Fordham and biglaw

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banjo
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Re: Fordham and biglaw

Postby banjo » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:58 pm

Earlier this year, Spivey did a podcast with a professor at Colorado (not Campos) who thinks Fordham is on the rise. I think the professor had some relatives who had gone to Fordham law though. I typed up two excerpts from his response at the end. The podcast is here: http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/podcas ... -rankings/

The New York market is so stratified...and I remember from being a hiring attorney there...Columbia and NYU are respected as the top schools. Fordham is the clear number three. There's a pretty wide gap in between. I've always been surprised that Fordham doesn't jump higher. You know, I went back to New York after law school in 1998, and New York was a bit on the rise. Crime had just decreased in the 90s. The hunch was that, as New York -- and those of you applying to law school are too young to remember this -- went from being, you know, a rough city to an up and coming city in the 90s to a really desirable city, Fordham may disproportionately benefit. You can make a really good living as a law school admitting the people who just missed getting into NYU and Columbia and want to be in New York or tied to New York. So Fordham has always been my sleeper pick to really jump up. Cardozo, too, and it did a little bit.

...

Fordham's a school that I think is doing reasonably well. It's a big school. They can probably weather the decrease in size better than a small school. Because fine, if they drop from 500 something students a year to 400, that's still enough money to keep the lights on, cover your fixed costs. You know, I see them as a school that's doing pretty well. But yeah, I think I share the questioner's implicit surprise that, once NYC has been doing as well as it's been doing, economically --setting aside the recession -- for the past 20 years, why isn't it a top 20 school, and the answer is it might be. I also know that, one piece of information I know from alums, if you go back a generation, Fordham was graduating a lot of local lawyers into smaller practices, DAs. I think Fordham has done a much better job in the past 10, 20 years at placing people into big firms. They had very little fundraising if you go back a generation or two. It was my impression, just knowing Fordham grads. I think they've really beefed it up.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Fordham and biglaw

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:03 pm

I wonder if that professor has heard of the recession. Fordham placed more than 43% into NLJ250 firms in 2008. It did come up, but like all of its peer schools it got hit hard by the economic downturn. Biglaw hiring is down 25% or so and schools like Fordham took the brunt of that decline.

One thing that is odd about Fordham is that it seems to place horribly into the top firms in NYC. No better than Brooklyn or Cardozo really.

03152016
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Re: Fordham and biglaw

Postby 03152016 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:49 pm

General

Marketing vs. Reality

Brut wrote:The Fordham Law Difference

Here, a solid grounding in legal theory is balanced with hands-on learning about the craft of lawyering. Our students benefit from a curriculum and faculty that has earned a reputation for excellence. Their studies are enriched by essential and innovative international opportunities. And they graduate prepared to practice law--from day one.
29% of the class completely unemployed or in short-term/part-time stints a full nine months after graduation

At Fordham Law, a spirit of service has been central since our founding in 1905. Our focus on ethics help students navigate the difficult issues they'll face as they pursue careers in our increasingly complex world. Our community of alumni provides a supportive network around the country and around the globe. And our dynamic location in New York City ensures our students access to opportunities that can only be found in a world-class city.
Only 63.4% of the Class of 2013 actually secured long-term, full-time, JD-required jobs

Fordham Law’s unique approach to legal education has rightly earned the School widespread praise as a leader among American law schools. In fact, Fordham Law is considered one of the top law schools by U.S. News & World Report.
One out of every seven "employed" students was in a short-term, part-time, or non-professional gig funded by the school

In terms of ranks and measures, the results of our compelling approach to legal education are excellent. As a top law school, Fordham Law is very selective. The School is one of the top 25 most selective law schools in the nation, measured in terms of the LSAT scores of its most recent entering class.
LSAT median has dropped every year for the last three years, along with every other measure of student selectivity


Straight from the horse's mouth:

Brut wrote:what makes you so sure that you won't be one of the four out of ten fordham grads who don't even get lt/ft/jd-required employment?

what if you join the legions of fordham grads in shitlaw (LinkRemoved)?
is that something you'd care about?
or grow into?

maybe i should let actual fordham grads speak for themselves

"It's really weird, but no one talks about jobs," says one student. Another takes a sip of his questionable concoction of bourbon and iced tea, and adds: "When you're stressing for months, searching for something that probably won't even pay, you feel pathetic. I don't want to know if the guy next to me has a job."

