Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

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baal hadad
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby baal hadad » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:03 am

tennactitans wrote:Thanks for all the "constructive" feedback, guys, but I ask you to consider that your experience, or even the collective of TLS, is not universal. Yes, I have scoured lst/abl and all the others. As mentioned, I'm fortunate to already have a few points of contact, and have had numerous conversations with people who REALLY know the Nashville market - senior and hiring partners at Bass Berry and h3gm, state and federal judges. I'm not sure where Kratos is searching, but I've conversed with people in great permanent positions all over Nashville. Nashville natives all know Belmont, just as they do Lipscomb, and know thier standards. Spanish Main, I think I've decided that proximity to my existing network in Nashville will be more fruitful than a T20-75. I'm paying for the fun I had in college 10 years ago - Without question, I'm out of the T20.

Oh they all know belmont, they just wont hire from belmont

tennactitans
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby tennactitans » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:09 am

ymmv wrote:
tennactitans wrote:Thanks for all the "constructive" feedback, guys, but I ask you to consider that your experience, or even the collective of TLS, is not universal. Yes, I have scoured lst/abl and all the others. As mentioned, I'm fortunate to already have a few points of contact, and have had numerous conversations with people who REALLY know the Nashville market - senior and hiring partners at Bass Berry and h3gm, state and federal judges. I'm not sure where Kratos is searching, but I've conversed with people in great permanent positions all over Nashville. Nashville natives all know Belmont, just as they do Lipscomb, and know thier standards. Spanish Main, I think I've decided that proximity to my existing network in Nashville will be more fruitful than a T20-75. I'm paying for the fun I had in college 10 years ago - Without question, I'm out of the T20.


Oh my god shut up.


I promise you wouldn't say that standing in front of me.

You know, I came to this forum because I though there would be something to gain, and eventually contribute. Turns out it's just a bunch of miserable people repeating the same things over and over again. Moving on.

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ymmv
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby ymmv » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:14 am

tennactitans wrote:
ymmv wrote:
tennactitans wrote:Thanks for all the "constructive" feedback, guys, but I ask you to consider that your experience, or even the collective of TLS, is not universal. Yes, I have scoured lst/abl and all the others. As mentioned, I'm fortunate to already have a few points of contact, and have had numerous conversations with people who REALLY know the Nashville market - senior and hiring partners at Bass Berry and h3gm, state and federal judges. I'm not sure where Kratos is searching, but I've conversed with people in great permanent positions all over Nashville. Nashville natives all know Belmont, just as they do Lipscomb, and know thier standards. Spanish Main, I think I've decided that proximity to my existing network in Nashville will be more fruitful than a T20-75. I'm paying for the fun I had in college 10 years ago - Without question, I'm out of the T20.


Oh my god shut up.


I promise you wouldn't say that standing in front of me.

You know, I came to this forum because I though there would be something to gain, and eventually contribute. Turns out it's just a bunch of miserable people repeating the same things over and over again. Moving on.


If you were schilling this shit to 0Ls in front of me, you can bet your ass I would have something to say about it, you self-important delusional twat.

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Doritos
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby Doritos » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:24 am

tennactitans wrote:Thanks for all the "constructive" feedback, guys, but I ask you to consider that your experience, or even the collective of TLS, is not universal. Yes, I have scoured lst/abl and all the others. As mentioned, I'm fortunate to already have a few points of contact, and have had numerous conversations with people who REALLY know the Nashville market - senior and hiring partners at Bass Berry and h3gm, state and federal judges. I'm not sure where Kratos is searching, but I've conversed with people in great permanent positions all over Nashville. Nashville natives all know Belmont, just as they do Lipscomb, and know thier standards. Spanish Main, I think I've decided that proximity to my existing network in Nashville will be more fruitful than a T20-75. I'm paying for the fun I had in college 10 years ago - Without question, I'm out of the T20.

Edit: None of this is anything but specific to me, and my situation. I have several fallbacks if I can't work my way into a firm, and will have zero debt at graduation. I don't want people to think I'm saying that going to Belmont at sticker after moving across the country to work in Tennessee is necessarily a good idea.


