I want to work in Nashville

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howsthecow
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I want to work in Nashville

Postby howsthecow » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:46 am

I have offers from Alabama, UGA, and UTK. Still waiting to hear back from Vandy, Emory, and GW. I'm a TN resident and go to UTK undergrad.

Alabama offered 21K, so I would pay ~15K
Georgia gave me an in-state equalizer, and they will make merit scholarship offers in February
UTK offered 10K, so I would pay ~4K
If I get into Vandy or Emory, it will probably be sticker.

Where should I try to go if I want to shoot for a 1L SA at a Nashville firm? I interned at Bradley the past two summers, and I'm going to return this year if they let me. They stressed 1L grades more than anything, but how much does ranking matter?

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Rigo
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Re: I want to work in Nashville

Postby Rigo » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:32 am

Don't pay sticker.
Barring a retake, UTK seems like the right choice to me.
However, if you truly have a 164 then you should negotiate with UTK and get that scholarship bumped up to full tuition since you're well over their 75th percentile LSAT. Also, make sure to get any stipulations for scholarship retention removed or reduced.

howsthecow
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Re: I want to work in Nashville

Postby howsthecow » Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:45 am

Dirigo wrote:Barring a retake, UTK seems like the right choice to me.

Do you say that because of placement statistics? I really don't want to get stuck in East TN.

Dirigo wrote:However, if you truly have a 164 then you should negotiate with UTK and get that scholarship bumped up to full tuition since you're well over their 75th percentile LSAT. Also, make sure to get any stipulations for scholarship retention removed or reduced.

How does one go about doing this?

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Pumpkin-Duke of Pie
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Re: I want to work in Nashville

Postby Pumpkin-Duke of Pie » Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:12 pm

If you want to network and have a decent shot at Nashville, Vandy is really the only way to go to give yourself a good shot at getting a job there. See: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/vanderbilt/. That is, of course, if you want to stay in the state of Tennessee. UT Knox doesn't have bad employment stats (http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/tennessee/2013/), but you may end up being stuck working in east Tennessee.

Having family down there and being down there I've seen that Nashville is a great city, but its legal market is more similar to Indianapolis, Louisville, or St. Louis than Chicago, New York, or California. This means that legal jobs (at least those good enough to service your debt if you don't get a full ride and/or parental support) will be hard to come by and competition will be pretty steep. You'd be better off retaking if UT Knox doesn't give you more scholarship money (preferably a full-ride), and should probably aim for Vandy at least.

EDIT: Also, one can usually negotiate by respectfully pointing out that, while you'd love to attend, 'X' school has given you 'Y' amount more in scholarship money. Because you're trying to be fiscally responsible when financing your legal education, you were wondering if they could potentially increase your scholarship so that it would be more feasible for your to attend.

howsthecow
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Re: I want to work in Nashville

Postby howsthecow » Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:57 pm

So I did some research on the Associates at Baker, Bass, and Bradley that graduated since 2010. I'm only listing multiple Associates from the same schools.

Baker
Vandy: 5
UTK: 4
Ole Miss: 2

Bass
Vandy: 15
UTK: 8
UK: 4
UNC: 2

Bradley
UTK: 7
Vandy: 4
UA: 3
UK: 2

It seems to me that I would have a better shot if I was in the top 10-15% at a lower-ranked school than if I went to Vandy. Am I wrong? Thoughts?

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Rigo
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Re: I want to work in Nashville

Postby Rigo » Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:06 pm

howsthecow wrote:It seems to me that I would have a better shot if I was in the top 10-15% at a lower-ranked school than if I went to Vandy. Am I wrong? Thoughts?

Vandy would give you more options and those stats you posted probably hide a good amount of self-selection among Vandy grads to leave TN.
However, Vandy is not worth sticker. That amount of debt will cripple you. Take the UTK money.

Are you deadset on biglaw though or would you be alright with more modest outcomes?

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deadpanic
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Re: I want to work in Nashville

Postby deadpanic » Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:09 pm

howsthecow wrote:It seems to me that I would have a better shot if I was in the top 10-15% at a lower-ranked school than if I went to Vandy. Am I wrong? Thoughts?


I would say you are wrong. You are going to have about the same shot of being the top of the class from either.

The likelihood of you getting one of the "big" firms (big being relative) in Nashville is low from any school simply because they don't hire many associates period. The competition for a firm job in Nashville is extremely tough. They will take the top students from Vandy, UT, etc. But all things being equal, Vandy is going to put you in a better position for a better job - just don't go there at sticker.

If UT is free or near free, I would go there over Vandy at sticker, but just don't count on Nashville or a big firm. Go ahead and eliminate UGA and Bama right away. That will not help you over UT in any way at all. In fact, it will be more of a hindrance if you want to practice in Tennessee.

I practice in TN. Feel free to send me a PM.

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Pumpkin-Duke of Pie
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Re: I want to work in Nashville

Postby Pumpkin-Duke of Pie » Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:10 pm

howsthecow wrote:So I did some research on the Associates at Baker, Bass, and Bradley that graduated since 2010. I'm only listing multiple Associates from the same schools.