These three students -- two men and a woman, all in their twenties -- say they kept up their end of the bargain: They put in the hours and earned the high grades. "You're like, okay, I've got those grades, I've got a good shot," says Nick. (A pseudonym -- the students asked not to be identified, fearing the effect their quotes might have on future employment.)

Last fall, in the weeks leading up to the interviews, the students say, they began to get a "sense of impending doom," as Brian puts it. Every day, it seemed, they got e-mails from Fordham saying this firm wasn't coming or that firm would be hiring only a handful of students. An atmosphere of desperation developed. "It's like, 'I'll babysit your kids, I'll pick up your laundry, whatever it takes, just give me a job,' " says Brian.

Karen and her two friends all landed some interviews with top firms during OCI -- and even a few callbacks -- but no one was offered a job. Karen managed to get a summer position with a small firm in New York during a later interview process. Nick will be taking a $9-an-hour research position, and Brian is taking an unpaid internship with a California public defender's office.

and that's just from one article
there are hundreds (maybe thousands?) of more horror stories from fordham grads who didn't make it
here are a few more

I graduated from here in 2009. I went on a large scholarship and graduated summa. I was able to find a job, but that is only because of my standing. Most people in my class had a difficult time finding a job.


Horrible. Professors are elitist and condescending. Alumni do not care. I was here for three years and almost every second of every day felt like I was being spoken down to. Extremely high tuition. Horrible job prospects. The student body IS competitive, snobby, and unless you have connections it's really tough to get a job coming out of this place, especially in this economy.


I am a 3L at Fordham with zero prospects in sight.

DO NOT GO TO FORDHAM.

Only those on Law Review or did really well in Moot Court have a big law gig.

Some smart folks with great GPA's did not land a big law gig with over 200k in debt.

The icing on the cake is that it's hard to find ANY legal job. Fordham offers NO advantage as compared to Cardozo, Bklyn etc. While Fordham might place more Big law folks (says 20%-30% versus 10% at those schools), out side of big law Fordham is not seen as "better." The Rankings only matter for big law.


and how about from a certain megaposter right here on tls
who hit median and still struck out
and has reported about the legions of his peers who are unemployed or working non-legal jobs
what does he have to say about fordham law "school"?

Fordham is a "trap school". Avoid.


op, what can we do to prevent you from ruining your life


Is Fordham improving?

Brut wrote:fordham employment has gone up six tenths of one percent from 2012
fordham underemployment dropped three tenths of one percent between 2012 and 2013

biglaw hiring will not return to pre-recession levels when fordham could be argued to be a good investment
there are too many schools feeding into the nyc market
like i said in the other thread, i wouldn't go for free

can't live your life for you
but from my own experience --
before i did my due diligence, fordham was one of my top picks, perhaps my very top pick
all the lawyers i knew thought fordham would be a great idea, in fact, maybe a reach school i should ED to
they weren't being malicious, they just graduated in a different era in which fordham was a different school
thankfully i did my homework, decided not to go that route, and ended up with a very good outcome given my 3.4 gpa (and you could do much better than i did)

you have all the information you need to make the right call
and i know there are some logistical/emotional encumbrances that might make doing the right thing difficult
maybe you're already set up in an apartment, bought some books, etc
there's the excitement of starting a new chapter in your life
you don't want to potentially disappoint family/friends/co-workers
and, for some reason, you seem to be ls this fall or bust
but whatever temporary pain you may experience in the next month or so after withdrawing will be nothing compared to what will occur if you graduate jobless with fordham sticker hanging over your head
and no matter how intelligent you are or how much you have succeeded in the past, that is a very, very real possibility


Fordham and International Law

Brut wrote:
Lacoste wrote:My bro received near full ride (~98%), but no stipend at Brooklyn. Do T2 schools like Brooklyn/Cardozo give out stipends?

