SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

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NYCFAN1
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby NYCFAN1 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:19 am

p1921 wrote:Bump. I'm in a similar situation- full ride from Baylor, 1/2 from SMU and UH. Really interested in IP, have the technical background, and not particularly interested in litigation. Would like to end up in the DFW area, originally from Houston. I'm pretty high on SMU, haven't heard many good things about Baylor, and don't want to go to UH and be stuck in Houston long term.

Any advice would be great. Still have an app out at UT as well. I'm not really interested in Big Law so that's not really a factor.


"1/2 off" tells us nothing when tuition rises thousands of dollars a year

what's the total cost of attendance?

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p1921
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby p1921 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:08 am

I'm primarily interested in patent law, but I haven't really narrowed it down from there. I prefer Dallas over Houston because most of my SO family is there, my family that's currently in Houston probably won't stay much longer (parents retiring in the near future, things like that) so that won't be a significant tie, etc. I feel like that's a pretty solid case for Dallas vs. Houston, but I could be wrong. Feel free to correct me if I am.

Total COA for SMU at this point will be ~75k for tuition + living expenses. UH would be ~45k plus living expenses, Baylor would just be living expenses. Again though, I don't really think Baylor has the resources to help anyone get into IP. My opinion on this increased after talking to a Baylor admissions director. Living expenses would probably add ~45-50k, minus whatever I could save up from summer internships. This might be a lot or might be none. I'm realistic enough to realize this isn't something to count on.

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deadpanic
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby deadpanic » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:12 am

I have to emphasize that Baylor has strict GPA stips for a full ride (or any scholarship).

Any school that has that, stay away from said school.

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p1921
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby p1921 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:14 am

deadpanic wrote:I have to emphasize that Baylor has strict GPA stips for a full ride (or any scholarship).

Any school that has that, stay away from said school.



My stip was only to maintain a 2.75, which is much lower than previous years based on what I've seen on TLS. I don't know if they've realized previous high stips were a mistake or what, but it seems as if this years at least are much lower.

BigZuck
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby BigZuck » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:44 am

p1921 wrote:I'm primarily interested in patent law, but I haven't really narrowed it down from there. I prefer Dallas over Houston because most of my SO family is there, my family that's currently in Houston probably won't stay much longer (parents retiring in the near future, things like that) so that won't be a significant tie, etc. I feel like that's a pretty solid case for Dallas vs. Houston, but I could be wrong. Feel free to correct me if I am.

Total COA for SMU at this point will be ~75k for tuition + living expenses. UH would be ~45k plus living expenses, Baylor would just be living expenses. Again though, I don't really think Baylor has the resources to help anyone get into IP. My opinion on this increased after talking to a Baylor admissions director. Living expenses would probably add ~45-50k, minus whatever I could save up from summer internships. This might be a lot or might be none. I'm realistic enough to realize this isn't something to count on.


You didn't really answer this: "What kind of IP are you thinking of/what types of firms are you interested in? Can you link us to some examples of the firms you would like to work at?"

People say things like "I'm not interested in big law" on here a lot when considering schools that don't give them a very good chance at that to begin with and usually I assume that they say it to get people off their back or to sign off on just whatever school. I don't know if that's why you said it or what but I guess my point is that not having an interest in big law is fine, but then what are your alternatives? Will you be able to get a job that pays off your debt? "IP, no litigation" is pretty vague. Are there small firms that do what you're thinking of? Like, literally, do they exist? I know there are a lot of smaller IP shops out there and from what I understand Dallas has some but lots of times to get jobs at those firms you have to have a big law pedigree or be qualified enough that you would have got big law in the first place. Basically, all I'm saying is make sure that the kind of job you're envisioning is real and attainable and that you'll be able to pay off your debt. From what you're saying you'll be about 130-150K in debt if you go to SMU. That's a ton of money. Will you get a job that justifies that? I'm not saying you will or you won't (I really don't know much about IP or the Dallas market), just posing things you need to think long and hard about if you haven't already.

As for the ties thing, I think SO being from there can sometimes work but it can also be tenuous. From what I understand of Dallas, if they think you're a Houstonian it'll be tough to get the stench off you. Going to SMU might help overcome it in that regard, I don't know. I go to UT, am not a Texan but have decently strong ties to Houston and when I tried to apply to things in Dallas I got zero positive response, even with a SO that grew up there. It was a non-starter. If you can play up your ties than do that to the very best of your ability. Having a genuine interest in the city should help, Houston was my top choice and that probably showed.

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p1921
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby p1921 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:58 am

Those are good points. I do need to do more research into exactly what kind of firms there are for patent/IP in Dallas, I agree. And for clarity, I just mentioned I'm not gunning for big law to go ahead and dispel the TLS big law or bust mentality that is pretty common. Not universal, but it's a large percentage of what I read on here. I didn't make that clear initially, my apologies.

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Sheriff
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby Sheriff » Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:01 am

Whatever you do just don't go to Baylor. If you decide to go anyway, just lol.

BigZuck
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby BigZuck » Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:05 am

p1921 wrote:the TLS big law or bust mentality that is pretty common.


