Which law school should I pick?

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CaptTuttle
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Which law school should I pick?

Postby CaptTuttle » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:06 pm

I have been accepted and received comparable half ride scholarship offers from Miami (FL), Michigan State, American, Baylor, and Seattle. I have smaller offers from Seton Hall, Ole Miss, and Marquette. I have not heard back from yet from UNLV, Houston, Villanova, Wake Forest, and Ohio State. I originally wanted to go to Seton Hall but their scholarship offer was not enough and I currently I am torn between Miami and Michigan State but I am also very interested in UNLV and Ohio State. Any input is appreciated as I am trying to get more perspectives as I make my decision. Thanks!

EDIT:

I have a 3.4 Undergrad GPA and a 159 LSAT. I will be financing my schooling through scholarships, loans, and financial aid. My career goal is to work in sport and entertainment law however as the jobs in that specific field are quite limited I am pursuing corporate/business law. The COA is between the $45,000 to $70,000 per year range with Miami being the most expensive followed by Seton Hall, American, Baylor, Seattle, and Michigan State. I am from Detroit, Michigan but I have no strong desire to stay in the area and I am willing to go wherever the best chance for a job and good money is.
Last edited by CaptTuttle on Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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phillywc
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby phillywc » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:08 pm

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

Nat Sherman
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby Nat Sherman » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:23 pm

Stay far away from UNLV unless you're from Vegas or have significant connections.

CaptTuttle
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby CaptTuttle » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:25 pm

Nat Sherman wrote:Stay far away from UNLV unless you're from Vegas or have significant connections.


Why do you say that?

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phillywc
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby phillywc » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:26 pm

All of the schools you applied to are incredibly regional. Those regions are all very tie sensitive. Don't go to any of those schools without ties to the area (and a huge scholly).

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phillywc
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby phillywc » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:27 pm

Your GPA isn't awful. You should consider retaking the LSAT. With a 3.4, several T14s (including Michigan) are in reach.

CaptTuttle
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby CaptTuttle » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:28 pm

phillywc wrote:All of the schools you applied to are incredibly regional. Those regions are all very tie sensitive. Don't go to any of those schools without ties to the area (and a huge scholly).


The only ones I have ties to are Michigan State and Ohio State. Also, what is your definition of a "huge scholly"?

EDIT:

I am not in a position to retake the LSAT.

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Clearly
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby Clearly » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:30 pm

CaptTuttle wrote:
phillywc wrote:All of the schools you applied to are incredibly regional. Those regions are all very tie sensitive. Don't go to any of those schools without ties to the area (and a huge scholly).


The only ones I have ties to are Michigan State and Ohio State. Also, what is your definition of a "huge scholly"?

EDIT:

I am not in a position to retake the LSAT.

Yes you are.

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KMart
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby KMart » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:31 pm

CaptTuttle wrote:I am not in a position to retake the LSAT.

Why not?

CaptTuttle
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby CaptTuttle » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:32 pm

I really am not because I am graduating undergrad this May and I have no desire to put off entering law school past the Fall of 2015. I know I could push back entering law school but the way my schedule and internships play out it makes no sense to do so.

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KMart
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby KMart » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:34 pm

CaptTuttle wrote:t it makes no sense to do so.

Unless you get some valuable work experience during the next year, retake the LSAT for a better score and get more scholarship money at a chance for better employment. Law school will always be there, don't make the mistake of entering too soon.

CaptTuttle
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby CaptTuttle » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:36 pm

imKMart wrote:
CaptTuttle wrote:t it makes no sense to do so.

Unless you get some valuable work experience during the next year, retake the LSAT for a better score and get more scholarship money at a chance for better employment. Law school will always be there, don't make the mistake of entering too soon.


Thank you for your input. If I were to enter now which school would you say should be my leading candidate?

jepper
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby jepper » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:40 pm

Is this when the official roast starts?

CaptTuttle
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby CaptTuttle » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:40 pm

jepper wrote:Is this when the official roast starts?


Go for it

Nat Sherman
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby Nat Sherman » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:42 pm

CaptTuttle wrote:
Nat Sherman wrote:Stay far away from UNLV unless you're from Vegas or have significant connections.


Why do you say that?

Vegas being 4 hours from the next actual city makes it very insular. It's more about who you went to high school with than anything else. There's only a couple market paying firms, and if you look at the associates that graduated since 2010 at any of the firms, it's all number 1 at UNLV with art. III clerkships, or T14 laterals. I interviewed at one of the AUSA/FPD offices there for an internship and no one I talked to went to a school below the T20, with some from the T6. So basically, if you go to UNLV, you're getting state and local government, or shit law. Which you're not even getting shit law without connections to someone at the firm. Your only realistic job prospect is getting some county prosecutor gig.

As for the ones that don't even get a job in Nevada, many are going to California, the most over saturated market for lawyers with their 20 something law schools. So your plan B will end up being having to move to the state with one of the hardest bars, where you're competing with at least 5,000 other new lawyers who actually went to school in that state and made connections for 3 years.

CaptTuttle
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby CaptTuttle » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:44 pm

Nat Sherman wrote:
CaptTuttle wrote:
Nat Sherman wrote:Stay far away from UNLV unless you're from Vegas or have significant connections.


Why do you say that?

Vegas being 4 hours from the next actual city makes it very insular. It's more about who you went to high school with than anything else. There's only a couple market paying firms, and if you look at the associates that graduated since 2010 at any of the firms, it's all number 1 at UNLV with art. III clerkships, or T14 laterals. I interviewed at one of the AUSA/FPD offices there for an internship and no one I talked to went to a school below the T20, with some from the T6. So basically, if you go to UNLV, you're getting state and local government, or shit law. Which you're not even getting shit law without connections to someone at the firm. Your only realistic job prospect is getting some county prosecutor gig.