How's Fordham's international law program?

there are exceedingly few instances where one should attend bls or dozo, even on full scholarship
these schools have shockingly poor placement and fail to find legal jobs for half of their students

further, i'm not sure what you mean by international law
i'm sure they "have an international law program" but it's of practically no use to their students
maybe some top students enter corporate practice and are involved in international transactions
but if you're interested in prestigious pi/gov't work, your chances out of fordham aren't much better than out of hamburger university


Employment Disclosures

Jobs at graduation

Brut wrote:the people in your group got lucky

according to their official 2013 NALP disclosure, almost 4 out of 10 students (37.5%) did not have employment lined up by graduation (435 reporting)

couple other interesting statistics:
of those who were employed out of fordham in their first nine months after graduation, 52.1% were seeking different employment (however, only 163 reporting, so take this with a grain of salt)
30.5% of students got their jobs through oci (420 reporting)

Brut wrote:p. 6 of fordham's 2013 nalp disclosure
under heading "timing of job offer"

Image

"before graduation" – 62.5%
100 - 62.5 = 37.5%

this brings up an important point that i neglected
this is factoring in non-JD jobs, this is factoring in part-time and short-term jobs
this is factoring in non-professional jobs
and eliminates unemployed from the denominator

so, in fact, 37.5% is too small, the actual number is higher

we can correct for the unemployment factor at least
there were 481 grads in 2013
272 were employed at graduation
so the "unemployed at graduation" rate is actually 43.45%
(again, this number would be substantially higher if short-term, part-time, non-jd/non-professional jobs are eliminated)

Brut wrote:also, it's worth nothing that 1 out of 7 employed grads from fordham was school-funded
it's very difficult to tell if these jobs turned into permanent positions (this isn't specific to fordham, it's a real problem at many schools)

Brut wrote:you're looking at a table detailing outcomes at 9 months
which is completely different from what we're talking about
it's not splitting hairs, we were talking specifically about employed at graduation
that's why my chart is different
(although i have some things to say about fordham unemployment figures for sure, will address this later)

second, let me just clarify some further points for anyone who may see this table and come away with the wrong impression of fordham outcomes
that 73.3% bar passage required includes temp coding jobs and part-time work
and a solid chunk (1 out of 7) of the people listed on this chart are employed by the school
the salary statistics listed are completely off-base because a) a significant chunk of students don't respond, and b) those students are the most likely to have terrible salaries that cannot finance astronomical fordham law school tutition debt
jd advantage includes the types of jobs that students had before law school and/or continued through law school. the jd being an advantage in some way is a nebulous and abused distinction. also, do not put stock into those salary figures
other professional includes such categories as "education" (teaching kindergarten would qualify) or "business" (any business job requiring "professional training", not necessarily related to law)


Outliers

Brut wrote:op is absolutely right. there are uconn grads who became successful lawyers in large firms. there are fordham grads who got prestigious clerkships. there are brooklyn grads who went into academia.

no one would say that going to any given school guarantees failure. but we have tools to measure the success/failure rate of different schools. the aba requires schools to release information about graduates nine months after they graduate. that information is a strong indicator of a school's ability to place graduates.

the most critical tool (given the range of schools you're looking at) is the employment minus school funded score (there are other metrics that we can talk about later if you're interested)

the employment minus school funded score is the number of graduates employed in full-time, long-term, JD-required employment, minus school-funded jobs and solo practitioners.
-full-time is important because most part-time legal jobs do not pay enough to cover necessities, let alone service debt. in many cases, wages are on par with those working in the food industry.
-long-term is important because you should have some job security (and maybe even some benefits) after three years of law school and paying six figure tuition.
-JD-required is important because most non-JD required employment can be obtained without a law degree. yes, there are "JD advantage" jobs, but these jobs are often similar if not identical to jobs graduates had before entering law school.
-non school-funded is important because some schools hire their own graduates on a short-term basis to increase their employment score
-non solo-practitioners is important because the failure rate for new solo practitioners is very high; if you want to hang a shingle, it's advisable to gain experience first

[...]

fordham has an employment score of 63.4% (fordham doesn't school fund lt/ft/jd jobs). wow. think about that. less than 2 out of every 3 students obtaining a ft/lt/jd - school funded job. you want to practice law, right? are you sure you want to commit three years of your life and six figure tuition payments for 2 in 3 odds?

[...]

it's not that we don't get where you're coming from. everyone thinks they'll do well in law school. everyone thinks they'll beat the odds. that's normal, it's human nature to be optimistic about your own abilities.

and who knows? maybe you'll be proven right. after four years of studying and working hard in a part-time program, paying tremendous tuition, sacrificing opportunities, compromising your personal life, going into debt... maybe, just maybe, you'll be proven right.

but do you want to risk being proven wrong?


Cost

Fordham at full cost:

Brut wrote:rankings are flame
but i especially wouldn't trust one with the audacity to put fordham law "school" in the top 30

[...]

