T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

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DaRascal
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T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby DaRascal » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:54 pm

Which would you pick and why? Assuming you don't care where you work, you just want to get a job.

NYCFAN1
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby NYCFAN1 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:57 pm

no t14 is worth sticker loans unless you're 100% committed to PI and using LRAP

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crazycanuck
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby crazycanuck » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:05 pm

Sticker is terrible and should never be considered by anyone, ever.

Here's the basic scenario:
Debt = 270k
Big law salary = 96k after taxes (what people seem to quote on here a lot)

That's 8k per month after taxes. Seems like a lot right?
At 7% interest, the 10 year repayment is 3.1k on that debt. So after taxes and debt payments your cash flow is 4865. This is 58k a year. So now you're in biglaw and you're working a lot, you bill 2200 hours, but really you worked 2800 because you can't bill exert second you work.

So after loan payments and taxes your hourly wage is 21 bucks an hour.

I guess there may be te option of doing alternative payment methods and hoping congress and the boomers decide to bail you out.

Either option for a person with sticker debt is absolutely terrible. Saddling yourself wth 250k in non dischargeable debt for an asset that cannot be resold should not even be legal, let alone an option.

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Zero99
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby Zero99 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:06 pm

T30 - no question. Better than that is significant scholly at a t14, of course.

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DaRascal
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby DaRascal » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:15 pm

Why do so many people on TLS choose to go to a T14 with an insignificant or no scholarship? (Aside from the people who can finance a large part of the cost without loans) Are the opportunities really that much better 5 years out if you can take care of the loans?

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whitespider
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby whitespider » Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:35 pm

NYCFAN1 wrote:no t14 is worth sticker loans unless you're 100% committed to PI and using LRAP

03152016
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby 03152016 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:36 pm

ok rascal

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:38 pm

I chose T30 and I actually had 60k from Duke/UVA. Personal reasons for the choice + a little bit older student + didn't want to move and relocate/miss friends + not sure how much I would like the law + the economy was still extremely shitty.

I'm graduating in May, and I have done really well (top 5%) and got big law.

I wouldn't recommend that anyone choose T14 at sticker that would really be insane

I think full ride is a great option for a lot of reasons, including that if you get bad grades or hate law you can drop out after a semester or the first year and all you've lost is the time

Feel free to PM me

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DaRascal
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby DaRascal » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:41 pm

Hmmm ok. Well I ED'ed to a T14 where my chances were lukewarm to begin with and I'm really hoping I get WL'ed or deferred to the RD pool. It wasn't a smart decision to do that. :P


This is strange though. Whenever I've seen similar threads about this topic in the past, the prevailing sentiments have always been in favor of the elite schools for a lot of debt and not the regionals for free. Maybe this thread just needs more input.

NYCFAN1
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby NYCFAN1 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:30 pm

DaRascal wrote:Hmmm ok. Well I ED'ed to a T14 where my chances were lukewarm to begin with and I'm really hoping I get WL'ed or deferred to the RD pool. It wasn't a smart decision to do that. :P


This is strange though. Whenever I've seen similar threads about this topic in the past, the prevailing sentiments have always been in favor of the elite schools for a lot of debt and not the regionals for free. Maybe this thread just needs more input.


don't underestimate the amount of people who have parents helping them foot the bill

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MikeSpivey
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby MikeSpivey » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:02 am

I negotiate the full scholarship for t14 money. Should be a breeze.

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WeeBey
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby WeeBey » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:02 am

It depends on what your goals are. If BigLaw is not what you want, the t30 is better no doubt. People love to say biglaw is overrated and lasts only 5 years, but after you can exist into great jobs with a better work life balance that are only attainable after a biglaw stint. If thats what you want the t14 is better.

But the real answer is retake. Unless you want rich parents.

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DaRascal
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby DaRascal » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:23 am

MikeSpivey wrote:I negotiate the full scholarship for t14 money. Should be a breeze.


Wouldn't that be hard to do if your numbers got you no scholarship money in the first place? And I remember reading that some schools will only negotiate if you show them a scholarship offer from a peer school. What if you're a URM with a low LSAT score or a reverse splitter who is more than a few points below the school's LSAT median? I thought that only worked if you had somewhat desirable numbers for the school who accepted you at sticker price.