This isn't really a thing. There are a lot of people on here who want big law for a variety of reasons but the hive mind in general would say it's fine if that's not what you want. TLS isn't big law or bust, it is get the job you want and be able to pay off your debt or bust. Unfortunately when it comes to debt, big law is often the most viable way to do that. Also, people say things like "I don't want big law, a 100K mid law job with a better work/life balance is just fine." But, that's not usually a real option. If it were, most of the pro big law people would jump all over it. Starting out it's generally 125K+ big law jobs or 40Kish small law jobs. There isn't much in between.

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BVest
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby BVest » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:53 pm

SO ties are solid, and if there's a ring they're 180.

BigZuck
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby BigZuck » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:59 pm

BVest wrote:SO ties are solid, and if there's a ring they're 180.


Not true from my experience. But YMMV I guess

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logdog
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby logdog » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:10 pm

Baylor alum here. It's expensive and competitive. No one ends with 3.8 or higher. You work your ass off. Practice Court is a bitch.

That said, I'm at a lit boutique and have been to court a few times since starting in the fall. The partners I work for (only 1 went to Baylor) trust the Baylor litigation reputation and, as a result, trust me to take smaller matters to court with little to no direction. If you can handle practice court (pro tip: you can), then you will be better equipped to go to court from day one than most 2 year associates at big firms and/or from other schools. Non-Baylor lawyers have told me this, and I know from my own experience. I have friends from my class at highly respected international, national, and regional firms in Houston, Austin, Dallas, San Antonio, and some out of state. You will have to work harder than you would elsewhere to rank in the top 25% or above, but Baylor is worth it if you want to be a litigator in Texas.

SMU has better ties to Dallas. UH has better ties to Houston. OCI does kinda suck at Baylor if you don't start in the fall.

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BVest
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby BVest » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:17 pm

BigZuck wrote:
BVest wrote:SO ties are solid, and if there's a ring they're 180.


Not true from my experience. But YMMV I guess


Are you talking Austin or elsewhere? Austin, no ties are 180.

TXMade41
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby TXMade41 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:04 pm

I have been offered 108 total 36/yr with the 2.75 stip at Baylor, says top 80% roughly of the class so seems like a very easy thing to accomplish.
SMU has accepted but I'm still waiting on the offer, I believe my Baylor offer will allow for some negotiating but some have said SMU doesn't negotiste much?
U of H offered 5/yr with no stip.
It would cost me 15/yr at Baylor and 23/yr at U of H pre negotiation.

I toured Baylor today and loved the campus and atmosphere what are the reasons
everyone is so against it? Yes I understand it will not be the best time and the quarter system
will not be optimal but I heard taking summer internships isn't a problem? Baylor seems to place well post-grad and seems like a great school overall, don't see why everyone is slamming it so badly. Could a Baylor alum back up or negate what I said about it?

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BVest
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby BVest » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:18 pm


sandwhich
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby sandwhich » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:22 pm

Tldr;


Uh is 29k
SMU is ~49k

If you want to practice in houston or are interested in IP (uh is #9 in the country) UH is a no brainer.

Don't kill yourself at baylor. It's not worth it.

lawschoolbound94
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby lawschoolbound94 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:25 pm

If you want to stay in Texas, then UT is only logical.

Otherwise, I guess Houston. I wouldn't go to Baylor, and wouldn't want to live in Dallas. So I'd go to Houston.

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BVest
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby BVest » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:30 pm

Can't argue with logic like that.

BigZuck
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby BigZuck » Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:21 pm

TXMade41 wrote:I have been offered 108 total 36/yr with the 2.75 stip at Baylor, says top 80% roughly of the class so seems like a very easy thing to accomplish.
SMU has accepted but I'm still waiting on the offer, I believe my Baylor offer will allow for some negotiating but some have said SMU doesn't negotiste much?
U of H offered 5/yr with no stip.
It would cost me 15/yr at Baylor and 23/yr at U of H pre negotiation.

I toured Baylor today and loved the campus and atmosphere what are the reasons
everyone is so against it? Yes I understand it will not be the best time and the quarter system
will not be optimal but I heard taking summer internships isn't a problem? Baylor seems to place well post-grad and seems like a great school overall, don't see why everyone is slamming it so badly. Could a Baylor alum back up or negate what I said about it?


Start here and then read more threads about Baylor:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=224879

If you still want to go based on their sales pitch then good luck

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romothesavior
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby romothesavior » Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:37 am

I usually tell people to mostly ignore things like campus life and culture when choosing a law school, because most are pretty similar. But Baylor seems like an exception because it has such a horrible rep. I obviously never went there so I can't know for sure, but everything I've read has been overwhelmingly negative. I would look into this more before attending.

Come back when you have your SMU offer and provide total COA, taking into account tuituion increases and any interest accumulation during law school.

Houston and SMU are decent options if you want Houston or Dallas, but I worry you aren't going to get enough scholarship money to make it worth it.

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cal2013
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby cal2013 » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:51 am

deadpanic wrote:I have to emphasize that Baylor has strict GPA stips for a full ride (or any scholarship).

Any school that has that, stay away from said school.


