Friend Going to Charlotte (For-Profit) -- Advice Appreciated

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Go to Charlotte or Retake?

Attend Charlotte in January
1
4%
Retake the LSAT
25
96%
 
Total votes: 26

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AVBucks4239
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Friend Going to Charlotte (For-Profit) -- Advice Appreciated

Postby AVBucks4239 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:31 am

TL;DR: my girlfriend's cousin is attending Charlotte in January and I want to advise against it. Advice for her is appreciated.

My girlfriend's cousin recently informed her that she will be starting at Charlotte Law School this January. I'm not sure of all the facts, but from what I understand, she wants to attend law school because she doesn't like her current job.

Also, I'm not sure what she got on the LSAT, but based on the school's medians, I'll assume she's somewhere around a 144-150 (I also don't know whether she's taken it multiple times). Her family lives close so she will at least be able to live at home while going to school. Her dad is also a successful businessman in Charlotte, so she at least has a lot of connections before starting.

As for me, I've never met her in person, so I feel weird trying to give advice. But I recently graduated law school (Ohio State 2014) and had a whale of a time trying to get employed. Luckily I found work, but I know a lot of friends from similarly ranked Ohio schools (Capital, Akron) that haven't been able to find jobs.

Now, when my girlfriend told me that her cousin was planning to go to Charlotte, I told her that she has to do anything and everything to get her cousin to reconsider and retake the LSAT. She's hesitant and said that her cousin has already made up her mind, so I think I am going to reach out to her.

Thus, I'm hoping TLS can provide me with a consensus of advice. If you're familiar with both the city of Charlotte's legal market and the school itself, please post here so I can give her some reasonable and well-informed advice.

Some numbers I've found:

Tuition: $39,508 (http://www.charlottelaw.edu/admissions/tuition/)
2013 Median LSAT/GPA: 144/2.91
Rank: Unpublished
2018 Class Size: 626 (http://charlotte.lawschoolnumbers.com/)
Employment: 36.9% (http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... jobs/2013/)
1L Attrition Rate: 27% (http://charlotte.lawschoolnumbers.com/)

Yes, I know the answer TLS will give. But I'm not sure if she will listen to me, so I feel like a consensus opinion from here would be useful in my attempt to get her to retake.

Thanks.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Friend Going to Charlotte (For-Profit) -- Advice Appreciated

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:44 am

I mean, yeah, she obviously shouldn't do this, but if she won't listen to you I'm not sure she'll be persuaded by anonymous internet people.

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AVBucks4239
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Re: Friend Going to Charlotte (For-Profit) -- Advice Appreciated

Postby AVBucks4239 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:48 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:I mean, yeah, she obviously shouldn't do this, but if she won't listen to you I'm not sure she'll be persuaded by anonymous internet people.

Thought about this, but I think an anonymous internet consensus comprised of pretty well-informed people is better than my sole opinion.

And, more importantly, really looking for people familiar with North Carolina/Charlotte market to provide insight into the school's reputation.

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SweetTort
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Re: Friend Going to Charlotte (For-Profit) -- Advice Appreciated

Postby SweetTort » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:57 am

AVBucks4239 wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:I mean, yeah, she obviously shouldn't do this, but if she won't listen to you I'm not sure she'll be persuaded by anonymous internet people.

Thought about this, but I think an anonymous internet consensus comprised of pretty well-informed people is better than my sole opinion.

And, more importantly, really looking for people familiar with North Carolina/Charlotte market to provide insight into the school's reputation.



Charlotte native. School is a toxic waste-dump. Worked at a homeless shelter one summer where some 2L's were "interning" because they couldn't get an actual legal position.

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Friend Going to Charlotte (For-Profit) -- Advice Appreciated

Postby JohannDeMann » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:09 pm

Just let her know law sucks and a lot of your friends regret going to law school and you will answer any questions if she has them. Trying to control her decision isn't going to work. Or trying to make her feel dumb. Also what was her job that she hates

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pancakes3
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Re: Friend Going to Charlotte (For-Profit) -- Advice Appreciated

Postby pancakes3 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:28 pm

Holy crap, class of 600+?

This is a particularly compelling sob story:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2 ... el-income/

irish921
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:22 pm

Re: Friend Going to Charlotte (For-Profit) -- Advice Appreciated

Postby irish921 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:25 pm

North Carolina native here.

The legal market is not large in NC, even though Charlotte has kinda been on a slow recovery path since 2010. Because of the small number of positions available, the hometown schools like UNC, Wake, and to a lesser extent Duke will vacuum up most good employment. And the NC legal employers know there are plenty of kids to fill their slots from those 3 schools. Charlotte, being even lower on the totem poll than a couple other schools (ex. Campbell), is as the above poster said, a "waste dump."

Charlotte is an absolute no-go for biglaw. But its also pretty much a no-go for ANY legal employment whatsoever because of the dearth of opportunities available to those students. Do everything in your power to convince this girl not to attend. Retaking, although usually the better option, is the ONLY option here.

