T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

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fats provolone
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby fats provolone » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:37 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:you guys are acting like darascal is some kind of nervous wreck like you all. debt is all a mindset. darascal is chill and would hook up that PAYE and make min payments for 20 years while having about 5k gambling money a month extra.


Lol except that PAYE payments would be around $17k /year on that $185k from his salary + bonus in his first year of biglaw, and the tax bomb that would hit him on the 20th year would definitely ruin his chill looking poker face.

1. rack up gambling debt in year 20
2. pay no tax bomb bc insolvent
3. clear gambling debt in double or nothing heads up holdem showdown

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby XxSpyKEx » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:05 pm

fats provolone wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:you guys are acting like darascal is some kind of nervous wreck like you all. debt is all a mindset. darascal is chill and would hook up that PAYE and make min payments for 20 years while having about 5k gambling money a month extra.


Lol except that PAYE payments would be around $17k /year on that $185k from his salary + bonus in his first year of biglaw, and the tax bomb that would hit him on the 20th year would definitely ruin his chill looking poker face.

1. rack up gambling debt in year 20
2. pay no tax bomb bc insolvent
3. clear gambling debt in double or nothing heads up holdem showdown


So, your net worth is zero, 20 years after you graduate law school and when you're probably into your 50s (assuming you win on that doubt or nothing heads up holdem showdown). Sounds like a great plan! Where do I sign up for law school? :lol:

More generally, I think people overrate that bit about taxable up to solvency thing by assuming that they aren't going to have any money and own absolutely nothing in life when they're in their 50s. I mean if you're dying to be a Walmart greeter when you're late into your 70s, then great, but it's not really a very good plan for most people.

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15 styx
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby 15 styx » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:11 pm

If you have the stats for a full ride at a t30 you certainly could get a 65% discount at most Tfourteens. A T14 at a third of the price is a good deal.

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DaRascal
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby DaRascal » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:53 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:you guys are acting like darascal is some kind of nervous wreck like you all. debt is all a mindset. darascal is chill and would hook up that PAYE and make min payments for 20 years while having about 5k gambling money a month extra.



How did you know my plan? That's really unnerving that you knew all that. :|


Doesn't change anything, but it's like getting your diary stolen! :lol:

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DaRascal
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby DaRascal » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:56 pm

mvp99 wrote:did you really get a t14 or are we just talking here


We're just talking. I think my Northwestern interview was great, but who knows? I feel like I'm going to get waitlisted at best at all these schools. I've seen this movie before, bruh. :arrow:

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DaRascal
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby DaRascal » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:57 pm

styx, this thread wasn't supposed to be about me, and I don't.

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fats provolone
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby fats provolone » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:43 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
fats provolone wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:you guys are acting like darascal is some kind of nervous wreck like you all. debt is all a mindset. darascal is chill and would hook up that PAYE and make min payments for 20 years while having about 5k gambling money a month extra.


Lol except that PAYE payments would be around $17k /year on that $185k from his salary + bonus in his first year of biglaw, and the tax bomb that would hit him on the 20th year would definitely ruin his chill looking poker face.

1. rack up gambling debt in year 20
2. pay no tax bomb bc insolvent
3. clear gambling debt in double or nothing heads up holdem showdown


So, your net worth is zero, 20 years after you graduate law school and when you're probably into your 50s (assuming you win on that doubt or nothing heads up holdem showdown). Sounds like a great plan! Where do I sign up for law school? :lol:

More generally, I think people overrate that bit about taxable up to solvency thing by assuming that they aren't going to have any money and own absolutely nothing in life when they're in their 50s. I mean if you're dying to be a Walmart greeter when you're late into your 70s, then great, but it's not really a very good plan for most people.

if i'm alive in my 70s i've made a huge mistake

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cron1834
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby cron1834 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:46 pm

How do these rascal threads just keep going?

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:32 am

cron1834 wrote:How do these rascal threads just keep going?


The only thing I can think of is that Rascal has a picture of each mod in bed with a dead prostitute. There's no other explanation for him not being perma'd.

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DaRascal
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby DaRascal » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:33 pm

Yuck. Rejected at Cornell today. I was reserved the last two cycles, and my numbers didn't get worse from last cycle. Obviously the C&F disclosure hurt me there. At this point, I really do have to get into N, M, or Do Kay, or else I'm just about forced to take the full ride at the T30. Surely these adcoms won't project me to be a perennial miscreant like Cornell and other schools have! :roll:

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JohannDeMann
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby JohannDeMann » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:59 pm

poor da rascal. what did you do on C&F? im holding out some hope for you. plus T30 full ride is pretty sweet. id prefer the full T30 ride in fact. sometimes random things like this that force your hand end up being better in the long run.
its like being short stacked with 67 suited in the BB position and the table folds to you but SB limps. you are forced to go all in, they call, and then you flop a straight/flush/trip 7s.

