Harvard vs t-14 full ride

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03282016
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Postby 03282016 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:57 pm

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MidwestLifer
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby MidwestLifer » Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:58 pm

My favorite thing about these forums is when people ask a question they already have answered in their mind, then get mad when everyone doesn't validate their answer.
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cc78
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby cc78 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:00 pm

Wahrheit wrote:If you want to go to HLS, you can go to HLS - nobody can realistically stop you.

I don't know the reasons for YLS being liked better, but I imagine it has to do with the smaller class size and the grading setup.

I think TCR is not to go to HLS/YLS if you get a ride elsewhere because debt is bad and you risk being median with lots of debt otherwise. TCR is also "you are not a special snowflake" without evidence otherwise.


Not so sure conventional wisdom supports passing up YLS at sticker vs. a T14 full ride if you have goals outside of biglaw...

03282016
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GordonFreeman
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby GordonFreeman » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:02 pm

lol @ "heroic." 16 of 100 senators hail from HYS. it's not insignificant. As mentioned previously, this thread is premature so I'll save this debate for another day.

and I haven't made up my mind. It's called devil's advocate. IIRC, midwest guy, you withdrew your apps, so your stance on law school is pretty clear.
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Nebby
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby Nebby » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:03 pm

I think GordonFreeman is LSATurologist.

03282016
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Clemenceau
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby Clemenceau » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:06 pm

The extra $250k in campaign money will probably get you more votes than having a hls degree vs. T14

Okay it doesnt exactly work that way but it was worth mentioning.

mono172000
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby mono172000 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:06 pm

Not going to wade into the HLS/YLS/T14 debate because it’s pretty played out. But it always bugs me how quick TLS is to shoot someone down who mentions getting a law degree with the intention of one day running for elected office. There are so many elected positions that require a law degree that it seems perfectly reasonable for someone with that goal and skill-set to think about law school. Anyone who interested in being an elected DA, PD, local judge, city attorney, or attorney general is required to have a JD before running. And while I agree it’s silly for someone to go to law school with the goal of running for president one day, many of these local positions are perfectly reasonable life goals for someone with the right background, ties, and professional experience. It just doesn’t seem as black and white as this forum often makes it out to be.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby Elston Gunn » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:07 pm

GordonFreeman wrote:People on TLS are so anti-HLS. Why? It's a fucking great school. Everybody jumps on Yale's jockstrap, but roundly criticize people who choose HLS when in reality they are very comparable institutions. If debt aversion is such a priority, then YLS is no more justifiable than HLS.

Here are the facts: HLS and YLS put you in a better position to pursue unicorn jerbs. You have to honestly evaluate yourself and say whether these careers are realistic for you given your skill set. Whether it's fair or not, HLS connotes instant credibility with the average American who doesn't have the background to properly evaluate legal education (there's probably no difference in the education you receive at any top 10 school I imagine).

YSCC

03282016
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GordonFreeman
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby GordonFreeman » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:08 pm

mono172000 wrote:Not going to wade into the HLS/YLS/T14 debate because it’s pretty played out. But it always bugs me how quick TLS is to shoot someone down who mentions getting a law degree with the intention of one day running for elected office. There are so many elected positions that require a law degree that it seems perfectly reasonable for someone with that goal and skill-set to think about law school. Anyone who interested in being an elected DA, PD, local judge, city attorney, or attorney general is required to have a JD before running. And while I agree it’s silly for someone to go to law school with the goal of running for president one day, many of these local positions are perfectly reasonable life goals for someone with the right background, ties, and professional experience. It just doesn’t seem as black and white as this forum often makes it out to be.


dittttttto

03282016
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Postby 03282016 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:10 pm

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GordonFreeman
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby GordonFreeman » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:10 pm

Wahrheit wrote:Here is a fun question. Why do you want to be a politician?


I like attention.

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Nebby
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby Nebby » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:17 pm

GordonFreeman wrote:
Wahrheit wrote:Here is a fun question. Why do you want to be a politician?


I like attention.

This confirms it. GordonFreeman is an alt for LSATneroiticurologist

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GordonFreeman
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby GordonFreeman » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:20 pm

CounselorNebby wrote:
GordonFreeman wrote:
Wahrheit wrote:Here is a fun question. Why do you want to be a politician?


I like attention.

This confirms it. GordonFreeman is an alt for LSATneroiticurologist

I couldn't find LSATurologist when I searched the 4ums. link plz

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Mullens
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby Mullens » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:39 pm

Have you ever worked in politics? Also, where are you from and where do you want to run for elected office?

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MidwestLifer
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby MidwestLifer » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:51 pm

GordonFreeman wrote:lol @ "heroic." 16 of 100 senators hail from HYS. it's not insignificant. As mentioned previously, this thread is premature so I'll save this debate for another day.

and I haven't made up my mind. It's called devil's advocate. IIRC, midwest guy, you withdrew your apps, so your stance on law school is pretty clear.

But how is that relevent?

