Rutgers Newark vs Seton Hall Forum

[SteelPenguin]

Idk man, it's clearly a good outcome on the cost side, but a student at median is going to be sweating
Although i may be biased, i have a friend who is a 2012 rutgers grad still not employed and still living at home

I'd rather be a rut grad with no job and no debt than a seton hall grad with no job and debt.

Why?

Just saying overall, I wouldn't go to either, but that if I had to choose between the two rather than be smart take the time off and retake, at least I'd have no debt coming from one option.

Wow, I misread that as "I'd rather be a rut grad with no job and no debt than a seton hall grad with no job and no debt." My bad.

[eriedoctrine]

Rutgers.

[should-i-do-it]

I'd rather be a YHS grad with no job and debt than a T2 graduate with a 160k starting salary job and zero debt.
Dat prestige!

Your chances of landing a 160k job from a T2 are close to zero, your chances of not having a job from YHS are also close to zero. It's not about the prestige, its about getting a job. If T2 grads were getting jobs at the same rate as T14 schools no one would care. That's how it is in medicine. Law is different.

[donewithannarbor]

Rutgers, no doubt. Congrats on your scholarship.

My advice, once you start in August, forget that you earned the scholarship. I mean, it's great that you're going for free. Stupendous really. But though you've been deemed to be one of their top-flight incoming students, you've still got to work as hard as anyone elses. 1L is, for better and worse, so defining. Take it from a recent Rutgers alum. A couple of A-grades + a journal, preferably law review, send you into multiple OCI interviews with big law. If you are middling and get all Bs and no journal, you could still turn out to be a wonderful attorney, but you're going to start with an NJ state clerkship and then prove yourself in midlaw. Obviously, I am only talking about traditional routes-- be open to any opportunity that interests you-- just trust me when I say that, at either of these schools, great opportunities are available but you're going to need to work hard.

With a full ride, you will have a outside-stress level that is way lower than everyone else's. Go get it!

[daleearnhardt123]

Rutgers, no doubt. Congrats on your scholarship.

My advice, once you start in August, forget that you earned the scholarship. I mean, it's great that you're going for free. Stupendous really. But though you've been deemed to be one of their top-flight incoming students, you've still got to work as hard as anyone elses. 1L is, for better and worse, so defining. Take it from a recent Rutgers alum. A couple of A-grades + a journal, preferably law review, send you into multiple OCI interviews with big law. If you are middling and get all Bs and no journal, you could still turn out to be a wonderful attorney, but you're going to start with an NJ state clerkship and then prove yourself in midlaw. Obviously, I am only talking about traditional routes-- be open to any opportunity that interests you-- just trust me when I say that, at either of these schools, great opportunities are available but you're going to need to work hard.

With a full ride, you will have a outside-stress level that is way lower than everyone else's. Go get it!

Don't listen to this bullshit OP. While I'd love to channel areyouinsane right now, it's too tall of a task to emulate that guy. Instead, I'll just shoot straight and bypass the more flowery prose about toilet-law and traffic court clerkships. Oh, by the way, did you know that your most likely career outcome from RU or SH is a traffic court clerkships, followed by toilet law?

First off, you should not be considering SH under any circumstances whatsoever--even if they were PAYING YOU to be there. The fact that you'd graduate with debt just makes your decision all the more clear. Your only job options from this joke of a school will be resume-destroying, soul-sucking jobs that barely pay you enough to keep you off of food stamps and render advancement in your legal career a lottery-like proposition.

As for Rutgers, this hellhole should only be on your radar if you can get that 50% stipulation dropped. Otherwise, if you lose the scholarship, you need to be prepared to drop out immediately. Hell, if you haven't secured a job by the time you enter 2L, you should probably drop out immediately. 1 lost year at law school is easier to explain to non-legal employers than is 3 years, PLUS the BAR exam, PLUS the time you waste doing doc-review before you realize you can't survive another month pushing and clicking through shitpaper.

This BS that the quoted user posted about "proving yourself in midlaw" is a huge crock of shit that is basically the modern day analogue of what boomers would tell prospective law students half a decade ago. There's barely such a thing as "midlaw" and there's CERTAINLY no such thing as "midlaw" for a green RU graduate with no book of business and no legal experience. You won't be "proving yourself at midlaw", you'll be shitclicking through reams of shitpaper at a doc review slave shop until you decide to drop out of the industry altogether.

