Temple Law - employment prospects? 60k job after graduation? Forum

[miles2go-b4Isleep]

Joined this forum just so I can ask this question. I'm especially interested in input from law students or people on "the other side". My question is basically, what are your feelings on entering a tier 2 law school (i.e.: Temple Law) in this economy if I want to make a minimum of 60k after law school? Is it worth the investment? Basically, I'm looking for opinions, anecdotes, or observations from similarly people in similarly positioned schools.

***Now I've gathered up some research here so that people don't bother looking.***

TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Beasley Law School
----------------------------------------------
- TEMPLE is ranked 61st.
- Median LSAT and GPA are 160 and 3.4
- 2013 matriculating students were 295.
- Located in Philadelphia.
- Other law competition in the area include UPenn, Penn State, Villanova, St. Johns, Drexel, and perhaps Rutgers.
- LST gives TEMPLE a 59% employment score.
- Of 2013 class, 75% were employed full time, but only 59% in jobs requiring bar passage.
- Underemployment was 23%. Unemployment was 12.5%.
- 11% of last year's class made it to BigLaw.
- Temple NALP data and LST figures indicates that salary for 25%, 50%, and 75% to be 48k, 60k, and 80k, respectively. *This data is based on only 50% of student body who *actually* responded.
- LST further states that at least 25% of graduates are making 60k or more.
- The school's website says that the figures for those of the 2013 class working in *law firms* (37% of graduates), salary figures are 54k, 70k, and 126k for 25%, 50%, and 75%, respectively.
- Tuition for me would be about 80k total (roughtly 20k/yr, but I guess this is adjusted for accrued interest, and a few other expenses such as insurance, books, etc. using the CoA calculator on the site.) I do have my own home, so no rent / room & board fees. This number is rounded up and assumes a worst case scenario but, Temple does 53% of its students a 7.5k tuition discount.

These are the school's numbers. My numbers are 158 LSAT and 3.88 GPA from UPenn. Unfortunately LSAT score cannot be raised by much more. I am giving it another shot and based on scores I am getting under many practice tests in timed conditions, I am not doing much better. Before you ask, yes I have studied very hard and for very long. I am one of those people that just doesn't do well on it for various reasons. At 42% acceptance rate, I figure I have a decent chance of getting into Temple. Whether I should is another question. Why Temple, specifically? Life reasons: the fact that I have family, friends, a girlfriend, my own house here, and that I want to continue to work in the area after graduation.

But numbers are one thing, and I don't especially trust these numbers given that only 49.5% of the class responded. It makes me wonder why it was that the rest of the class didn't want to respond... Law schools, whose very survival depends on rankings, have also been known to cook their books. This is why I'm addressing this crowd hoping maybe for some relevant comments / personal anecdotes. I assume that at least some of you are already in law school and have graduated and can comment on the job market currently and can more accurately tell me how things are on the other side?

Given the above statistics, given the current job market, and given my necessity to obtain a job that pays at least 60k after law school (at least 25% of graduating law class, according to LST), is it worth going to Temple law and graduating in 2019? Is the job market ever bouncing back?

Also, on a related note, what are some "hot" legal fields right now?

Appreciate all input! Thanks for reading my post!

[deadpanic]

Also, on a related note, what are some "hot" legal fields right now?

Appreciate all input! Thanks for reading my post!

None

Temple may be a good option for virtually free but you will have to get really lucky and get an ADA/PD or small firm gig making anywhere from ~40-55k. A 60k legal job would be a great outcome from there. A few at the very top of the class will probably get big law but not really worth mentioning. The rest won't get legal jobs at all.

[pancakes3]

You're studying for the LSAT wrong. If not wrong, at least not optimally. A 165 is well within your reach if not higher. Not to mention a 3.88 Upenn grad shouldn't have to go to law school to find a 60k job.

[03152016]

(assuming this isn't troll)

so let me get this straight

u went to penn for ug
and now u want to go to temple

isn't that like ordering the lobster tartine at jean georges
and then finishing ur meal with 7-11 doritos loaded cheese fritters

[baal hadad]

Also, on a related note, what are some "hot" legal fields right now?

