your "assume full cost" hypo is moot. Come back to us when you have COA figures.

BigZuck
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby BigZuck » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:04 am

Is the OP saying they want to be in NYC long term or just during law school cuz the subway exists?

Username123
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Username123 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:40 am

BigZuck wrote:Is the OP saying they want to be in NYC long term or just during law school cuz the subway exists?


If so (not condoning making any law school decision based on transportation) the OP should know that the public transportation in Austin is pretty meh. I live in N. Austin and the rail is a pain in the ass. The buses are alright, but they're buses. Traffic here is HORRENDOUS.

But please do not place much weight on transportation into deciding what law school you're going to be attending. That's like investing hundreds of thousands of dollars into a burger joint because you like their sauce. Or something like that.

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twenty
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby twenty » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:46 am

I am interested in public interest law, but I know that could change as I will also (probably) have significant debt to pay off.


1) go research public interest law. saying "I am interested in public interest law" is like saying "I am interested in working in something business-y." There are huge, huge differences between what an entry level ADA does and what an entry level staff attorney at a large non-profit does.
1.5) You can't really figure this out once you get into law school because where you go to law school matters pretty hugely in this case. If you want to be a public defender in Texas, the answer is probably go to Baylor (et al.) and get a full scholarship. If you'll commit suicide if you can't get into ACLU, then NYU.

2) go research LRAP/IBR/PAYE/PSLF. NYU's LRAP is solid enough to where if you actually stay in a public interest law gig for ten years, you likely won't need to pay any of your student loans.

3) wait until you get your financial situation figured out entirely. I highly doubt your options will end up being these three at sticker.

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Skool
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Skool » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:58 am

BigZuck wrote:Is the OP saying they want to be in NYC long term or just during law school cuz the subway exists?


I suspect they're trying to say that she, like millions of young people around the country, feels more comfortable spending her grad school years in a city where she knows just about every experience she wants to have can be accessed via the subway. Such experiences include: the library, exercising in the park, going to the Emergency Room, getting to the Airport, seeing a talk at a neighboring university, etc. *In before Hurricane Sandy* Lots of people try and start their lives in urban areas with excellent mass transit because, although they might save money in the medium term by living in the suburbs, not having to spend the money upfront for guaranteed accessibility, which would likely require a car (as opposed to whatever Charlottesville "probably" has) makes starting your life easier/possible.

And among my recent college graduate/graduate friends in New York, the cheapest rent I know of is $425 (sketchy situation in Brooklyn) the most expensive I have heard among them is $1000 a month with roommates in Harlem (125th-ish) or Downtown/Wall St. The average is probably $750 in a Bed-Stuyish neighborhood with a ten minute walk to the subway. I don't know what the rates are in Charlottesville, but costs can be kept low enough that the difference with Charlottesville won't be a luxury car. Your still going to get killed on cost of food.

Even though you can't make a reasonable decision about attendance without knowing money. I don't think there's a better city to be a law student interested in Public Interest than New york. So much interesting policy and litigation, with both regional and national focus, is developed out of New York. If you want to be, you can be immersed year round. I imagine that's less likely in Austin or Charlottesville, but I'm not that familiar with their PI communities.

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Ron Don Volante » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:20 am

OP if you want to live in NYC it doesn't make very much sense to go to UT. There are a handful of kids in my section from NYC who are all planning to go back -- and if you're like top quarter it seems like you've got a very solid chance of doing that -- but you can't bet on being top quarter.

Uschoolqb10 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Is the OP saying they want to be in NYC long term or just during law school cuz the subway exists?


If so (not condoning making any law school decision based on transportation) the OP should know that the public transportation in Austin is pretty meh. I live in N. Austin and the rail is a pain in the ass. The buses are alright, but they're buses. Traffic here is HORRENDOUS.

But please do not place much weight on transportation into deciding what law school you're going to be attending. That's like investing hundreds of thousands of dollars into a burger joint because you like their sauce. Or something like that.

Agreed. My biggest disappointment with Austin is that you really need a car to be able to fully enjoy the city. Public transportation is a bit below median, and it's not exactly fucking fun to bike in triple digits half the year, either.

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Rigo
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Rigo » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:30 am

This is so silly. My apologies for starting the transit snowball. It's a super silly consideration in choosing a law school though. Maybe only slightly ahead of choosing a law school based on proximity to Chipotle.