As for the ones that don't even get a job in Nevada, many are going to California, the most over saturated market for lawyers with their 20 something law schools. So your plan B will end up being having to move to the state with one of the hardest bars, where you're competing with at least 5,000 other new lawyers who actually went to school in that state and made connections for 3 years.


Thank you, that's great insight!

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jrthor10
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby jrthor10 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:46 pm

A lot of people are, rightfully, going to tell you to retake the LSAT and/or take time off to become a better candidate and student for law school. This is all good advice.

I'll also point out, though, that even if you are determined to go to law school with your current LSAT score, your chances of getting a corporate law job, or really any job that will enable you to pay off your debt, will be significantly increased if you get some work experience before going to law school. At Michigan there was a significant gap in OCI/job results between individuals who had work experience, and those who didn't. I can only imagine such a gap would increase at schools with worse employment outcomes.

Consider the advice you're getting. The individuals giving it have no skin in the game with regards to where you go to law school (except as taxpayers and your ability to pay off the loans you're taking out). People are only trying to help. I can also say, without a shadow of a doubt, that you won't appreciate the debt you are taking on, regardless of the amount, until you're in law school and begin to actually consider the monthly payments you're going to have to make post-graduation.
Last edited by jrthor10 on Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jepper
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby jepper » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:46 pm

All I can say is do not be so short sighted and say you cant take a year off. Of course you can. Anybody can. Your options are not great. You are going to be in an extremely large amount of debt as it stands right now and you will be working ridiculously hard just to land a job that actually pays $. Better to suck it up now, work a shitty job, study your balls off for a few months and make a decent score on the LSAT. This is may really be the only instance when one test can absolutely change the direction of your life. Do not waste the opportunity to have great options over your refusal to work hard and wait one extra year.

03152016
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby 03152016 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:49 pm

op, a couple questions

1) schools keep track of placement into the biglaw jobs you're describing. these jobs are in demand and are highly desired at almost all law schools. what is the lowest acceptable percentage you would tolerate? (schools range from 0% to 78%)

2) schools also keep track of placement into full-time legal jobs at nine months after graduation. again, lowest acceptable percentage? (schools range from 15% to 96%)

with this information we can narrow down your choices

Nomo
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby Nomo » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:08 pm

My recommendation for you is this: Don't go to law school.

You seem to be taking the stance that because you want to go to law school, you should go to law school. But no matter how bad you want to be a lawyer you shouldn't go to law school if you don't have halfway decent option on the table. It doesn't sound like you have a halfway decent option. You're talking about paying a lot of money to go to a bunch regional of schools that provide a 1 in 3 chance of getting a job, and you don't even have ties to the regions that these schools are in. And while you do have ties in the midwest, you don't actually want to live there. I would not recommend spending 6 figures in the hope (hardly a guarantee) of landing a legal job in a place you do not want to live.

BigZuck
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby BigZuck » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:13 pm

What do you mean by corporate/business law?

And how much debt will you be in at graduation from each school? I'm asking for a specific number, not a range of how much each school costs per year.

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rondemarino
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby rondemarino » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:19 pm

It sounds like you're going to make a bad decision anyway, so let me just suggest avoiding the Factory of Sadness (American U) to minimize the damage. 3rd-4th best law school in a market that is also a top target of many T-14 grad is a recipe for disaster.
Last edited by rondemarino on Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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UnicornHunter
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby UnicornHunter » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:19 pm

jepper wrote:Is this when the official roast starts?


It really depends on whether OP takes the advice he's being given or ruins his life.

Do something productive with your life, and retake in a few years OP. 3.4 is a fine GPA, and you should be able to get it up to 3.5, which would give you a realistic shot at just about any school in the country with the right LSAT and experience.

Username123
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby Username123 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:31 pm

OP,

I was in the same position a couple of years ago that you are currently in. I was ready to apply with a 3.2/sub 160 LSAT and ready to go to TT/TTT schools because I didn't want to take time off and the pressure of my parents urging me to go to law school immediately was constant.

I, along with hundreds of others on this site, decided to listen to the advice of TLS, waited two years, made (shitty) money, became an adult, studied for my final retake and scored much much higher. This cycle is showing that. I got into the same schools from my previous cycle, except this time, with full, or close to, scholarships. Got into schools for which I was an auto-reject before. I'm sure other have done the same and more likely, have had even better results than I have. This could be the same for you.

I strongly advise you to not go to law school at this moment, take some time off, go get a job (will help during OCI), see what being an adult is like, retake the LSAT while treating it like a >$100,000 investment, reapply and profit. Although it sucks to hear that law school might not be the correct choice at this moment, it might also be the right one.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Which law school should I pick?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:29 pm

OP: Please don't be one of those guys who, after not hearing what he wanted to hear, pouts and goes home. There is a lot of good information on this website if you're willing to take it in. There are also many posters who were initially in your shoes, took their lumps, studied for a retake, and then ended up at schools far better than what they were initially considering.

Anyway, "corporate law" jobs are not consolation prizes for people who don't get the Entourage job you really want. They're incredibly competitive, even for people from good schools. Assuming that most corporate law jobs are at large firms, you know how many Michigan State grads got those jobs last year? About 5%. Seattle? About 7%. You really need to do more research about the type of job you think you want, and how people realistically get there.

If you insist on going to law school immediately after undergrad (for absolutely no reason, by the way. Most law students take time off. You're not too old or whatever you're imagining.) you will be taking on a shit ton of debt to give yourself very poor odds of actually achieving your goals. That would not the wise decision of a mature person ready for adult life. Don't do it.




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