Well you've had the risks explained to you over and over and it sounds like you've done your own research on the issue. You know the risks, caveat emptor and all that. Good luck, I hope it works out for you.

timbs4339
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:19 am

"As mentioned, I'm fortunate to already have a few points of contact, and have had numerous conversations with people who REALLY know the Nashville market - senior and hiring partners at Bass Berry and h3gm, state and federal judges."

Here's the thing- federal judges and hiring partners at major law firms are not going to tell a random 0L, even one they may be acquainted with, what they really think of a law school. They just aren't. It's considered impolite and you don't go around trashing random law schools and get to be a top tier member of this profession (those people don't generally make controversial, sweeping statements). I seriously doubt those same people could tell you within $50K what all-in cost at Belmont is.

You learn what powerful lawyers think of a school by the people they actually hire. Just for kicks, I went to the Bass Berry website and searched for Belmont. I got four results, all of them of people who went to Belmont for UG and then to established schools for LS. Then I went to "h3gm" and found six associates, five of whom attended Vandy. That tells you something.

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deadpanic
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby deadpanic » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:59 am

timbs4339 wrote:"As mentioned, I'm fortunate to already have a few points of contact, and have had numerous conversations with people who REALLY know the Nashville market - senior and hiring partners at Bass Berry and h3gm, state and federal judges."

Here's the thing- federal judges and hiring partners at major law firms are not going to tell a random 0L, even one they may be acquainted with, what they really think of a law school. They just aren't.


This right here. Sorry dude, they were doing this thing called putting on an appearance of common courtesy. There is a 99% chance you won't be working at a big firm in Nashville out of a law school that has only been around 3 years. Bass Berry and other top Nashville firms have its pick of top students from Vandy. You have to have the grades and school to even get in the door - they will not even consider you from Belmont - it doesn't matter who you know or how great and unawkward you think you are.

A GREAT outcome from Belmont would be working at a small 2-man personal injury firm or some PI Gov't job making 40k and those will be after you pass the bar. So, that will be 6+ months after graduation, where you will have sunk a lot of money into the bar and had no income during that time. Those "shitlaw" jobs in Nash are also dominated by Nashville Law grads, and there are hundreds of them every year and they have a big alum base there. At least go to UT for free and work your summers in Nashville.

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baal hadad
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby baal hadad » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:09 pm

There are a lot of Vandy grads in small law too bc the network is good and bc Nashville is such a great place to be

Belmont is bad news

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:20 pm

Going to Belmont with the hope of transferring is a big risk. I hope you beat the odds. Best of luck.

prelawTN
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby prelawTN » Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:52 am

I did not expect actual belmont prosp's would reply to this. That's great. But seriously, if you can't get into Vandy and just HAVE to live in Nashville for law school, go to NSOL where at least you're only gonna go $40,000 in debt and can manage on your $60,000/yr job you'd be lucky to get after yiu graduate instead of getting the same job out of Belmont closer to $200,000 in debt.

AReasonableMan
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby AReasonableMan » Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:34 pm

tennactitans wrote:
ymmv wrote:
tennactitans wrote:Thanks for all the "constructive" feedback, guys, but I ask you to consider that your experience, or even the collective of TLS, is not universal. Yes, I have scoured lst/abl and all the others. As mentioned, I'm fortunate to already have a few points of contact, and have had numerous conversations with people who REALLY know the Nashville market - senior and hiring partners at Bass Berry and h3gm, state and federal judges. I'm not sure where Kratos is searching, but I've conversed with people in great permanent positions all over Nashville. Nashville natives all know Belmont, just as they do Lipscomb, and know thier standards. Spanish Main, I think I've decided that proximity to my existing network in Nashville will be more fruitful than a T20-75. I'm paying for the fun I had in college 10 years ago - Without question, I'm out of the T20.


Oh my god shut up.


I promise you wouldn't say that standing in front of me.

You know, I came to this forum because I though there would be something to gain, and eventually contribute. Turns out it's just a bunch of miserable people repeating the same things over and over again. Moving on.


Three objective observations:

1.) Your fact is true. Some top law school students are too awkward to get a job. This means that even going to a top school is no guarantee. You're taking it as evidence supporting going to Belmont. This is illogical. You're confusing a necessary and sufficient condition of if you're too weird then even going to Vandy with good grades can screw you to mean of you're not awkward then you're fine from any school. Also, I don't think most top law school students are awkward. Compared to the general population, the contrary is true. There's a correlation between high but not abnormally high IQ and better social skills.