5) the debt-financed cost of attendance at fordham law is $295,466 at repayment

withdraw immediately


Fordham with a 60k scholly:

Brut wrote:i'm gonna give you some realistic numbers
i expect you've already calcified in you position
but i'll post anyways in the hopes you change your mind
and to help others with 20k offers from fordham in the future

1) your tuition will not stay the same
tuition cost right now is 51880 + 652 in fees
fordham's tuition cost inflation is 3.18% per year
that means 52,532 1L, 54,203 2L, and 55,927 3L

2) you will probably not become an ra
according to fordham's 'ram realm' publication:
"The Resident Assistant position may be the most competitive job to get on campus. It involves an intense application process that includes a series of interviews — that includes conversations with other potential candidates, at least two Resident Director and current RA’s — three letters of recommendation and a meet-and-greet with the Office of Residential Life."
BLS estimates rent increases of 3.2% yearly
so figuring ten months rent, 11,000 1L, 11,352 2L, 11,715 3L
i will assume you paid a 1,100 broker fee, which we will add to the 1L numbers
and utilities (internet, power, gas) we will call 100 even a month (that's being generous), so add on 1,000 per year
total figures are 13,100 1L, 11,352 2L, 11,715 3L

3) you will not live off of 5k yearly
think about some of these: groceries (250 monthly), books/supplements/office supplies&equipment (1.6k yearly, being generous), wardrobe professional and otherwise (400 yearly, being generous), going out/entertainment (200 monthly, being SO SO generous considering ny), haircuts (25 monthly, go to supercuts), sundries/odds&ends/occasional treats like starbucks (250 yearly minimum, excluding any needed medications), co-pays and health insurance (i'll leave this figure out, but it could be high)
assuming zero health-related costs, a ridiculously bare budget stripped to the bone, and zero expenses when you're back home, and zero transportation costs EVER,
i estimate your expenses will be 7000 yearly

1L costs: 52,532+13,100+7,000 - 20k scholly = 52,632
2L costs: 54,203+11,352+7,000 - 20k scholly = 52,555
3L costs: 55,927+11,715+7,000 - 20k scholly = 54,642

you probably not get biglaw from fordham
so let's assume $0 for 1L summer, and $5k for 2L summer at a non-biglaw job
accordingly, we will reduce your 3L costs by $5k
3L costs: 49,642

now we will factor in fees and interest

stafford loans will account for 20,500 of costs each year
with loan fees of 220 per year and interest at 6.21%
assuming six month deferment
you will accumulate 4,812 in interest on 1L loans, 3,332 in interest on 2L loans, and 1,939 in interest on 3L loans
for a total of 10,743 in stafford loan fees and interest

you will have unmet need of 32,132 1L, 32,055 2L, 29,142 3L
grad plus loans will cover this, with 4.292% origination fee and 7.21% interest
assuming six month deferment
you will have 1,379 in loan fees 1L, 1,376 2L, and 1,251 3L
you will accumulate 8,866 in interest on 1L loans, 6,094 in interest on 2L loans, and 3,208 in interest on 3L loans
for a total of 22,174 in plus loan fees and interest

this will bring the principle grand total to 154,829
and the total in loan fees and interest to 32,917
plus 28,000 in undergrad debt
plus, let's say, 5% interest over 3.5 years on that debt, so 5,241

my ridiculously almost laughably conservative estimate is that your total debt load at repayment will be

$220,987

($2,650 out of your pocket per month for ten years)

at fordham, 34.1% of the class got large firms
36.6% of the class failed to get any FT/LT/JD-required job nine months after graduation
so let's face it, the chances of biglaw are the same as the chances of getting nothing out of fordham
you can't rationally assume you will get a high caliber job out of fordham, you'd have to assume you have a greater chance of striking out of any legal job

so let's talk median outcomes
a very positive outcome at median for a student at fordham would be 60k
am i saying that a median student at fordham should expect 60K?
of course not, too many people from fordham are unemployed for a median student 2 feel safe
but i'm trying to be as generous and positive as i can while talking about fordham
so we're looking at 3,250 monthly, after tax
minus your 2,650 debt payments
which gives you 600 monthly to live on, in manhattan, on the ten year plan
remember -- this is if everything goes right, you don't exceed my bare bones budget, you don't strike out of a legal job, you keep the legal job, etc