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Skool
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Skool » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:52 pm

But it's not silly. What city you want to spend three years of your life in matters in picking a law school. Your ability to get around a city effects your quality of life. Personally, if I can't easily get to an airport or a hospital in a given city, I can't live there.

No one is saying she should make a decision without knowing what the FinAid situation is, but the availability of mass transit is not a frivolous concern.

I think you think so little of 0Ls as a species that you think they can't hold two legitimate needs in mind at once without accidentally mis-weighing their relative importance.

It's like TLS is always trying to give good general advice about financing law school and job outcomes and is in danger of losing track of the importance of small-medium size details that common sense says matters. I think it jeopardizes the credibility of what is generally good advice and alienating reasonable people through its stridency. It's like well-meaning propaganda that is always at risk of distorting reality.

Username123
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Username123 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:00 pm

Dirigo wrote:This is so silly. My apologies for starting the transit snowball. It's a super silly consideration in choosing a law school though. Maybe only slightly ahead of choosing a law school based on proximity to Chipotle.


TCR is to choose which law school to attend while only considering the following three factors which are listed in order from most to least important:

1) strength of football team

2) undergrad parties

3) academic prestige

YOLO.

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ChemEng1642
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby ChemEng1642 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:41 pm

Dirigo wrote:This is so silly. My apologies for starting the transit snowball. It's a super silly consideration in choosing a law school though. Maybe only slightly ahead of choosing a law school based on proximity to Chipotle.


But this is how I decide everything!!

Cilia
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Cilia » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:08 pm

Skool wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Is the OP saying they want to be in NYC long term or just during law school cuz the subway exists?


I suspect they're trying to say that she, like millions of young people around the country, feels more comfortable spending her grad school years in a city where she knows just about every experience she wants to have can be accessed via the subway. Such experiences include: the library, exercising in the park, going to the Emergency Room, getting to the Airport, seeing a talk at a neighboring university, etc. *In before Hurricane Sandy* Lots of people try and start their lives in urban areas with excellent mass transit because, although they might save money in the medium term by living in the suburbs, not having to spend the money upfront for guaranteed accessibility, which would likely require a car (as opposed to whatever Charlottesville "probably" has) makes starting your life easier/possible.

And among my recent college graduate/graduate friends in New York, the cheapest rent I know of is $425 (sketchy situation in Brooklyn) the most expensive I have heard among them is $1000 a month with roommates in Harlem (125th-ish) or Downtown/Wall St. The average is probably $750 in a Bed-Stuyish neighborhood with a ten minute walk to the subway. I don't know what the rates are in Charlottesville, but costs can be kept low enough that the difference with Charlottesville won't be a luxury car. Your still going to get killed on cost of food.

Even though you can't make a reasonable decision about attendance without knowing money. I don't think there's a better city to be a law student interested in Public Interest than New york. So much interesting policy and litigation, with both regional and national focus, is developed out of New York. If you want to be, you can be immersed year round. I imagine that's less likely in Austin or Charlottesville, but I'm not that familiar with their PI communities.


^These are exactly my concerns. I am currently in DC, didn't bring a car to school down here, and have gotten used to relying primarily upon public transportation for internships, events, etc that take place outside my campus. Thank you for the feedback and the cost info

Cilia
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Cilia » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:13 pm

twenty wrote:
I am interested in public interest law, but I know that could change as I will also (probably) have significant debt to pay off.


1) go research public interest law. saying "I am interested in public interest law" is like saying "I am interested in working in something business-y." There are huge, huge differences between what an entry level ADA does and what an entry level staff attorney at a large non-profit does.
1.5) You can't really figure this out once you get into law school because where you go to law school matters pretty hugely in this case. If you want to be a public defender in Texas, the answer is probably go to Baylor (et al.) and get a full scholarship. If you'll commit suicide if you can't get into ACLU, then NYU.

2) go research LRAP/IBR/PAYE/PSLF. NYU's LRAP is solid enough to where if you actually stay in a public interest law gig for ten years, you likely won't need to pay any of your student loans.

3) wait until you get your financial situation figured out entirely. I highly doubt your options will end up being these three at sticker.


Right now I'm interested in immigration law, specifically. I listed the broad category of "public interest" because honestly I've changed my mind a few times with this. I tend to fall in love with any good causes I'm exposed to (which can be problematic) and I recently interned with a nonprofit org that works with refugees. I also would love to pursue crim law. I'm trying to narrow my focus, but from what I've heard many law students make their decisions after they intern as law students anyway so I haven't been stressing it.