2.) You're implying a physical threat to someone telling you to shut up. This is awkward behavior. People you work with will tell you to shut up if you're annoying. No one will threaten physical violence or tell you to say that to their face. Doing so will make everyone uncomfortable.

3.) You'll need to kill 1L to transfer to Vandy. Think first or second in the class type of deal. This school is such a shit fest that it's not just be top ten percent and you're good. I have friends from similar regarded places who had the grades you need to transfer but were not considered by many schools because the TTTT was seen as such a joke, being number 1 didn't matter. Even if you did transfer you're behind the 8 ball at Vandy, a school without great employment numbers. They will compare you with Belmont students they hire, aka you may be precluded because you went to Belmont. Your "winning personality" of fighting on a whim and hypothetical straight As won't matter.

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MarkfromWI
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby MarkfromWI » Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:26 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:Going to Belmont law school with the hope of transferring is a big risk. I hope you beat the odds. Best of luck.

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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby AReasonableMan » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:09 pm

MarkfromWI wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:Going to Belmont law school with the hope of transferring is a big risk. I hope you beat the odds. Best of luck.

Belmont is worse than other law schools for transferring. It's always a crazy risk, but there are degrees of crazy risk. If you go to American hoping to transfer to Georgetown you have a 75 percent chance of failing. With Belmont or Mercer, you can be number one and fail because the stench is so big A respectable school won't touch it. Employment stats matter to top schools. If they feel a kid won't get a job they won't take them. Employability is the transfer version of GPA/LSAT.

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby Ron Don Volante » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:26 pm

I hear Belmont has a fantastic alumni network

Also why do people jizz over "music row"? I don't know if I missed something on my (otherwise pleasant) visit to Vandy, but it appeared to just be the music studios with literally nothing for normal people to do. No restaurants, bars, etc. Why is it an attraction exactly?

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fats provolone
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby fats provolone » Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:09 pm

Ron Don Volante wrote:I hear Belmont has a fantastic alumni network

Also why do people jizz over "music row"? I don't know if I missed something on my (otherwise pleasant) visit to Vandy, but it appeared to just be the music studios with literally nothing for normal people to do. No restaurants, bars, etc. Why is it an attraction exactly?

networking bro. belmont grads just hang out outside the studios and sign up the next Taylor Swift on her way in to record her indie album

sparty99
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby sparty99 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:17 pm

My thought is that it sucks and you shouldn't go.

prelawTN
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby prelawTN » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:34 pm

Ron Don Volante wrote:I hear Belmont has a fantastic alumni network

Also why do people jizz over "music row"? I don't know if I missed something on my (otherwise pleasant) visit to Vandy, but it appeared to just be the music studios with literally nothing for normal people to do. No restaurants, bars, etc. Why is it an attraction exactly?


Something tells me you spent very little time there or did no exploring at all.

Bars right off of Music Row (meaning short walk): Dan McGuiness, Tin Roof, Taco Mamacita, the Patterson House, The Pub, Corner Pub - Midtown, Winners Bar & Grill, Beach Bar Nashville, Losers Bar, Whiskey Kitchen, Broadway Brewhouse, Bobby's Idle Hour Taver, Rebar, etc etc etc. There's literally a hundred bars between Music Row and the river, all of 10 blocks. I mean, it's not Bourbon St. (or even Beale St. in Memphis), but for the rest of the South, there's not a much more lively area.

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fats provolone
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby fats provolone » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:40 pm

all of which is closer to vandy and not really associated with music row in anybody's mind

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby Ron Don Volante » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:48 pm

prelawTN wrote:
Ron Don Volante wrote:I hear Belmont has a fantastic alumni network

Also why do people jizz over "music row"? I don't know if I missed something on my (otherwise pleasant) visit to Vandy, but it appeared to just be the music studios with literally nothing for normal people to do. No restaurants, bars, etc. Why is it an attraction exactly?


Something tells me you spent very little time there or did no exploring at all.