Baker
Vandy: 5
UTK: 4
Ole Miss: 2

Bass
Vandy: 15
UTK: 8
UK: 4
UNC: 2

Bradley
UTK: 7
Vandy: 4
UA: 3
UK: 2

It seems to me that I would have a better shot if I was in the top 10-15% at a lower-ranked school than if I went to Vandy. Am I wrong? Thoughts?


Definitely, what you see is a lot of self selection. Many people who couldn't get into in T-14 or got a better deal go to Vandy. Most of the people coming from out-of-state don't plan on working in Nashville. I've met a few Vandy graduates who gunned for NY or Chicago. While Vandy doesn't have quite the reach of the T-14, its still a well regarded school in most markets (at least in the Midwest and the rest of the southeastern states), so their graduates aren't stuck focusing on regional firms when it comes time for employment.

Based on what you've presented, in the majority of cases, Vandy students comprise a larger number of associates at these firms, followed by UTK, than any other school. That means you have a better chance/% of getting a position from Vandy than from those other schools. However, if you don't necessarily want BigLaw, a full-ride from UTK would be a smart option if you want to take a gamble and don't mind the possibility of striking out.

EDIT: Also, it would be insane to go to Vandy @ sticker, so definitely don't do that.
Last edited by Pumpkin-Duke of Pie on Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rigo
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Re: I want to work in Nashville

Postby Rigo » Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:11 pm

Also, I found Attax's post helpful and succinct on how to negotiate:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=236399#p8030608

However, run a forum search on negotiating. There are countless stories and tips out there. Negotiating definitely works though if you have leverage. It's a buyer's market.

arklaw13
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Re: I want to work in Nashville

Postby arklaw13 » Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:18 pm

Vandy person here. Wanted Nashville, couldn't get it. Had the grades, but not the ties.

If you have really, really strong ties to Nashville, top 10-15% at UTK will work about as well as good grades at Vandy. Others may disagree, but the people in my class who got Nashville offers were mostly people with good grades and who grew up in Nashville or went to UG at Vandy. Lots of people end up wanting to stay in Nashville, so the firms can be pretty picky. So good grades at Vandy alone probably won't be enough.

Also helps if you fit the mold of people in most of the Nashville firms: white, christian, conservative, fratty, etc.

howsthecow
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Re: I want to work in Nashville

Postby howsthecow » Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:40 pm

Dirigo wrote:Are you deadset on biglaw though or would you be alright with more modest outcomes?

Wouldn't say I'm "deadset" on biglaw, I've just been exposed to the environment at Bradley and I really liked it. I can see myself working there, and I know they try to use the undergrad internship to recruit prospective law students. There's one Associate there now who was an undergrad intern. The "biglaw" in Nashville doesn't really seem like biglaw, and I like that. I haven't been exposed to any smaller firms, so I can't say if I'd be happy with more modest outcomes.

Edit: Thanks for the negotiating info.

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jk148706
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Re: I want to work in Nashville

Postby jk148706 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:06 am

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Last edited by jk148706 on Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

BNA
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Re: I want to work in Nashville

Postby BNA » Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:40 am

Haven't started law school yet, but am a Nashvillian, and have discussed this at length with partners and associates at the majors here in town. The Vandy placement statistics are low for Nashville for one reason alone - people attending Vandy from out of state. The previous comments hold true that Vandy without ties is useless for Nashville work. In fact, I've heard from more than one person that median at UTk will open more doors if you're from here than a high ranked Vandy 2L from, say, the midwest. Nashville is closed to locals with familial or business ties, it seems. The consensus was that firms are concerned that Vandy grads are looking for "bigger and better" than Nashville.

RTR87
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Re: I want to work in Nashville

Postby RTR87 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:27 pm

Definitely negotiate with UTK for more scholarship money because it works. I had a similar LSAT score, and they initially only offered me $5k a year (I was also in-state). They eventually bumped me up to full tuition. Unfortunately, it took a while. They didn't increase my scholarship until after seat deposits were due at several of the other schools I was considering.

RTR87
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Re: I want to work in Nashville

Postby RTR87 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:31 pm

Also, I worked at one of the prominent Nashville firms for a few years before starting law school. During that time, about half of the new associates the firm hired were UTK grads. If you can get a law degree from UTK for free, I would say that's a good option.

03152016
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Re: I want to work in Nashville

Postby 03152016 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:44 pm

howsthecow wrote:I haven't been exposed to any smaller firms, so I can't say if I'd be happy with more modest outcomes.

well, if you're going to utk, you'd better get some exposure soon

look at where utk grads ended up who went the private sector route, most of them ended up in small shops
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... /ABA/2013/
don't make assume you'll rise to the top in law school
you need to be comfortable with these "modest outcomes" if you're going to attend utk

before making a commitment, try working or interning at a small firm
or at least do a little networking and talk to lawyers in small firms about their day to day
do some research on smalllaw salaries in the area and see how that fits into your financial plan

the price looks right for utk, but don't let that make your decision for you
i think you need a firmer grasp of your goals and whether utk can help you achieve them

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jbagelboy
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Re: I want to work in Nashville

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:00 am

I went to Calhoun's on the River last week.

ribs were pretty good




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