[LafayetteJeff]

Definitely not Seton under the circumstances. Rutgers : why not. It's free. You either do well 1L, keep the stip, and are on track for employment, or you don't make the 3.0, lose the scholarship , and could (and maybe should) drop out with nothing lost.

Your situation is not bad dude. Lots of hate on TLS.

[03152016]

Definitely not Seton under the circumstances. Rutgers : why not. It's free. You either do well 1L, keep the stip, and are on track for employment, or you don't make the 3.0, lose the scholarship , and could (and maybe should) drop out with nothing lost.

Your situation is not bad dude. Lots of hate on TLS.

why not get a freebie from the hooker under the williamsburg bridge
you only have a 50% shot of getting crabs
and if u do u just need to buy some special shampoo and a comb

[LafayetteJeff]

why not get a freebie from the hooker under the williamsburg bridge
you only have a 50% shot of getting crabs
and if u do u just need to buy some special shampoo and a comb

Whoa , cool parable dude!

I stand by my advice. I'd only back down from it if you come back to us with an under-sticker T14.

[donewithannarbor]

Don't listen to this bullshit OP. While I'd love to channel areyouinsane right now, it's too tall of a task to emulate that guy. Instead, I'll just shoot straight and bypass the more flowery prose about toilet-law and traffic court clerkships. Oh, by the way, did you know that your most likely career outcome from RU or SH is a traffic court clerkships, followed by toilet law?

First off, you should not be considering SH under any circumstances whatsoever--even if they were PAYING YOU to be there. The fact that you'd graduate with debt just makes your decision all the more clear. Your only job options from this joke of a school will be resume-destroying, soul-sucking jobs that barely pay you enough to keep you off of food stamps and render advancement in your legal career a lottery-like proposition.

As for Rutgers, this hellhole should only be on your radar if you can get that 50% stipulation dropped. Otherwise, if you lose the scholarship, you need to be prepared to drop out immediately. Hell, if you haven't secured a job by the time you enter 2L, you should probably drop out immediately. 1 lost year at law school is easier to explain to non-legal employers than is 3 years, PLUS the BAR exam, PLUS the time you waste doing doc-review before you realize you can't survive another month pushing and clicking through shitpaper.

This BS that the quoted user posted about "proving yourself in midlaw" is a huge crock of shit that is basically the modern day analogue of what boomers would tell prospective law students half a decade ago. There's barely such a thing as "midlaw" and there's CERTAINLY no such thing as "midlaw" for a green RU graduate with no book of business and no legal experience. You won't be "proving yourself at midlaw", you'll be shitclicking through reams of shitpaper at a doc review slave shop until you decide to drop out of the industry altogether.

What is the basis of your knowledge?

I have a handle on how my class and other classes broke down, so I am sharing that with OP. We'd all agree that no one should go into RU or SH blind to how the classes breakdown- there are winners, there are losers, and there are those in between who will succeed or fizzle down the road for reasons unconnected to their degree. It's not like T14, where you take three steps ahead just by getting the degree, which, of course, you can get simply by rocking undergrad and the lsat. Many posters on TLS will just never understand why anyone would go to a school where you can't stumble right into big law.

OP can try to negotiate the stip away, but OP would also need to think long and hard about continuing at any law school with below a 3.0 at the end of 1L (unless he makes L. Rev). If OP makes the stip and is bound for a top half finish, here are OP's outcomes: top 15 percent get offers comparable to T14 grads (a win by traditional TLS standards), another 10-15 percent go to NJ firms with good pay and opportunity but obviously a totally different experience than NY big law (a win, but not by TLS standards), then the next 20-30 percent go to state court clerkships, respectable but not well paying smaller firms, or government (when I allude to proving yourself later on, this is what I mean. Anyone who's head is not in their ass knows that you can go places from here, just not to the TLS eden of BigLaw). If you're below middle of the road, i.e. in the bottom 40, things are bleak at all law schools- doc review or shit law or non law. This is not breaking news. I sure as shit would not hire a 3.0 non-journal alum of just about any school. Again, if you don't meet the stip and miss l. rev., don't continue. But OP, I hope law is for you. Whatever you did you get a full scholarship is at least a decent indicia of future success.

I can predict the main retort I will get-- that the RU/Seton 25-50 percentile usually start with state court clerkships, and the odds of ever getting big law pay (at least NY big law) thereafter are next to nothing. Absolutely TRUE. But what are your priorities? If you want to be assured a 165k starting salary upon getting just decent grades, then you need to go T14 (of course, you're overhead will be about 200k higher).

Rutgers for free or T14.