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AVBucks4239
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Re: Friend Going to Charlotte (For-Profit) -- Advice Appreciated

Postby AVBucks4239 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:55 am

irish921 wrote:North Carolina native here.

The legal market is not large in NC, even though Charlotte has kinda been on a slow recovery path since 2010. Because of the small number of positions available, the hometown schools like UNC, Wake, and to a lesser extent Duke will vacuum up most good employment. And the NC legal employers know there are plenty of kids to fill their slots from those 3 schools. Charlotte, being even lower on the totem poll than a couple other schools (ex. Campbell), is as the above poster said, a "waste dump."

Charlotte is an absolute no-go for biglaw. But its also pretty much a no-go for ANY legal employment whatsoever because of the dearth of opportunities available to those students. Do everything in your power to convince this girl not to attend. Retaking, although usually the better option, is the ONLY option here.

Thanks for this. Didn't realize there were other small schools in NC.

InTheHouse
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:52 am

Re: Friend Going to Charlotte (For-Profit) -- Advice Appreciated

Postby InTheHouse » Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:49 am

If she's not taking on debt, who cares? PE screws over regular folks everyday. If they end up screwing over a family with a few hundreds of thousands of dollars in savings, its almost a plus.

Also, its not even clear why this girl should retake. All we know is that she doesn't like her job, not that she wants to be a lawyer (or even has any idea of what being a lawyer means).

anonid
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Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:31 pm

Re: Friend Going to Charlotte (For-Profit) -- Advice Appreciated

Postby anonid » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:14 am

These options really aren't exhaustive. A score in the 144-150 range indicates one or both of the following: a) a logical faculty/critical reading ability well short of what it takes to be even a decent lawyer, b) Taking a major life choice incredibly lightly. b) seems like a given, what with the will to attend Charlotte and all, but a) could just as well be true.

The eventual step might be a retake, but right now it's a matter of getting her to take her own life seriously in general. No words from a distant relation (or anyone else for that matter) are likely to to the job. I recommend going for the purse-strings. Parents might be reasonable when confronted with the facts.

You might be less comfortable doing that, but I'd bet it would be more effective. I'm amazed at your level of concern for such extended [not-yet-even] family. You've got a good heart and you should feel good. Best of luck.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Friend Going to Charlotte (For-Profit) -- Advice Appreciated

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:39 am

anonid wrote:I recommend going for the purse-strings. Parents might be reasonable when confronted with the facts.


Mmmm delicious. The "fake field goal while down by three with time expiring" of preaching to ignorant 0Ls.

Godspeed.

ilikebaseball
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Re: Friend Going to Charlotte (For-Profit) -- Advice Appreciated

Postby ilikebaseball » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:41 am

Live by the motto "don't give advice unless asked." Most of the time, if you do it, you come across as a prestige hoe even when you're absolutely right

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AVBucks4239
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Re: Friend Going to Charlotte (For-Profit) -- Advice Appreciated

Postby AVBucks4239 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:15 am

ilikebaseball wrote:Live by the motto "don't give advice unless asked." Most of the time, if you do it, you come across as a prestige hoe even when you're absolutely right

The more I think about it, the more this is more the way I'm leaning. I don't know her that well and it's probably not worth the aggravation. I just hate to see that my GF's cousin (they're pretty close) is making such a poor, poor, poor decision. Oh well.

Floridian
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Friend Going to Charlotte (For-Profit) -- Advice Appreciated

Postby Floridian » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:20 pm

I think you just show her the facts, show her the odds of getting through 1L, passing the bar and then being gainfully employed. Then explain how the law school scholarship market functions. Try and convince her that if she's deadset on going to law school, she needs to go for free and that a few points on the LSAT will make that happen. Also explain how there are better options in state namely UNC and Wake (Duke folks tend to head out of state, but if you want NC it is the best option); if she can't get the scores to go to those she would be better at Campbell, Elon or even NCCU with a scholarship than at Charlotte. Of course, that's just my opinion. Oftentimes the best you can do is convince people to minimize downside risk, meaning trying to get a very low COA, have stipulations removed.

Also tell her what sort of employment options are likely open, big and mid law hire very few folks, so if you're one of the fortunate few to get a career in the law it is likely to be at a small firm. Explain what small firms are like, make sure she is aware of what starting salaries are and how much she's going have to pay back each month. Beyond that, there isn't much you can do.

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intlsplitr
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Re: Friend Going to Charlotte (For-Profit) -- Advice Appreciated

Postby intlsplitr » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:51 pm

Anecdotal evidence (so take it with a heap of salt) about NC biglaw from a Duke 2L: I had 5 friends with significant ties to NC (from NC, bought houses here, families, etc.) that tried to get NC biglaw in either Charlotte or the Triangle. All of them are headed to NYC or DC biglaw because they didnt get an offer in NC. The market is not only super competitive, but the 'big' firms almost exclusively hire laterals. Paying off debt from Charlotte is not going to happen.




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