Bars right off of Music Row (meaning short walk): Dan McGuiness, Tin Roof, Taco Mamacita, the Patterson House, The Pub, Corner Pub - Midtown, Winners Bar & Grill, Beach Bar Nashville, Losers Bar, Whiskey Kitchen, Broadway Brewhouse, Bobby's Idle Hour Taver, Rebar, etc etc etc. There's literally a hundred bars between Music Row and the river, all of 10 blocks. I mean, it's not Bourbon St. (or even Beale St. in Memphis), but for the rest of the South, there's not a much more lively area.

I went to (and enjoyed) a lot of those places. But most of those are at least a couple blocks off Music Row, one way or anotehr, and are not centralized or organized around Music Row: You seem to be describing Midtown and the greater Vandy area, instead.

ETA: Scooped.

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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby AReasonableMan » Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:16 pm

Ron Don Volante wrote:
prelawTN wrote:
Ron Don Volante wrote:I hear Belmont has a fantastic alumni network

Also why do people jizz over "music row"? I don't know if I missed something on my (otherwise pleasant) visit to Vandy, but it appeared to just be the music studios with literally nothing for normal people to do. No restaurants, bars, etc. Why is it an attraction exactly?


Something tells me you spent very little time there or did no exploring at all.

Bars right off of Music Row (meaning short walk): Dan McGuiness, Tin Roof, Taco Mamacita, the Patterson House, The Pub, Corner Pub - Midtown, Winners Bar & Grill, Beach Bar Nashville, Losers Bar, Whiskey Kitchen, Broadway Brewhouse, Bobby's Idle Hour Taver, Rebar, etc etc etc. There's literally a hundred bars between Music Row and the river, all of 10 blocks. I mean, it's not Bourbon St. (or even Beale St. in Memphis), but for the rest of the South, there's not a much more lively area.

I went to (and enjoyed) a lot of those places. But most of those are at least a couple blocks off Music Row, one way or anotehr, and are not centralized or organized around Music Row: You seem to be describing Midtown and the greater Vandy area, instead.

ETA: Scooped.

Not to be mean, but if we assume that ten percent of Belmont students get an ok outcome (as defined either by a job that enables them to pay their debt in ten years of graduation while still earning a livable wage practicing law), how much does the community matter? While hard work isn't sufficient to be top ten percent, it's normally necessary unless someone just happens to be amazing at exams. If someone attends Belmont they should be gunning all day every day. It isn't a school where you can treat it kinda like college, and still be ok.

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alexrodriguez
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby alexrodriguez » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:23 am

I couldn't find the TLS profile or the LST profile on Belmont, why?

Are they fifth tier?

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Kratos
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby Kratos » Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:44 pm

louierodriguez wrote:I couldn't find the TLS profile or the LST profile on Belmont, why?

Are they fifth tier?

It opened in 2011. No employment data has been released for LST to analyze or the ABA yet.

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Kratos
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby Kratos » Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:45 pm

AReasonableMan wrote:
Ron Don Volante wrote:
prelawTN wrote:
Ron Don Volante wrote:I hear Belmont has a fantastic alumni network

Also why do people jizz over "music row"? I don't know if I missed something on my (otherwise pleasant) visit to Vandy, but it appeared to just be the music studios with literally nothing for normal people to do. No restaurants, bars, etc. Why is it an attraction exactly?


Something tells me you spent very little time there or did no exploring at all.

Bars right off of Music Row (meaning short walk): Dan McGuiness, Tin Roof, Taco Mamacita, the Patterson House, The Pub, Corner Pub - Midtown, Winners Bar & Grill, Beach Bar Nashville, Losers Bar, Whiskey Kitchen, Broadway Brewhouse, Bobby's Idle Hour Taver, Rebar, etc etc etc. There's literally a hundred bars between Music Row and the river, all of 10 blocks. I mean, it's not Bourbon St. (or even Beale St. in Memphis), but for the rest of the South, there's not a much more lively area.

I went to (and enjoyed) a lot of those places. But most of those are at least a couple blocks off Music Row, one way or anotehr, and are not centralized or organized around Music Row: You seem to be describing Midtown and the greater Vandy area, instead.

ETA: Scooped.