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DaRascal
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby DaRascal » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:06 pm

Eh it was nothing serious at all. I think the way I explained it is what they didn't like. They might think I still haven't taken responsibility for my actions. I can already tell how my cycle is going to play out. M will be either a hopeless waitlist or flatout rejection, D should be a waitlist/rejection, and Northwestern is my best shot, but I think the adcom is either split because my essays and interview were good, but they don't like my C&F explanation, or they're leaning toward waitlisting/rejecting me.


Bleh who cares? I'm just gonna take the T30 if it plays out like this and gunnnnnnnnn :P


6-7 suited "All-in"
AK off guy "Call"

Flop 2 Q 6
Turn 9
River 2

"Boom!! Hand those chips over, baby! How dare you try to ruin my life?!" 8)

03152016
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby 03152016 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:17 pm

i hesitate to ask, but
what wouldn't they like about your c&f addendum
what did you say

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ballcaps
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby ballcaps » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:23 pm

post it! post it!

everybody! POST IT! POST IT!

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DaRascal
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby DaRascal » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:40 pm

Brut wrote:i hesitate to ask, but
what wouldn't they like about your c&f addendum
what did you say



Well I wasn't particularly apologetic. There's one line in particular that I think rubbed these drama queens the wrong way! 8)

BigZuck
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby BigZuck » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:55 pm

DaRascal wrote:
Brut wrote:i hesitate to ask, but
what wouldn't they like about your c&f addendum
what did you say



Well I wasn't particularly apologetic. There's one line in particular that I think rubbed these drama queens the wrong way! 8)

:P

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cron1834
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby cron1834 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:48 am

Post it or it didn't happen.

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DaRascal
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby DaRascal » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:57 am

I want to, but I already know that Cornell's adcom members read this thread and it heavily influenced their rejecting me (Yes, I know you're still reading this. Why did you do that to me?).

I just hope NU in particular hasn't read anything I've written on TLS. I really need them to carry me to the finish line. Yes NU at sticker is crazy, but so am I.

Life2good893
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby Life2good893 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:10 am

You know what's crazy? I stumbled onto an entire party of lawyers randomly during New Years and they invited me to their party. Then this exact debate was argued in front of me by:

a. a woman who got a significant scholly to Golden Gate, finished with little debt, then got a rewarding job as an environmental lawyer

b. a man who attended UCLA (not T14 but as close as you can get) and now works in corporate law (his father was rich, a judge, and paid his entire tuition)


The woman said that the minimal debt burden ensured that she got to choose her career path without worrying about debilitating loans. She said that you're very likely to be at the top of the school if you are over-qualified and they give you a good scholarship. She said she didn't regret it at all.

The man said choose the most prestigious school within reach. He said that he firmly believes that even after attaining your first job, lawyers are obsessed with prestige and your alma mater will always be important. He said, go to the school that opens up the most doors for you in the future because you never know where your career path will take you and what will be relevant to your success in the future. Leave doors open.

Perhaps there is some equilibrium to be reached- a less extreme version of the opposite views....

BigZuck
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby BigZuck » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:18 am

georgetownhopeful893 wrote:You know what's crazy? I stumbled onto an entire party of lawyers randomly during New Years and they invited me to their party. Then this exact debate was argued in front of me by:

a. a woman who got a significant scholly to Golden Gate, finished with little debt, then got a rewarding job as an environmental lawyer

b. a man who attended UCLA (not T14 but as close as you can get) and now works in corporate law (his father was rich, a judge, and paid his entire tuition)


The woman said that the minimal debt burden ensured that she got to choose her career path without worrying about debilitating loans. She said that you're very likely to be at the top of the school if you are over-qualified and they give you a good scholarship. She said she didn't regret it at all.

The man said choose the most prestigious school within reach. He said that he firmly believes that even after attaining your first job, lawyers are obsessed with prestige and your alma mater will always be important. He said, go to the school that opens up the most doors for you in the future because you never know where your career path will take you and what will be relevant to your success in the future. Leave doors open.

Perhaps there is some equilibrium to be reached- a less extreme version of the opposite views....

:P

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Winston1984
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby Winston1984 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:04 pm

BigZuck wrote:
georgetownhopeful893 wrote:You know what's crazy? I stumbled onto an entire party of lawyers randomly during New Years and they invited me to their party. Then this exact debate was argued in front of me by:

a. a woman who got a significant scholly to Golden Gate, finished with little debt, then got a rewarding job as an environmental lawyer

b. a man who attended UCLA (not T14 but as close as you can get) and now works in corporate law (his father was rich, a judge, and paid his entire tuition)


The woman said that the minimal debt burden ensured that she got to choose her career path without worrying about debilitating loans. She said that you're very likely to be at the top of the school if you are over-qualified and they give you a good scholarship. She said she didn't regret it at all.