Appreciate all input! Thanks for reading my post!

None

Temple may be a good option for virtually free but you will have to get really lucky and get an ADA/PD or small firm gig making anywhere from ~40-55k. A 60k legal job would be a great outcome from there. A few at the very top of the class will probably get big law but not really worth mentioning. The rest won't get legal jobs at all.

cr bro

[miles2go-b4Isleep]

Also, on a related note, what are some "hot" legal fields right now?

Appreciate all input! Thanks for reading my post!

None

Temple may be a good option for virtually free but you will have to get really lucky and get an ADA/PD or small firm gig making anywhere from ~40-55k. A 60k legal job would be a great outcome from there. A few at the very top of the class will probably get big law but not really worth mentioning. The rest won't get legal jobs at all.

cr bro

Can you explain what that is, please? Not familiar with TLS lingo.

[miles2go-b4Isleep]

(assuming this isn't troll)

so let me get this straight

u went to penn for ug
and now u want to go to temple

isn't that like ordering the lobster tartine at jean georges
and then finishing ur meal with 7-11 doritos loaded cheese fritters

I'm just assessing my options based on the realities of my current situation. I don't believe I am entitled to anything special just because I graduated from UPenn. It was a BA degree, albeit summa cum laude. But law school is an entirely different ball game and these are the stats I'm going in with. I suppose that if I told you that before this I was also a Fulbright, you'd give me another one of your colorful analogies. Part of the reason for posing this question is to field opinions so that I can decide whether it is worth it to me to go to Temple law given the (very likely) outcome that I don't get into a T14. What makes Temple worth it is a 60k min salary upon graduation. This is my evaluation, but to each his/her own. I am hoping someone can actually shed some insight into the question I posed above. Failing that, if anyone wants to venture other career suggestions for me, I am all ears. As always, thanks for reading this.

[03152016]

(assuming this isn't troll)

so let me get this straight

u went to penn for ug
and now u want to go to temple

isn't that like ordering the lobster tartine at jean georges
and then finishing ur meal with 7-11 doritos loaded cheese fritters

I'm just assessing my options based on the realities of my current situation. I don't believe I am entitled to anything special just because I graduated from UPenn. It was a BA degree, albeit summa cum laude. But law school is an entirely different ball game and these are the stats I'm going in with. I suppose that if I told you that before this I was also a Fulbright, you'd give me another one of your colorful analogies. Part of the reason for posing this question is to field opinions so that I can decide whether it is worth it to me to go to Temple law given the (very likely) outcome that I don't get into a T14. What makes Temple worth it is a 60k min salary upon graduation. This is my evaluation, but to each his/her own. I am hoping someone can actually shed some insight into the question I posed above. Failing that, if anyone wants to venture other career suggestions for me, I am all ears. As always, thanks for reading this.

i'm now pretty sure this is troll
honestly v hard 2 tell
but i am def leaning towards troll rite now

[miles2go-b4Isleep]

(assuming this isn't troll)

so let me get this straight

u went to penn for ug
and now u want to go to temple

isn't that like ordering the lobster tartine at jean georges
and then finishing ur meal with 7-11 doritos loaded cheese fritters

I'm just assessing my options based on the realities of my current situation. I don't believe I am entitled to anything special just because I graduated from UPenn. It was a BA degree, albeit summa cum laude. But law school is an entirely different ball game and these are the stats I'm going in with. I suppose that if I told you that before this I was also a Fulbright, you'd give me another one of your colorful analogies. Part of the reason for posing this question is to field opinions so that I can decide whether it is worth it to me to go to Temple law given the (very likely) outcome that I don't get into a T14. What makes Temple worth it is a 60k min salary upon graduation. This is my evaluation, but to each his/her own. I am hoping someone can actually shed some insight into the question I posed above. Failing that, if anyone wants to venture other career suggestions for me, I am all ears. As always, thanks for reading this.

i'm now pretty sure this is troll
honestly v hard 2 tell
but i am def leaning towards troll rite now

I honestly have no interest in wasting mine or anyone else's time. I joined this forum to post a question hoping for some honest, yet measured, opinions. Please, don't derail this conversation.