Not to be mean, but if we assume that ten percent of Belmont students get an ok outcome (as defined either by a job that enables them to pay their debt in ten years of graduation while still earning a livable wage practicing law), how much does the community matter? While hard work isn't sufficient to be top ten percent, it's normally necessary unless someone just happens to be amazing at exams. If someone attends Belmont they should be gunning all day every day. It isn't a school where you can treat it kinda like college, and still be ok.

Hard work and having fun aren't mutually exclusive.

AReasonableMan
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby AReasonableMan » Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:37 pm

This is true, but OP won't have many hours left in order to both be #1 in the class and network like a mofo. It certainly shouldn't be a top priority. It's really all irrelevant, because they are looking for verification.

OP want verification for his logic of:

"If a Harvard Law student with good grades is truly socially inept -> They are screwed = If a Belmont student has ok or better grades and is not truly social inept -> They are not screwed."

I will only say that this logic is flawed, and if OP cannot realize why this logic is flawed they should stay out of any profession that requires judgment whether that be law, finance or anything involving strategizing.

In addition, a person hearing of a school does not mean much. You are probably knowledgeable of every college within proximity of your hometown. You see the signs for them on the highway, pass by the campus or see people rocking clothing with the college's name when you run errands. This does not mean you respect the school, or would choose to hire from the school.

Moreover, most people are good natured, and would give advice to anyone who asks. However, unless someone is on a hiring committee or works in recruitment, they tend to only know their personal experience. Someone who went to law school twenty years ago, and went to a TTT on a full scholarship but turned out successful will say rank does not matter, and go for free. Someone who went for sticker to a good school will say go to the best school you can get into. Most people, even really intelligent people, tend to presume that if they did A, B and C and got the desired result of D, then A, B and C were both sufficient and necessary to achieving D. The reality is that this isn't true. The individual may have had qualities they failed to consider, may have gotten lucky, or may be right but would not have similarly succeeded in today's economy. For these reasons, the actual employment data is the best predictor of your individual situation. Law students are no more socially inept than the general population. Every field has weirdos. The only difference is that law is a field where social skills are very important, but neither sufficient nor necessary to having some baseline level of success. Therefore, a few really strange people slip through the cracks and succeed. People like you generalize that if this weirdo did it, then because I'm not a weirdo I can definitely do it.
Last edited by AReasonableMan on Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sublime
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby sublime » Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:51 pm

..

prelawTN
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Re: Any thoughts from the board on Belmont?

Postby prelawTN » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:04 am

AReasonableMan wrote:This is true, but OP won't have many hours left in order to both be #1 in the class and network like a mofo. It certainly shouldn't be a top priority. It's really all irrelevant, because they are looking for verification.

OP want verification for his logic of:

"If a Harvard Law student with good grades is truly socially inept -> They are screwed = If a Belmont student has ok or better grades and is not truly social inept -> They are not screwed."

I will only say that this logic is flawed, and if OP cannot realize why this logic is flawed they should stay out of any profession that requires judgment whether that be law, finance or anything involving strategizing.

In addition, a person hearing of a school does not mean much. You are probably knowledgeable of every college within proximity of your hometown. You see the signs for them on the highway, pass by the campus or see people rocking clothing with the college's name when you run errands. This does not mean you respect the school, or would choose to hire from the school.

Moreover, most people are good natured, and would give advice to anyone who asks. However, unless someone is on a hiring committee or works in recruitment, they tend to only know their personal experience. Someone who went to law school twenty years ago, and went to a TTT on a full scholarship but turned out successful will say rank does not matter, and go for free. Someone who went for sticker to a good school will say go to the best school you can get into. Most people, even really intelligent people, tend to presume that if they did A, B and C and got the desired result of D, then A, B and C were both sufficient and necessary to achieving D. The reality is that this isn't true. The individual may have had qualities they failed to consider, may have gotten lucky, or may be right but would not have similarly succeeded in today's economy. For these reasons, the actual employment data is the best predictor of your individual situation. Law students are no more socially inept than the general population. Every field has weirdos. The only difference is that law is a field where social skills are very important, but neither sufficient nor necessary to having some baseline level of success. Therefore, a few really strange people slip through the cracks and succeed. People like you generalize that if this weirdo did it, then because I'm not a weirdo I can definitely do it.


I'd just like to point out that you repeatedly use "OP" when referring to someone other than me (the OP)




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