The man said choose the most prestigious school within reach. He said that he firmly believes that even after attaining your first job, lawyers are obsessed with prestige and your alma mater will always be important. He said, go to the school that opens up the most doors for you in the future because you never know where your career path will take you and what will be relevant to your success in the future. Leave doors open.

Perhaps there is some equilibrium to be reached- a less extreme version of the opposite views....

:P

:lol: :P

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby XxSpyKEx » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:15 pm

Life2good893 wrote:You know what's crazy? I stumbled onto an entire party of lawyers randomly during New Years and they invited me to their party. Then this exact debate was argued in front of me by:

a. a woman who got a significant scholly to Golden Gate, finished with little debt, then got a rewarding job as an environmental lawyer

b. a man who attended UCLA (not T14 but as close as you can get) and now works in corporate law (his father was rich, a judge, and paid his entire tuition)


The woman said that the minimal debt burden ensured that she got to choose her career path without worrying about debilitating loans. She said that you're very likely to be at the top of the school if you are over-qualified and they give you a good scholarship. She said she didn't regret it at all.

The man said choose the most prestigious school within reach. He said that he firmly believes that even after attaining your first job, lawyers are obsessed with prestige and your alma mater will always be important. He said, go to the school that opens up the most doors for you in the future because you never know where your career path will take you and what will be relevant to your success in the future. Leave doors open.

Perhaps there is some equilibrium to be reached- a less extreme version of the opposite views....


They are both correct (except the bit about being very likely to be at the top of the class if you're over-qualified based on LSAT and UGPA--there are plenty of people who receive significant scholarships but wind up doing badly in law school). It really all depends on what your career goals are. The legal industry is overly obsessed with prestige (in a way that many other fields aren't), but that's only true to the extent that you are interested in the super prestigious jobs (e.g. fed clerkships, biglaw, etc). There are plenty of people who attend law school with lower goals (e.g. being an local DA, personal injury lawyer, etc.) and prestige doesn't matter much in those realms. If, on the other hand, you want to be a corporate attorney at a top firm in manhattan, prestige matters a ton. Even with top grades at a lower ranked school, I think your options are going to be a lot more limited later in your career than they are if you have a shiny t14 diploma. In other words, just because you graduate #1 from a TTT and get into biglaw, it doesn't mean you're going to have the same career options down the road as you might have as an average HLS grad.

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fats provolone
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby fats provolone » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:16 pm

In other words, just because you graduate #1 from a TTT and get into biglaw, it doesn't mean you're going to have the same career options down the road as you might have as an average HLS grad.

do you have any examples

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby XxSpyKEx » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:40 pm

fats provolone wrote:
In other words, just because you graduate #1 from a TTT and get into biglaw, it doesn't mean you're going to have the same career options down the road as you might have as an average HLS grad.

do you have any examples


Just look at pretty much all the judges on the federal bench. Or the vast majority of biglaw partners. Or really any legal position that's really prestigious. You will find some TTT grads in each of those categories, but it's extremely limited relative to the number of people you're going to see from the top law schools. In the corporate attorney example, just think about how much easier it is go in-house at a fortune 500 company as an average HLS grad than as a TTT grad (even if you were #1 in your class). Not saying the TTT grad is going to become homeless, but the HLS grad has a lot more better options (although a part of that is just the professional network you get coming from a school like HLS relative to the network you get from a TTT, where the vast majority of your peers aren't going to find any type of lucrative work and most are lucky to find any legal employment).

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AreJay711
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:12 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
fats provolone wrote:
In other words, just because you graduate #1 from a TTT and get into biglaw, it doesn't mean you're going to have the same career options down the road as you might have as an average HLS grad.

do you have any examples


Just look at pretty much all the judges on the federal bench. Or the vast majority of biglaw partners. Or really any legal position that's really prestigious. You will find some TTT grads in each of those categories, but it's extremely limited relative to the number of people you're going to see from the top law schools. In the corporate attorney example, just think about how much easier it is go in-house at a fortune 500 company as an average HLS grad than as a TTT grad (even if you were #1 in your class). Not saying the TTT grad is going to become homeless, but the HLS grad has a lot more better options (although a part of that is just the professional network you get coming from a school like HLS relative to the network you get from a TTT, where the vast majority of your peers aren't going to find any type of lucrative work and most are lucky to find any legal employment).


Well there is a correlation / causation question here, but I mostly agree with you. I think almost the entire reason is because of networking though. Biglaw keeps those who can make the most $. Being from a better school means you know more people who can get you work. Same deal with Fed judges and Harvard and Yale grads -- those guys know people will be or will know future senators and politically connected people.




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