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there is def a lower bound. i havent ran numbers because im not close to the lower bound but if i could theoretically pay off the debt in 2-3 years with a strict budget, i would probably say pay down the debt but do it over twice as long 6 years. that would def fit my analysis. the line is probably somewhere more along hte lines of being able to pay it off with 4-5 years of strict budgeting but in reality doing it over 8-10.

if i could go back and do it over, i definitely wouldn't go to law school. and tbh i don't hate being a lawyer that much. it's a pretty chill job all things considered. but it's just an over saturated field with little room to create value or distinguish yourself. i wish id done something more creative.

doesn't PAYE kinda bound itself? like if your debt-to-income spread is small enough that your PAYE payment isn't much different from your 10yr repayment, then maybe just pay it off or refi

Mal Reynolds wrote:Is PAYE a good idea for any debt load? Or is there a lower bound to where you should just repay under the standard plan.

I think I've seen this discussed before but I'm can't totally remember.

It makes sense to pay it off if even the PAYE payments will eventually pay it off for you. So probably like low six figures debt for someone in biglaw.

fats provolone wrote:if i could go back and do it over, i definitely wouldn't go to law school. and tbh i don't hate being a lawyer that much. it's a pretty chill job all things considered. but it's just an over saturated field with little room to create value or distinguish yourself. i wish id done something more creative.

I was watching this documentary the other day about some doctor who went to North Korea and did cataract surgeries on like 1000 people in ten days and now those 1000 people are no longer blind and I was like wow I really am useless.

yea i know right. especially in patent law. i am just a giant transaction cost.

Mal Reynolds wrote:Is PAYE a good idea for any debt load? Or is there a lower bound to where you should just repay under the standard plan.

I think I've seen this discussed before but I'm can't totally remember.

I don't think PAYE makes sense under 150k debt IIRC.

PNJ. I have funds that I can't access til I'm 35, so I'm just going to a T50 for free to coast til I can access it and start making leveraged active investments (commericial real estate, food franchises; etc). You can put that money to much better use than a law degree. But another option would be to make passive investments (stocks bonds etc) while you are in law school and in your first years practicing, and then if you're not happy, you can quit being a lawyer and move on to active investments with the principle (325k) plus the gains you made from the passive investments.

Does anyone actually owe this much money? If so, they are completely and utterly fucked until they die.

I don't give a shit about PLSF or LRAP (if those still exist in a few years) - you're fucked until death. You will never buy a house or a car; having a child would be a terrible idea. You're fucked.

BiglawAssociate wrote:Does anyone actually owe this much money? If so, they are completely and utterly fucked until they die.

I don't give a shit about PLSF or LRAP (if those still exist in a few years) - you're fucked until death. You will never buy a house or a car; having a child would be a terrible idea. You're fucked.

thank you for your help and insight! this would be really useful for someone already in that position. thx !

These big numbers are kind of useless to most people at the stage in life they are at when they are applying to law school (I thought otherwise too, at the time, and now I realize I was naive even being a non-K-JD student).

Take the total amount of loans and then use the calculator to look at the 10-year repayment monthly rate. Then figure out what post-tax income per month looks like and factor in a healthy living expenses budget (don't be optimistic that you will continue to eat ramen, live in a studio shared 3 ways, and never go out).

Then look at how much you have left over each month. Then think about the chances that you'll leave after a handful of years, no matter how gung-ho you think you'll be, as biglaw associates leave in droves in the first few years. Then realize that you won't have paid off most of your loans when you are quitting what is maybe the highest paying job you'll have for a decade.

Big numbers are scary, but the practicalities of what they mean are even scarier. I do not think most people at the stage in life many law applicants really have any sense of what the debt really means in a practical sense.

Not saying people shouldn't go or that it's not worth it (although probably for most, it's not), but there is a lot of reality missing in most peoples' considerations.

What you guys are forgetting is that IRS tax debt can be discharged easier than student loan debt. So really you can graduate law school, do paye for 25 (now I think?) years, declare bankruptcy, wait 7 years, and you could easily be looking at trying to buy a house in your EARLY 60s.

dwil770 wrote:What you guys are forgetting is that IRS tax debt can be discharged easier than student loan debt. So really you can graduate law school, do paye for 25 (now I think?) years, declare bankruptcy, wait 7 years, and you could easily be looking at trying to buy a house in your EARLY 60s.

lol - what's the point of even trying when you're old? You wasted your entire life living like shit. Might as well just give up and become a ward of the state or commit a crime and live for free in prison.

fats provolone wrote:well yea it's hard to actually drop out too. but i mean it's also hard to get back on a career track after dropping out.

I only submitted about 300 job applications after I decided to drop out to get into my respective industry.

I would've rather mass mailed firms