SMU v UH v LSU

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courtpoll
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby courtpoll » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:30 pm

PhilippeStandingOnIt wrote:If you've been studying on your own, cough up (or beg, borrow, or steal) $1,500 and take a prep course. It did miracles for my score.


Which course did you take?

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PhilippeStandingOnIt
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby PhilippeStandingOnIt » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:36 pm

courtpoll wrote:
PhilippeStandingOnIt wrote:If you've been studying on your own, cough up (or beg, borrow, or steal) $1,500 and take a prep course. It did miracles for my score.


Which course did you take?


Blueprint. I took the live course in a classroom, and coughed up an extra $300 for the online course as well, so I could review stuff at home. $1800 total I think. Raised my score 7 points (low 160's to high 160's). They advertise an average gain of 11 points, but the higher you start the harder it is to make big gains, and of course, some people have to be below average (by definition).

For me, it was well worth the money. If you respond well to classroom instruction (your 4.0 may suggest that you might), you may find it worthwhile.

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Winston1984
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby Winston1984 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:06 pm

courtpoll wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:
courtpoll wrote:Don't want to. I actually got into the schools that I wanted, but now it's just to decide which to actually attend.

With a super high gpa, you could get serious cash from UT with a decent retake (which makes the most sense with your goals). Honestly, if you don't want to retake the LSAT, I don't think you want to be a lawyer.



Really?!?! So you're a mind reader? You have no clue what I want to do. Either give me your opinion on the schools I listed, or go somewhere else. If I would have wanted to know whether I should take the LSAT again, I would have asked for that input.

k

The Dark Shepard
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby The Dark Shepard » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:40 pm

Retake the damn LSAT so you can go to one of these schools you want to go to so much FOR FREE

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BVest
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby BVest » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:10 am

I'm a fan of both SMU and UH, but you cannot justify going to either with your career goals under the financials offered.

As far as how best to go about negotiating scholarships, the answer is one you don't want to hear. (It rhymes with "teacake"). SMU doesn't negotiate and UH's negotiation generally comes down to offering you what SMU is offering in terms of COA, which they've already done.

courtpoll
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby courtpoll » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:37 am

BVest wrote:I'm a fan of both SMU and UH, but you cannot justify going to either with your career goals under the financials offered.

As far as how best to go about negotiating scholarships, the answer is one you don't want to hear. (It rhymes with "teacake"). SMU doesn't negotiate and UH's negotiation generally comes down to offering you what SMU is offering in terms of COA, which they've already done.


So, aside from retaking, my best bet would be to go to LSU or pick a different law field.

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BVest
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby BVest » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:40 am

I don't know enough about LSU to comment about it, so I didn't.

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deadpanic
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby deadpanic » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:15 am

courtpoll wrote:
BVest wrote:I'm a fan of both SMU and UH, but you cannot justify going to either with your career goals under the financials offered.

As far as how best to go about negotiating scholarships, the answer is one you don't want to hear. (It rhymes with "teacake"). SMU doesn't negotiate and UH's negotiation generally comes down to offering you what SMU is offering in terms of COA, which they've already done.


So, aside from retaking, my best bet would be to go to LSU or pick a different law field.


LSU is almost 100k so that is not a good bet.

You can't really just pick a different law field with your current options; you need to pick better schools if you want to make more money. The only way you will find better schools and higher paying jobs is retaking the LSAT.

It is not as if people go to LSU/UH/SMU and go, "I was going to take that 160k job, but it just wasn't in my field."

courtpoll
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby courtpoll » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:38 am

deadpanic wrote:
courtpoll wrote:
BVest wrote:I'm a fan of both SMU and UH, but you cannot justify going to either with your career goals under the financials offered.

As far as how best to go about negotiating scholarships, the answer is one you don't want to hear. (It rhymes with "teacake"). SMU doesn't negotiate and UH's negotiation generally comes down to offering you what SMU is offering in terms of COA, which they've already done.


So, aside from retaking, my best bet would be to go to LSU or pick a different law field.


LSU is almost 100k so that is not a good bet.

You can't really just pick a different law field with your current options; you need to pick better schools if you want to make more money. The only way you will find better schools and higher paying jobs is retaking the LSAT.

It is not as if people go to LSU/UH/SMU and go, "I was going to take that 160k job, but it just wasn't in my field."