I agree that stips are something to avoid. But, to be fair with respect to Baylor, they have a 96.1% scholarship retention rate according to LST.

The Dark Shepard
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby The Dark Shepard » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:21 pm

cal2013 wrote:
deadpanic wrote:I have to emphasize that Baylor has strict GPA stips for a full ride (or any scholarship).

Any school that has that, stay away from said school.


I agree that stips are something to avoid. But, to be fair with respect to Baylor, they have a 96.1% scholarship retention rate according to LST.


Yeah, and if you are in that 4%, you should be dropping even if you were able to keep your scholarship.

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deadpanic
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby deadpanic » Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:10 pm

cal2013 wrote:
deadpanic wrote:I have to emphasize that Baylor has strict GPA stips for a full ride (or any scholarship).

Any school that has that, stay away from said school.


I agree that stips are something to avoid. But, to be fair with respect to Baylor, they have a 96.1% scholarship retention rate according to LST.


I stand corrected.

I still say don't go to Baylor, though, for many other reasons that have been addressed on this board ad nauseam.

El Principe
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby El Principe » Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:41 pm

sublime wrote:You couldn't pay me enough to go to Baylor.

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downinDtown
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby downinDtown » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:00 pm

BigZuck wrote:Start here and then read more threads about Baylor:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=224879"
If you still want to go based on their sales pitch then good luck
What's worse: starting at Baylor 1L year (in such a competitive environment); slaving all through Practice Court for your whole 3L year; or trying to find a decent job after you graduate from Baylor?

I was at a NBA game the other night with some coworkers. Guy and lady sit down next to us. The lady is wearing a Baylor shirt (umm lady, this isn't a college game). I say something about the Baylor football team and she's like, "Oh, I just went there for law school so I didn't really follow football much." Found out she just graduated last year. It's pretty loud, but I didn't want her date to think I was trying to swoop in (to her credit, she was pretty good-looking), so I introduce myself to her date. He seems like a pretty cool dude, but he's one of those super-fans so he seemed pretty into the game. Baylor Grad starts chatting to me about her time in school and how much it sucked and how she couldn't even find a legal job and how she's still looking for work. She wishes she read up more about how hard it was during school and how hard it'd be to find a job, especially when there are so few opportunities with large firms and not that much time to look for jobs during 3L year.

Anyway, she gets up to go to the bathroom during a quarter break, so I lean over and start talking to the guy. I ask how long they've been together. He laughs. "I just met her on Tinder actually. This is our second date. Not a bad find, huh?" I nod in agreement and we laugh. I find out he works in private equity and, from the sound of it, does pretty well. Girl comes back, and not too much later the guy dismisses himself and I see her get out her phone, pull up Tinder and swipe a couple rights and lefts, and then look back to make sure the guy is not coming back yet. I see her texting (maybe to some of her matches), but I just laugh inside. Girl sure knows how to multitask. She tries to chitchat a couple times, but I don't want to get caught up in her web of deception so we don't really have much more of a conversation.

Moral of the story: If you go to Baylor and end up unemployed, swipe right until you find someone rich (or dumb) enough to pay off your student loans.

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Winston1984
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Re: SMU vs Baylor vs U of H

Postby Winston1984 » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:38 pm

downinDtown wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Start here and then read more threads about Baylor:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=224879"
If you still want to go based on their sales pitch then good luck
What's worse: starting at Baylor 1L year (in such a competitive environment); slaving all through Practice Court for your whole 3L year; or trying to find a decent job after you graduate from Baylor?

I was at a NBA game the other night with some coworkers. Guy and lady sit down next to us. The lady is wearing a Baylor shirt (umm lady, this isn't a college game). I say something about the Baylor football team and she's like, "Oh, I just went there for law school so I didn't really follow football much." Found out she just graduated last year. It's pretty loud, but I didn't want her date to think I was trying to swoop in (to her credit, she was pretty good-looking), so I introduce myself to her date. He seems like a pretty cool dude, but he's one of those super-fans so he seemed pretty into the game. Baylor Grad starts chatting to me about her time in school and how much it sucked and how she couldn't even find a legal job and how she's still looking for work. She wishes she read up more about how hard it was during school and how hard it'd be to find a job, especially when there are so few opportunities with large firms and not that much time to look for jobs during 3L year.

Anyway, she gets up to go to the bathroom during a quarter break, so I lean over and start talking to the guy. I ask how long they've been together. He laughs. "I just met her on Tinder actually. This is our second date. Not a bad find, huh?" I nod in agreement and we laugh. I find out he works in private equity and, from the sound of it, does pretty well. Girl comes back, and not too much later the guy dismisses himself and I see her get out her phone, pull up Tinder and swipe a couple rights and lefts, and then look back to make sure the guy is not coming back yet. I see her texting (maybe to some of her matches), but I just laugh inside. Girl sure knows how to multitask. She tries to chitchat a couple times, but I don't want to get caught up in her web of deception so we don't really have much more of a conversation.

Moral of the story: If you go to Baylor and end up unemployed, swipe right until you find someone rich (or dumb) enough to pay off your student loans.

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