or maybe you decide to ibr/paye the debt away
well now you have a negative six figure net worth hanging over your head for the next 20 years
and you'll screw your debt-to-income ratio
plus you have an extra 10 years to worry about being able to make payments, budgeting carefully
if you get a big raise, congrats! but your ibr/paye payments go up as well, they track with your income
over the long run you'll probably end up paying the same amount
plus you'll have a nice big fat tax bomb on the forgiven amount, which under ibr would probably be tremendous
so then you get to owe money to the irs, who i've heard are spectacular people to work with
this assumes that ibr/paye as it is now even stays in place for that long, which you would be praying it did

you are making an extremely risky decision
it's not too late to just say no
and reapply next cycle
with much better offers from much better schools
a much better chance of your goals
and much lower debt
all you need to do is just walk away

you deserve to have a good, fulfilling, prosperous life my friend
listen to reason
walk away from fordham


Part-time:

Brut wrote:depends on what you mean by "fairing well at OCI". only 127 out of 481 fordham c/o 2013 students obtained a job through oci
fordham has only 36.6% bl+fc and isn't known for pi self-selection, so it's not a good choice for anyone who's biglaw or bust
it's hard to get biglaw from shitlaw/midlaw if you don't get it straight out of law school and don't have a portable book of business
everyone thinks they'll be at the top of their class and make law review. literally every single person thinks this.

fordham's cost is shocking. just PT tuition and books, you're looking at 40k for four years ($160k), BEFORE cost inflation, BEFORE loan fees, BEFORE interest, BEFORE bar fees
that includes NO living expenses, NO room, NO board, NO transportation, NO wardrobe budget, NO computer, NO entertainment/going out


Full-ride offer to someone already established in a career:

Brut wrote:to be completely honest
i wouldn't go to fordham for free if i were in your shoes
you'd be forgoing $210,000 in income
while incurring $100k in col+supplies+bar prep+interest+fees
with a 7 in 10 chance of making less than you do now
and a 4 in 10 chance of not finding any ft/lt/jd employment at all

even fordham full ride would just be too risky for me

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banjo
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Re: Fordham and biglaw

Postby banjo » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:16 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:I wonder if that professor has heard of the recession. Fordham placed more than 43% into NLJ250 firms in 2008. It did come up, but like all of its peer schools it got hit hard by the economic downturn. Biglaw hiring is down 25% or so and schools like Fordham took the brunt of that decline.

One thing that is odd about Fordham is that it seems to place horribly into the top firms in NYC. No better than Brooklyn or Cardozo really.


Yeah, I think the fact that Fordham took such a huge hit in the recession is evidence that firms never really saw it as a core recruiting school. And in general NYC offices recruit nationally anyway.

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Re: Fordham and biglaw

Postby BigZuck » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:38 pm

Just wanted to say nice job Brut

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starry eyed
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Re: Fordham and biglaw

Postby starry eyed » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:40 pm

Dirigo wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
Dirigo wrote:Fordham is such a trap. At least you have the GI bill so it wouldn't be as bad for you as it would be someone paying sticker or close to it.

He's not 100% GI Bill eligible, so he'd still be paying quite a bit for a private school.

Oh, my bad. 80% (?) is still better than sticker though. All the GI Bill specifics are lost on me even after reading up on it on the VA website. People throw around that you're usually only fully eligible after 7-8 years but I saw 36 months on the VA website, so I must really be missing something.


I served 13 months and got 60%

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starry eyed
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Re: Fordham and biglaw

Postby starry eyed » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:41 pm

6 months is 50%, 12 months -60 % idk the inbetweens, but 3 years gets you 100 %, Plus yo are eligible for a year of montgomery gibill if you serve 12 months... pretty good deal

the percentages apply to the maximum in state tuition (~20,000)or something like that.. it doesn't pay private school tuition but would pay 100% of 20,000, or 90% of 20,000 etc....

plus monthly stipend depending on location, i think nyc is like 3500 a month (the percentages apply to this as well)

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Rigo
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Re: Fordham and biglaw

Postby Rigo » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:43 am

alaird21 wrote:6 months is 50%, 12 months -60 % idk the inbetweens, but 3 years gets you 100 %, Plus yo are eligible for a year of montgomery gibill if you serve 12 months... pretty good deal

the percentages apply to the maximum in state tuition (~20,000)or something like that.. it doesn't pay private school tuition but would pay 100% of 20,000, or 90% of 20,000 etc....

plus monthly stipend depending on location, i think nyc is like 3500 a month (the percentages apply to this as well)

Thank you for this. So if you serve over three years, that's basically $60k total toward tuition + whatever stipend?