So already being accepted to SMU, Baylor, and UH, it's not possible to go into "biglaw" if I were to be in the top 10%? I don't understand? If I understand you correctly, you're saying because of my current numbers, I have no chance to get a high paying job? For example, SMU is expensive I know, but even with the $15,000/yr, I could go. If I were to graduate in the top 10%, I wouldn't have a shot a decent money?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:45 am

Biglaw is determined by your 1L grades, not your grades at graduation. Are you prepared to drop out after the first year/semester if you don't end up in the top 10%?

courtpoll
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby courtpoll » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:51 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Biglaw is determined by your 1L grades, not your grades at graduation. Are you prepared to drop out after the first year/semester if you don't end up in the top 10%?


I meant after 1L. No obviously I wouldn't drop out. My point is, I did get in with my numbers, and I still have a shot at biglaw provided my stats after 1L. Everyone is saying retake retake, but again, I did get in and my future basically hinges on 1L performance. So, while I may have to borrow most of it, it "may" pay off and be worth it. I know it's a risk if not.

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starry eyed
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby starry eyed » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:56 am

courtpoll wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Biglaw is determined by your 1L grades, not your grades at graduation. Are you prepared to drop out after the first year/semester if you don't end up in the top 10%?


I meant after 1L. No obviously I wouldn't drop out. My point is, I did get in with my numbers, and I still have a shot at biglaw provided my stats after 1L. Everyone is saying retake retake, but again, I did get in and my future basically hinges on 1L performance. So, while I may have to borrow most of it, it "may" pay off and be worth it. I know it's a risk if not.


it's all about risk management though. It is much easier to retake, go to a better school (t14ish) and finish in the top half than it would be to finish in the top 10% at one of those schools.

The lsat only cost a couple hundred dollars too and can potentially save you tens of thousands. So what's the risk in retaking?

courtpoll
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby courtpoll » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:30 am

alaird21 wrote:
courtpoll wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Biglaw is determined by your 1L grades, not your grades at graduation. Are you prepared to drop out after the first year/semester if you don't end up in the top 10%?


I meant after 1L. No obviously I wouldn't drop out. My point is, I did get in with my numbers, and I still have a shot at biglaw provided my stats after 1L. Everyone is saying retake retake, but again, I did get in and my future basically hinges on 1L performance. So, while I may have to borrow most of it, it "may" pay off and be worth it. I know it's a risk if not.


it's all about risk management though. It is much easier to retake, go to a better school (t14ish) and finish in the top half than it would be to finish in the top 10% at one of those schools.

The lsat only cost a couple hundred dollars too and can potentially save you tens of thousands. So what's the risk in retaking?


I'd only retake if I were to get into UT. I was rejected already. Would they even reconsider, or would I have to reapply?

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withoutapaddle
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby withoutapaddle » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:00 pm

I don't even know why people even consider going to any law school outside the top 16 schools.

I don't believe K-JD, or people that moved back into their parents house after undergraduate, have any concept of money or how the real world works. Bills suck, even in smaller cities your rent, cable, internet, cell phone, water, electric, car payment (if you have one), insurance, credit card bill (if you have one), renters insurance, is going to run you $1,500 easy a month. Throw in food ($130-160 easily unless you're eating pasta everyday) and entertainment (Easily $100.00 a weekend).

54,000 debt just for living expenses not including food or going out (over three years of law school)
165,000 tuition debt at 6.21 percent interest (That's more than a mortgage or car interest)
=
$219,000 of debt. That's a $2,454.51 a month payment.

Now let's throw living expenses on top of that when you're out of school (Unless you're going to be 26,27.28,29...30 living with your parents). $3,954.51 a month just in bills!! You'll need to make $47454.12 after federal, state, local taxes just to pay your bills!!! To put that in perspective, if you made $80,000 in North Carolina, you would have $10,000 a year for ten years to pay for food, entertainment, any savings.

You have a 54% chance from the T-14 to get big law. That means you have nearly a 50% chance of coming out of school broker, poor, and living with your parents. If you had $219,000 saved in retirement at 50, would you be willing to flip a coin, and if it's heads you have to burn that $219,000 dollars?

That's what your facing in a T-14. Imagine going to the 46th ranked law school that places 18% in big law.