Cilia
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Cilia » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:16 pm

Brut wrote:you should wait to see what happens with financial aid before making any decisions
there's really no way to say what school would be the best choice until you've calculated your total cost of attendance

to answer your question directly though, you've listed them in order both in terms of pi placement and overall job placement



--> This seems to be the consensus. I agree that I have to wait for financial info. Just wanted to get some preliminary feedback about reputation, job placement, location, etc. so I don't make a decision that's totally based on $

Cilia
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Cilia » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:23 pm

Dirigo wrote:This is so silly. My apologies for starting the transit snowball. It's a super silly consideration in choosing a law school though. Maybe only slightly ahead of choosing a law school based on proximity to Chipotle.



Now you've given me something else to worry about...if none of these schools have a Chipotle within walking distance they're all out anyway

Cilia
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Cilia » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:26 pm

cron1834 wrote:You've listed them in the appropriate order. Don't pay full sticker anywhere. Other than that, need more info.


You would say not to pay full sticker even at an ivy? (I know none of those schools are ivy but I may be sending out some more applications)

Cilia
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Cilia » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:31 pm

Dirigo wrote:
Cilia wrote:In terms of location, I like NYC because I do not have a car right now and the subway is easily accessible.

You do realize that all the money you save on rent by not living in NYC would buy you a luxurious new car and then some, right? Super foolish consideration, especially since Austin and Charlottesville both have huge car-less student populations and probably have great public transit themselves.

Also, there is no way that someone who got into NYU would be paying sticker at UT, so your "assume full cost" hypo is moot. Come back to us when you have COA figures.


-->Wouldn't describe the public transit systems in the area surrounding UT or UVA as "great"
which is the only factor that makes them slightly less attractive to me. I really don't want to deal with a car. I have a license, so it's not off the table, but the car I used to drive is currently with a family member and I'm more comfortable with using a bus/subway/metro after being in dc for four years. I get how it may seem trivial to some people and it's a factor in my decision (although not the most important one --didn't mean to give that impression)

03152016
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby 03152016 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:39 pm

if you don't want to hear someone nerd out about transit, stop reading here

in addition to public transportation being important for QOL, as skool pointed out, it also matters when calculating cost
because manhattan is very expensive, public transportation is hugely popular with nyu students
while the metro area will always be more expensive than other parts of the country, it is still very much possible to find housing in the $500-$600 range with a few roommates, or $700-800 with one roommate. my last three places: bushwick with three roommates for under $500, flushing with three roommates for $550, and now sunset park with one roommate for $750. because of public transportation, i am able to pay half (or less) of what many people pay in manhattan for similar accommodations, and my commute is very reasonable. (another perk: nyu has a newly renovated library in brooklyn, which is great if you want to study a little closer to home)
is it more expensive than housing near uva or ut? obviously. but the point is that transit affects the bottom line cost of attendance by a significant enough measure to be a relevant factor

the transportation infrastructure in nyc, and near nyu in particular, is superb
nyu is served by 11 subway lines, 2 path lines (jersey city is a popular alternative to nyc for nyu students), and 5 mta bus routes
the school operates 5 additional shuttle routes in manhattan and brooklyn, plus an on-call shared van service at night and expanded shuttle service during finals
there are 9 city-operated bikeshare stations within a block of campus. the school also operates its own bikeshare system independent of the city's – it's free and for nyu students only. both entrances to the law school have bike lanes. in addition to dozens of racks around campus, the school has several protected bike ares, most notably the excellent tisch bike parking lot (tho many students prefer to just lock up in the law school's courtyard)
some nyu students choose to live in the suburbs and take commuter rail. i have personally done the commute from westchester via the metro north and from long island via the lirr. they are both doable, though likely in excess of an hour (which, believe it or not, isn't crazy by nyc standards). some commute from nj via nj transit rail, and i know one person who takes the staten island ferry.
and, of course, you can always hail a taxi

so again, dispositive? absolutely not. but stuff like this matters at the margins

03152016
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby 03152016 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:43 pm

Cilia wrote:
cron1834 wrote:You've listed them in the appropriate order. Don't pay full sticker anywhere. Other than that, need more info.