[Clearly]

I'm not going to invest much time in this given the high troll likelyhood. DONT DO WHAT YOURE THINKING.

[miles2go-b4Isleep]

I'm not going to invest much time in this given the high troll likelyhood. DONT DO WHAT YOURE THINKING.

I wish I were a troll so that we could both laugh at the situation, since people seem to think it's funny? Not sure why this level of frivolousness in your replies. I've seen others post similar questions before on this forum and they were helped more seriously by members of this forum. That's what encouraged me to create an account just so I could post my question, but I'm now regretting that decision. Thanks for your time, anyway.

[Clearly]

I'm not going to invest much time in this given the high troll likelyhood. DONT DO WHAT YOURE THINKING.

I wish I were a troll so that we could both laugh at the situation, since people seem to think it's funny? Not sure why this level of frivolousness in your replies. I've seen others post similar questions before on this forum and they were helped more seriously by members of this forum. That's what encouraged me to create an account just so I could post my question, but I'm now regretting that decision. Thanks for your time, anyway.

Because you have a great GPA from an amazing school, and are looking for help justifying going to a festering ttt, while also being well-informed enough to post the very data we would use to talk you out of it...

[pancakes3]

I'm pretty sure "retake" is a stock reply for pretty much all "Choosing a law school" threads. People are telling you to retake for a shot at Penn instead of going to Temple. 10 more points the difference between a coinflip's chance at employment and guaranteed employment. Your 3.88 is a godsend. You can't retake GPA's but you CAN retake LSATs.

You were asking what the "hot" field in law is? The "hot" field is getting a job.

What really put it in perspective for me was when someone said that Medschool employment is something like 98%. It really didn't matter where you went. You get that MD and you're a doctor, doing doctor things, and getting doctor paid. That's not what law school is. You get a JD, and even get barred and you don't get "matched" to a teaching firm. You can be perfectly average and do NOTHING WRONG and end up unemployed at Temple.

[03152016]

I'm not going to invest much time in this given the high troll likelyhood. DONT DO WHAT YOURE THINKING.

I wish I were a troll so that we could both laugh at the situation, since people seem to think it's funny? Not sure why this level of frivolousness in your replies. I've seen others post similar questions before on this forum and they were helped more seriously by members of this forum. That's what encouraged me to create an account just so I could post my question, but I'm now regretting that decision. Thanks for your time, anyway.

Because you have a great GPA from an amazing school, and are looking for help justifying going to a festering ttt, while also being well-informed enough to post the very data we would use to talk you out of it...

[FluffMonster]

Joined this forum just so I can ask this question. I'm especially interested in input from law students or people on "the other side". My question is basically, what are your feelings on entering a Tier 2 LAW school (i.e.: Temple Law) in this economy if I want to make a minimum of 60k after law school? Is it worth the investment? Basically, I'm looking for opinions, anecdotes, or observations from similarly people in similarly positioned schools.

***Now I've gathered up some research here so that people don't bother looking.***

TEMPLE UNIVERSITY Beasley Law School
----------------------------------------------
- TEMPLE is ranked 61st.
- Median LSAT and GPA are 160 and 3.4
- 2013 matriculating students were 295.
- Located in Philadelphia.
- Other law competition in the area include UPenn, Penn State, Villanova, St. Johns, Drexel, and perhaps Rutgers.
- LST gives TEMPLE a 59% employment score.
- Of 2013 class, 75% were employed full time, but only 59% in jobs requiring bar passage.
- Underemployment was 23%. Unemployment was 12.5%.
- 11% of last year's class made it to BigLaw.
- Temple NALP data and LST figures indicates that salary for 25%, 50%, and 75% to be 48k, 60k, and 80k, respectively. *This data is based on only 50% of student body who *actually* responded.
- LST further states that at least 25% of graduates are making 60k or more.
- The school's website says that the figures for those of the 2013 class working in *law firms* (37% of graduates), salary figures are 54k, 70k, and 126k for 25%, 50%, and 75%, respectively.
- Tuition for me would be about 80k total (roughtly 20k/yr, but I guess this is adjusted for accrued interest, and a few other expenses such as insurance, books, etc. using the CoA calculator on the site.) I do have my own home, so no rent / room & board fees. This number is rounded up and assumes a worst case scenario but, Temple does 53% of its students a 7.5k tuition discount.