** This does not take into account undergraduate debt**

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:27 pm

Dude. You realize lots of people don't want to do biglaw yet still go to law school, right? Going outside the T14 (or T16 lol) isn't always a bad idea. Admittedly, it's often a bad idea, but not always. Hyperbole isn't going to convince anyone.

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BVest
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby BVest » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:27 pm

courtpoll wrote:I'd only retake if I were to get into UT. I was rejected already. Would they even reconsider, or would I have to reapply?


You would definitely have to reapply. UT allows a reconsideration within 30 days of your initial denial based on new facts, but unless you took the December LSAT, which it does not sound like you did, this would be of no use to you.

BigZuck
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby BigZuck » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:42 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Dude. You realize lots of people don't want to do biglaw yet still go to law school, right? Going outside the T14 (or T16 lol) isn't always a bad idea. Admittedly, it's often a bad idea, but not always. Hyperbole isn't going to convince anyone.


It's maybe a bit hyperbolic but I don't think it's that bad. Probably well over 90% of people who go to schools outside of that range shouldn't. I totally support people going to schools with modest debt and career goals that align with what the school will offer them as long as they understand what it will take to get there. But how many people does that apply to? The typical law student is a know-nothing about anything K-JD or otherwise someone who doesn't have anything better to do with their life and a vague sense that lawyer=accomplished. Those people really shouldn't go to schools that aren't in the T14. At least by going to a T14, they'll most likely have a job fall into their lap. And it will probably be high paying, so at least they can pay down the debt. At a school like the OP is talking about, tons of those people will be boned.

I don't think everyone should go to a T14. But the vast, vast majority of people who go to law school probably shouldn't go unless it's a T14 IMO.

To me, the OP falls in that camp. He/she needs to either acquire some semblance of a plan/direction and find a school that properly aligns with that, or he/she needs to go to, like, Duke or something.

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withoutapaddle
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby withoutapaddle » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:49 pm

How do you expect to pay off $219,000 in loans? By going solo?

You need a big law salary to pay that off, unless you feel entitled to tax payers not just paying for your tuition but also bailing you out for making a stupid decision.

The issue starts at the undergraduate level. It makes absolutely zero financial sense to major in anything but business or sceience, when tuition is 20K+ a year. Unless you're attending a top 10 school, and can ride your undergraduate school brand name, it's career sucide to major in a hobbie. Then the best idea for the liberal arts major is to go to law school, and incur another 150K plus from a school that is probably going to shackle them with debt that they can't repay.

OP, you're either lazy, rich, or in a crap job and think that law school will solve all your probelms to be that against retaking to better your chance of not entering the poor house.
Last edited by withoutapaddle on Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:04 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:59 pm

You're assuming people are only going to non-T14 schools at full tuition (and that that tuition is as high as in the T14), though.

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withoutapaddle
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby withoutapaddle » Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:01 pm

Sorry, I should have stated that this only goes for people paying at or close to sticker price.

If you get a full ride by all means go, but drop out immedately if you lose the scholarship if your 1L grades are bad.

NYCFAN1
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby NYCFAN1 » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:31 pm

let's not try to make T16 a thing

Texas falls into the same category as other state flagship universities -- go for cheap AND if you want to work in state

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AT9
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby AT9 » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:25 am

If OP wants to be a local prosecutor in TX, why not do Texas Tech or something? If OP can't score higher than 154, then going there for cheap seems like an infinitely better idea than doing SMU/UH for tons of debt.

And OP, you can't rely on getting biglaw at SMU/UH to pay off that debt load. The vast majority of your classmates will be pretty smart people at those schools. I go to a school similar to SMU with LSAT/GPA both around 75% plus, but after taking exams with my classmates, I would never count on beating them out in a four hour exam for all the marbles. I took the $$$ so it's not a huge deal if I underperform, but it's scary as shit thinking that all my lawyer goals will go out the window if the curve didn't work in my favor over the last two weeks (and I'm not even necessarily shooting for biglaw/fed clerkship).

For you, retake/don't go>>>go to somewhere much cheaper that doesn't completely suck >>>>>>>>go to SMU/UH/LSU for lots of debt.

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JohannDeMann
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Re: SMU v UH v LSU

Postby JohannDeMann » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:53 am

Op what's your story? Are you a senior in college? What did you major in? any potential job leads? What other careers besides law interest you and why law?




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