You would say not to pay full sticker even at an ivy? (I know none of those schools are ivy but I may be sending out some more applications)

there is no "ivy" distinction in law school
harvard, yale, columbia, cornell, and penn all have excellent law schools, sure
but they're not grouped together like they are for undergrad
harvard is often compared with stanford
columbia with nyu and chicago
penn with uva and nyu
cornell with northwestern and georgetown

there is simply no reason to choose one school over another on account of it being an ivy or not

Cilia
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Cilia » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:47 pm

Brut wrote:if you don't want to hear someone nerd out about transit, stop reading here

in addition to public transportation being important for QOL, as skool pointed out, it also matters when calculating cost
because manhattan is very expensive, public transportation is hugely popular with nyu students
while the metro area will always be more expensive than other parts of the country, it is still very much possible to find housing in the $500-$600 range with a few roommates, or $700-800 with one roommate. my last three places: bushwick with three roommates for under $500, flushing with three roommates for $550, and now sunset park with one roommate for $750. because of public transportation, i am able to pay half (or less) of what many people pay in manhattan for similar accommodations, and my commute is very reasonable. (another perk: nyu has a newly renovated library in brooklyn, which is great if you want to study a little closer to home)
is it more expensive than housing near uva or ut? obviously. but the point is that transit affects the bottom line cost of attendance by a significant enough measure to be a relevant factor

the transportation infrastructure in nyc, and near nyu in particular, is superb
nyu is served by 11 subway lines, 2 path lines (jersey city is a popular alternative to nyc for nyu students), and 5 mta bus routes
the school operates 5 additional shuttle routes in manhattan and brooklyn, plus an on-call shared van service at night and expanded shuttle service during finals
there are 9 city-operated bikeshare stations within a block of campus. the school also operates its own bikeshare system independent of the city's – it's free and for nyu students only. both entrances to the law school have bike lanes. in addition to dozens of racks around campus, the school has several protected bike ares, most notably the excellent tisch bike parking lot (tho many students prefer to just lock up in the law school's courtyard)
some nyu students choose to live in the suburbs and take commuter rail. i have personally done the commute from westchester via the metro north and from long island via the lirr. they are both doable, though likely in excess of an hour (which, believe it or not, isn't crazy by nyc standards). some commute from nj via nj transit rail, and i know one person who takes the staten island ferry.
and, of course, you can always hail a taxi

so again, dispositive? absolutely not. but stuff like this matters at the margins


I didn't realize rent could be that inexpensive in some cases. Thank you for your thorough answer.

Cilia
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Cilia » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:52 pm

Brut wrote:
Cilia wrote:
cron1834 wrote:You've listed them in the appropriate order. Don't pay full sticker anywhere. Other than that, need more info.


You would say not to pay full sticker even at an ivy? (I know none of those schools are ivy but I may be sending out some more applications)

there is no "ivy" distinction in law school
harvard, yale, columbia, cornell, and penn all have excellent law schools, sure
but they're not grouped together like they are for undergrad
harvard is often compared with stanford
columbia with nyu and chicago
penn with uva and nyu
cornell with northwestern and georgetown

there is simply no reason to choose one school over another on account of it being an ivy or not


Maybe I have been misinformed. I have always seen harvard, yale, columbia, cornell, & penn listed as the 5 ivy league schools...and I was under the impression that such prestige matters more now in today's job market. It's interesting to me that you say this shouldn't be a deciding factor.

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Skool
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby Skool » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:59 pm

You're right about prestige, but there are non-ivys that are more prestigious than ivys. Stanford is more prestigious than Cornell, for instance.

I can't tell if I'm missing something.

lapolicia
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Re: NYU vs. UVA vs. UT

Postby lapolicia » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:04 pm

Cilia wrote:
Brut wrote:
Cilia wrote:
cron1834 wrote:You've listed them in the appropriate order. Don't pay full sticker anywhere. Other than that, need more info.


You would say not to pay full sticker even at an ivy? (I know none of those schools are ivy but I may be sending out some more applications)

there is no "ivy" distinction in law school
harvard, yale, columbia, cornell, and penn all have excellent law schools, sure
but they're not grouped together like they are for undergrad
harvard is often compared with stanford
columbia with nyu and chicago
penn with uva and nyu
cornell with northwestern and georgetown

there is simply no reason to choose one school over another on account of it being an ivy or not


Maybe I have been misinformed. I have always seen harvard, yale, columbia, cornell, & penn listed as the 5 ivy league schools...and I was under the impression that such prestige matters more now in today's job market. It's interesting to me that you say this shouldn't be a deciding factor.



The "ivy league" for law schools is the "Top 14" schools. All the ivies that have law schools are in the Top 14, but the ivy distinction itself is meaningless for law school. For example, Stanford, NYU, and UVA are not ivies, but generally place better than Cornell, which is an ivy.




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