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DaRascal
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby DaRascal » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:24 am

canadianbrother wrote:It depends on what your goals are. If BigLaw is not what you want, the t30 is better no doubt. People love to say biglaw is overrated and lasts only 5 years, but after you can exist into great jobs with a better work life balance that are only attainable after a biglaw stint. If thats what you want the t14 is better.

But the real answer is retake. Unless you want rich parents.



Hmmmm.. maybe T14 at sticker is legit after all now that you put it that way.

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unodostres
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby unodostres » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:51 am

DaRascal wrote:Hmmm ok. Well I ED'ed to a T14 where my chances were lukewarm to begin with and I'm really hoping I get WL'ed or deferred to the RD pool. It wasn't a smart decision to do that. :P


This is strange though. Whenever I've seen similar threads about this topic in the past, the prevailing sentiments have always been in favor of the elite schools for a lot of debt and not the regionals for free. Maybe this thread just needs more input.



Maybe you don't understand temporal relationships

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RZ5646
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby RZ5646 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:15 am

If this isn't just a hypothetical, would you mind posting your numbers and general impression of your softs (weak, average, strong, etc.)? I'm curious about what it takes to get a full ride in the T1.

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WeeBey
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby WeeBey » Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:20 am

DaRascal wrote:
canadianbrother wrote:It depends on what your goals are. If BigLaw is not what you want, the t30 is better no doubt. People love to say biglaw is overrated and lasts only 5 years, but after you can exist into great jobs with a better work life balance that are only attainable after a biglaw stint. If thats what you want the t14 is better.

But the real answer is retake. Unless you want rich parents.



Hmmmm.. maybe T14 at sticker is legit after all now that you put it that way.


You can live frugally and pay off sticker debt in 5years of biglaw. But did you really work that hard in life to get where you are and spend your 20s working biglaw hours and have 0 net worth to show for it after 5 years?

I didn't say it's a good idea, it's just a better idea than t30 if you want big law and big law exists. If my best option was CCN sticker I'd take it, but sticker at a 7-14 I'm definately retaking.

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KMart
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby KMart » Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:40 am

T30 - what threads did you see that said otherwise?

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eriedoctrine
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby eriedoctrine » Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:51 am

Depends what T30 and what T14.

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DaRascal
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby DaRascal » Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:05 am

canadianbrother wrote:
You can live frugally and pay off sticker debt in 5years of biglaw. But did you really work that hard in life to get where you are and spend your 20s working biglaw hours and have 0 net worth to show for it after 5 years?




Say you go to a T30 with a full tuition scholarship, but have to take out $30-$40k in loans to cover living expenses/books/etc. Since your most likely outcome is a job that pays ~$50k/year, wouldn't you be in a similar position as someone who takes out $200k for a T14 (and gets a biglaw job) with the only difference being that in year 6 out of law school (or whenever you break even on the loans) your net worth might still be in the $50-70k range whereas the other person's could be in the $300k+ range?

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whitespider
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby whitespider » Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:11 am

Sounds good in theory, but I'm not sure 6+ years of big law is a likely outcome, even within the T14.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby ManoftheHour » Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:17 am

DaRascal wrote:Say you go to a T30 with a full tuition scholarship, but have to take out $30-$40k in loans to cover living expenses/books/etc. Since your most likely outcome is a job that pays ~$50k/year, wouldn't you be in a similar position as someone who takes out $200k for a T14 (and gets a biglaw job) with the only difference being that in year 6 out of law school (or whenever you break even on the loans) your net worth might still be in the $50-70k range whereas the other person's could be in the $300k+ range?


And what if you're below median at both and strike out?

BigZuck
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby BigZuck » Sat Nov 22, 2014 3:51 am

I thought the rascal wasn't allowed out of his cage?

Anyway: Retake

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DaRascal
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby DaRascal » Sat Nov 22, 2014 7:13 am

eriedoctrine wrote:Depends what T30 and what T14.



Let's say Northwesten sticker vs. good Midwestern regional (Illinois/Iowa/Notre Dame) with full tuition $$$$?

BigZuck
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Re: T14 Sticker vs. T30 Full Tuition Scholly

Postby BigZuck » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:50 am

DaRascal wrote:
eriedoctrine wrote:Depends what T30 and what T14.



Let's say Northwesten sticker vs. good Midwestern regional (Illinois/Iowa/Notre Dame) with full tuition $$$$?


You're not from the Midwest and you didn't apply ED to Northwestern. This hypo is useless, it's much too dependent on the individual and this one doesn't apply to you.




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