These are the school's numbers. My numbers are 158 LSAT and 3.88 GPA from UPenn. Unfortunately LSAT score cannot be raised by much more. I am giving it another shot and based on scores I am getting under many practice tests in timed conditions, I am not doing much better. Before you ask, yes I have studied very hard and for very long. I am one of those people that just doesn't do well on it for various reasons. At 42% acceptance rate, I figure I have a decent chance of getting into Temple. Whether I should is another question. Why Temple, specifically? Life reasons: the fact that I have family, friends, a girlfriend, my own house here, and that I want to continue to work in the area after graduation.

But numbers are one thing, and I don't especially trust these numbers given that only 49.5% of the class responded. It makes me wonder why it was that the rest of the class didn't want to respond... Law schools, whose very survival depends on rankings, have also been known to cook their books. This is why I'm addressing this crowd hoping maybe for some relevant comments / personal anecdotes. I assume that at least some of you are already in law school and have graduated and can comment on the job market currently and can more accurately tell me how things are on the other side?

Given the above statistics, given the current job market, and given my necessity to obtain a job that pays at least 60k after law school (at least 25% of graduating law class, according to LST), is it worth going to Temple law and graduating in 2019? Is the job market ever bouncing back?

Also, on a related note, what are some "hot" legal fields right now?

Appreciate all input! Thanks for reading my post!

Xxx

Edited for reasons.

[rickgrimes69]

Also, on a related note, what are some "hot" legal fields right now?

None that OP is likely to get

FTFY. There are several legal fields that are booming atm - M&A, Tech / Copyright IP, and oil & gas work (in TX / SD) come to mind. OP just won't have any reasonable chance at getting any of them.

[yost]

You went to UPenn and did extremely well there. I think what everyone is trying to say is that you are capable of a higher LSAT score. With that GPA, if you hit 170, you'll be looking at big money from a T14. Even a 168 probably gives you some decent options. If you really want to go to law school, don't settle on Temple.

[timbs4339]

OP: I know the job market still sucks, but surely with a great GPA from Penn you should be able to find some job that will lead to opportunities to make $60K in three years without having to go to Temple? I'm not sure why you think law school is the only path to a 60K job (for a lot of students it isn't even that).

With that GPA and 5 more points you'd be looking at a full ride to great schools. 10 more points and you'd be in contention at T13 schools. Don't waste the GPA.

EDIT: Honestly, that degree from an Ivy gives you so many options to actually get a real job out of college. A place like Temple is for people who graduated from state schools who are choosing between cashier at Best Buy and at least trying to have a shot at a "respectable" career. You could work in another field for a few years and give the LSAT an extra couple tries.

[jchiles]

I don't want to pile on here but I know several people who had number similar to yours that either were rejected from Temple outright, or who only got accepted in June or so after being on the wait list for the entire application cycle. They are also pretty stingy with aid, which I don't really fault them for because their instate tuition is fairly affordable but I wouldn't bank on receiving any, even if you get in. If you can bring that lsat up even 6 or 7 points you should able to get a full ride at any school (including Temple) in the area other than Penn.

That said, having a 60k job at graduation would be a very good outcome at Temple or one of its peer schools, I am at one of those schools and know maybe 6 people who had any job lined up before they graduated.

[donewithannarbor]

I'm not going to invest much time in this given the high troll likelyhood. DONT DO WHAT YOURE THINKING.

I wish I were a troll so that we could both laugh at the situation, since people seem to think it's funny? Not sure why this level of frivolousness in your replies. I've seen others post similar questions before on this forum and they were helped more seriously by members of this forum. That's what encouraged me to create an account just so I could post my question, but I'm now regretting that decision. Thanks for your time, anyway.

This is a cynical, cynical place. So much so that many of the people who live here and dominate conversations can't even fathom the words and ideas expressed by many newer posters. It has become kind of a joke.