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UnderTheLaw
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Re: Fordham and biglaw

Postby UnderTheLaw » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:54 am

Dirigo wrote:Thank you for this. So if you serve over three years, that's basically $60k total toward tuition + whatever stipend?


If you serve over three years you qualify for 100% of the GI Bill + Yellow Ribbon Program. It's basically means you're going for free to any school with an in-state tuition. I'm not sure how it works with private schools, but thats where the yellow ribbon program is beneficial.

The only people who qualify for the yellow ribbon program are people who have 100% eligibility.

36 Cumulative Months 100%
30 Cumulative Months 90%
24 Cumulative Months 80%
18 Cumulative Months 70%
12 Cumulative Months 60%
6 Cumulative Months 50%
90 Cumulative Days 40%

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starry eyed
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Re: Fordham and biglaw

Postby starry eyed » Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:06 am

Dirigo wrote:
alaird21 wrote:6 months is 50%, 12 months -60 % idk the inbetweens, but 3 years gets you 100 %, Plus yo are eligible for a year of montgomery gibill if you serve 12 months... pretty good deal

the percentages apply to the maximum in state tuition (~20,000)or something like that.. it doesn't pay private school tuition but would pay 100% of 20,000, or 90% of 20,000 etc....

plus monthly stipend depending on location, i think nyc is like 3500 a month (the percentages apply to this as well)

Thank you for this. So if you serve over three years, that's basically $60k total toward tuition + whatever stipend?


yea+ yellow ribbon, which i dont know much about

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Re: Fordham and biglaw

Postby mvp99 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:26 am

UnderTheLaw wrote:
Dirigo wrote:Thank you for this. So if you serve over three years, that's basically $60k total toward tuition + whatever stipend?


If you serve over three years you qualify for 100% of the GI Bill + Yellow Ribbon Program. It's basically means you're going for free to any school with an in-state tuition. I'm not sure how it works with private schools, but thats where the yellow ribbon program is beneficial.

The only people who qualify for the yellow ribbon program are people who have 100% eligibility.

36 Cumulative Months 100%
30 Cumulative Months 90%
24 Cumulative Months 80%
18 Cumulative Months 70%
12 Cumulative Months 60%
6 Cumulative Months 50%
90 Cumulative Days 40%


90 cumulative days in deployment?

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UnderTheLaw
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Re: Fordham and biglaw

Postby UnderTheLaw » Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:30 am

mvp99 wrote:
UnderTheLaw wrote:
Dirigo wrote:Thank you for this. So if you serve over three years, that's basically $60k total toward tuition + whatever stipend?


If you serve over three years you qualify for 100% of the GI Bill + Yellow Ribbon Program. It's basically means you're going for free to any school with an in-state tuition. I'm not sure how it works with private schools, but thats where the yellow ribbon program is beneficial.

The only people who qualify for the yellow ribbon program are people who have 100% eligibility.

36 Cumulative Months 100%
30 Cumulative Months 90%
24 Cumulative Months 80%
18 Cumulative Months 70%
12 Cumulative Months 60%
6 Cumulative Months 50%
90 Cumulative Days 40%


90 cumulative days in deployment?


Nothing to do with deploying. Just 90 days of wearing the uniform. I believe that includes basic training as well. So graduate basic in 8 weeks and survive another month and you'll have 40% of the GI bill, but it's not like you can sign up for just 90 days. That's mainly there for special circumstances I imagine.

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Doritos
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Re: Fordham and biglaw

Postby Doritos » Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:44 pm

scottidsntknow wrote:
Doritos wrote:It is definitely an anomaly compared to similarly ranked schools (Wake Forest, UC Davis, Arizona, etc.) It does not seem that bad of an option if you want but don't need biglaw. That would mean being in a financial situation to service any debt you'll accrue paying their relatively high tuition (50k) and the insanely high cost of living in New York without 160k/yr. It would also require being OK with non-biglaw options.

Their LSAT median is 166 so if you are looking at Fordham you probably aren't that far from T14 options + scholarship opportunities at other schools with a retake. Not the question you asked but still worth mentioning I think.

Lol their LSAT median may have been 166 like four years ago.


Yeah you're totally right I just glanced at LST and was looking at the 2010 numbers.




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