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MidwestLifer
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby MidwestLifer » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:54 pm

Also I imagine that the finacial flexibility afforded by less debt may allow you to be more aggressive in your political career path (can take lower/no pay opportunities that may allow you important connections).

mono172000
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby mono172000 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:10 pm

Wahrheit wrote:
mono172000 wrote:Not going to wade into the HLS/YLS/T14 debate because it’s pretty played out. But it always bugs me how quick TLS is to shoot someone down who mentions getting a law degree with the intention of one day running for elected office. There are so many elected positions that require a law degree that it seems perfectly reasonable for someone with that goal and skill-set to think about law school. Anyone who interested in being an elected DA, PD, local judge, city attorney, or attorney general is required to have a JD before running. And while I agree it’s silly for someone to go to law school with the goal of running for president one day, many of these local positions are perfectly reasonable life goals for someone with the right background, ties, and professional experience. It just doesn’t seem as black and white as this forum often makes it out to be.

That's all well and good - but in the current market/etc one must remember that an expectation of getting that far may be a bit much as a 0L.


Sure, going to law school with the expectation of becoming a politician is ill advised, but I think the same can be said about going to law school with the expectation of being a big law partner, or a SCOTUS clerk or something. But if someone came to this forum with the goal of one day becoming a big law partner or SCOTUS clerk, the typical response would be " here are the reasons why that's going to be very difficult, but if you you do X,Y, and Z and have the right set of skills you might set yourself up for success". But when someone mentions the goal of wanting to run for elected office, we immediately respond "lolz don't go to law school". Running for elected office in an undoubtedly difficult, but attainable goal depending on what you're running for. And, depending on what you're running for, law school may be an absolute prerequisite. I just don't think the goal should always be so indiscriminately dismissed.
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rondemarino
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby rondemarino » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:13 pm

Money and connections to money are pretty important in politics. That being said, social media is reducing barriers to communicating with voters. Seems like its a lot easier for nutters to beat money-backed candidates in GOP primaries. I guess that could change if Occupy becomes a thing under a Republican President, but I doubt it. If you're a Dem, I'd say go to HLS. If you're a Republican, I'd say take the full ride (flexibility is underrated IMO).

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby Elston Gunn » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:17 pm

mono172000 wrote:But if someone came to this forum with the goal of one day becoming a big law partner or SCOTUS clerk, the typical response would be "lolz don't go to law school".

FTFY

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:55 am

GordonFreeman wrote:
Wahrheit wrote:Here is a fun question. Why do you want to be a politician?


I like attention.


180

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby bizzybone1313 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:21 am

If you can get into Harvard Law, you should without a doubt attend. Let me tell you why.

A few decades ago, when Nixon when up against Kennedy in presidential race, Kennedy was held in a much higher regard by the media and voters because he had attended Harvard. But here's the interesting thing about their educational backgrounds. Kennedy only held a bachelor's degree from Harvard and never completed advanced education. So even though Nixon had a law degree from Duke Law, he simply didn't have the cache that Kennedy had because he lacked the Ivy League education. You simply can't beat Harvard or Yale when it comes to lay prestige.

The best thing you can do is simply be as cheap as possible and keep your debt low at Harvard. You only live once. You might as well go big and follow your dreams. You never know what could happen with the "H-Bomb" law degree.

Don't listen to most of these other chumps. They don't know what the fuck they are talking about most of the time when it comes to politics. Their speciality is Big Law and anything related to it.

hill1334
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Re: Harvard vs t-14 full ride

Postby hill1334 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:02 am

Wahrheit wrote:
mono172000 wrote:Not going to wade into the HLS/YLS/T14 debate because it’s pretty played out. But it always bugs me how quick TLS is to shoot someone down who mentions getting a law degree with the intention of one day running for elected office. There are so many elected positions that require a law degree that it seems perfectly reasonable for someone with that goal and skill-set to think about law school. Anyone who interested in being an elected DA, PD, local judge, city attorney, or attorney general is required to have a JD before running. And while I agree it’s silly for someone to go to law school with the goal of running for president one day, many of these local positions are perfectly reasonable life goals for someone with the right background, ties, and professional experience. It just doesn’t seem as black and white as this forum often makes it out to be.

That's all well and good - but in the current market/etc one must remember that an expectation of getting that far may be a bit much as a 0L.


Serious question -- do most actual politicians want to be politicians when they are in undergrad and law school, or is it typically something they turn to after finding success in other careers? I am sure the answer is a mix of both, but I would be curious to know how many current politicians make their undergraduate and postgraduate decisions with political aspirations in mind.

General comment -- I completely understand that a correlation is not equivalent to causation, but people on this forum often seem to jump the gun a bit in claiming fallacious reasoning. Often times correlations do exist for the reason people think they do and are not wholly the result of confounding variables. For example, I don't buy that the high percentage of Harvard Law graduates who have gone on to be politicians is not at all the result of the advantageous of attending Harvard Law over lesser ranked law schools. Yes, individuals who would have gone on to be politicians regardless often self-select Harvard, but to deny that the prestige of attending Harvard Law, the Harvard University donor base and networking opportunities, and the superior education received at Harvard play some role in determining career success seems a little absurd.




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