I'd say Temple is fine for you at 60k or less total cost. You should be able to elicit a scholarship at that level with your GPA. Seems like your expectations are realistic, as opposed to big law tunnel-visioned. I agree with the comments that with a few points increase in LSAT you could get close to a full ride at Temple, and with a few more, you could get into Penn and open up really phenomenal array of options. That breadth of the array of options, moderate for Temple versus almost endless for Penn, is the main difference between T14 and the regional top 100s you also list.

[miles2go-b4Isleep]

I don't want to pile on here but I know several people who had number similar to yours that either were rejected from Temple outright, or who only got accepted in June or so after being on the wait list for the entire application cycle. They are also pretty stingy with aid, which I don't really fault them for because their instate tuition is fairly affordable but I wouldn't bank on receiving any, even if you get in. If you can bring that lsat up even 6 or 7 points you should able to get a full ride at any school (including Temple) in the area other than Penn.

That said, having a 60k job at graduation would be a very good outcome at Temple or one of its peer schools, I am at one of those schools and know maybe 6 people who had any job lined up before they graduated.

Thanks for your answer! This is the kind of observation / personal anecdote that I was looking for when I first asked this question.

[miles2go-b4Isleep]

OP: I know the job market still sucks, but surely with a great GPA from Penn you should be able to find some job that will lead to opportunities to make $60K in three years without having to go to Temple? I'm not sure why you think law school is the only path to a 60K job (for a lot of students it isn't even that).

With that GPA and 5 more points you'd be looking at a full ride to great schools. 10 more points and you'd be in contention at T13 schools. Don't waste the GPA.

EDIT: Honestly, that degree from an Ivy gives you so many options to actually get a real job out of college. A place like Temple is for people who graduated from state schools who are choosing between cashier at Best Buy and at least trying to have a shot at a "respectable" career. You could work in another field for a few years and give the LSAT an extra couple tries.

By all means please name some careers offering these opportunities, keeping in mind that my qualification is a Bachelor of Arts (read: no technical, mathematical, engineering, in other words "hard" skills).

[WheatThins]

By all means please name some careers offering these opportunities, keeping in mind that my qualification is a Bachelor of Arts (read: no technical, mathematical, engineering, in other words "hard" skills).

You should be able to get a job at a hedge fund or an investment bank in NY, if that interests you.

[chuckbass]

Temple isn't an awful option, if you want Philly and are paying little for the degree, but expecting a job AS A LAWYER is shaky at best, let alone hoping for a 60k/yr salary. The biggest problem that I have is that you're basically throwing away your Penn degree. You went to one of the best schools in the country and graduated at the top of your class, so you shouldn't be settling for Temple and a 50/50 shot at a getting a job with your degree.

[timbs4339]

OP: I know the job market still sucks, but surely with a great GPA from Penn you should be able to find some job that will lead to opportunities to make $60K in three years without having to go to Temple? I'm not sure why you think law school is the only path to a 60K job (for a lot of students it isn't even that).

With that GPA and 5 more points you'd be looking at a full ride to great schools. 10 more points and you'd be in contention at T13 schools. Don't waste the GPA.

EDIT: Honestly, that degree from an Ivy gives you so many options to actually get a real job out of college. A place like Temple is for people who graduated from state schools who are choosing between cashier at Best Buy and at least trying to have a shot at a "respectable" career. You could work in another field for a few years and give the LSAT an extra couple tries.

By all means please name some careers offering these opportunities, keeping in mind that my qualification is a Bachelor of Arts (read: no technical, mathematical, engineering, in other words "hard" skills).

Ask your classmates, go to the career counseling office, or look at the linkedin profiles of last year's graduates. I did not go to a prestigious UG, the only employer at my college's career fair was the local county public works department. But my friends who went to Ivies worked in policy, finance, consulting, media, building a resume before they got to law school.

If you want to do something legally related and make 60K with overtime, visit the websites of the "Vault 100" law firms and apply to be a paralegal. They jump at kids from Ivy BA programs. Do that for three years and you'll likely be making more than the median salary for a Penn grad (the real median salary, not the cherry-picked stats published by the school).