Tiny Debt vs Top Ranking Forum

[jmlopiano]

My main concern is choosing between the highest ranked school and the school(s) that will offer me the most in terms of minimal debt. I'm not kidding myself by thinking that law school has a high prospect of bringing me success. I'm fine with casting a large net and at this point I'm considering what going to an utter crap school (if I can get a financially painless ride + very high class ranking) versus a decent school (tier 1) with about 150k worth of debt ahead of me, implicates. Should I go for a tier 3 in hopes of getting into the top 10% of my class alongside having painless debt if offered scholarship, or should I focus on a tier 1. I realize I may sound like a newbie in the matter. My reasons for going into law are that I genuinely love to debate and that I have a sort of fetish for the power of words. I feel that law is where language meets practical leverage over the world around me. I also have an internship at Oxford University Press in Manhattan where they have a law department that I'm wondering if I could capitalize on with a law degree.

Schools I'm looking at: Anything in the tristate/NY area.
Where I'm from: Long Island, NY
Career Goals: I'd like to make a modest living doing contract work for whatever wets my interests.
GPA (cum): 3.22 / GPA (major): 3.78 <---Not sure if the latter matters at all
LSATs: The first test I'm taking is this monday (6/9/14) and my median LSAT practice test score is a 157. I'm hoping to bump that up to at least a 160+ by improving in the LG section with focus and patience.

[UnicornHunter]

My main concern is choosing between the highest ranked school and the school(s) that will offer me the most in terms of minimal debt. I'm not kidding myself by thinking that law school has a high prospect of bringing me success. I'm fine with casting a large net and at this point I'm considering what going to an utter crap school (if I can get a financially painless ride + very high class ranking) versus a decent school (tier 1) with about 150k worth of debt ahead of me, implicates. Should I go for a tier 3 in hopes of getting into the top 10% of my class alongside having painless debt if offered scholarship, or should I focus on a tier 1. I realize I may sound like a newbie in the matter. My reasons for going into law are that I genuinely love to debate and that I have a sort of fetish for the power of words. I feel that law is where language meets practical leverage over the world around me. I also have an internship at Oxford University Press in Manhattan where they have a law department that I'm wondering if I could capitalize on with a law degree.

Schools I'm looking at: Anything in the tristate/NY area.
Where I'm from: Long Island, NY
Career Goals: I'd like to make a modest living doing contract work for whatever wets my interests.
GPA (cum): 3.22 / GPA (major): 3.78 <---Not sure if the latter matters at all
LSATs: The first test I'm taking is this monday (6/9/14) and my median LSAT practice test score is a 157. I'm hoping to bump that up to at least a 160+ by improving in the LG section with focus and patience.

Take the LSAT, and then retake, and then see what sort of options you're looking at. As for the rest of your post:

Career Goals: I'd like to make a modest living doing contract work for whatever wets my interests.

This probably has more to do with your fetish than I want to think about, but you're not going to be in a position to pick and choose clients. You'll either go to a firm, where you'll do what they tell you, or you'll hang a shingle, in which case you won't be able to turn away clients. eta: obviously, there are more possible outcomes from getting a JD then this. But casually doing contract work of interest isn't one them.

GPA (cum): 3.22 / GPA (major): 3.78 <---Not sure if the latter matters at all

It doesn't

My reasons for going into law are that I genuinely love to debate and that I have a sort of fetish for the power of words.

don't write about this in your personal statement. HTH

I feel that law is where language meets practical leverage over the world around me.

As a young associate, you will have almost no practical leverage over the world around you. This, however, will still be way more practical leverage than if you go to a law school with terrible employment stats and end up unemployed or doing doc review.

I also have an internship at Oxford University Press in Manhattan where they have a law department that I'm wondering if I could capitalize on with a law degree.

Almost certainly not. They're not going to need lawyers to be editors, and the authors of the legal books are all going to be academics.

[jmlopiano]

Thank you for responding! So would you say having a better chance at employment with 100,000+k in debt would be a better way to go than going to a crappy school with possibly little to no debt, hypothetically speaking? I'm wondering how bad it would be to have a cheap JD from a tier 3 school, without stressing about paying off a ton of debt. That way I could possibly hold the JD after passig a bar and work on networking while paying off hypothetically little debt. Or is that just stupid?

[twenty]

150k is definitely on the low side for an estimate, seeing as your cost of living expenses alone will be 70k in NYC. But even if you were able to somehow go to a T1 for 150k, how on earth do you expect to be able to pay back 150k with interest accumulating at 8%+ a year on "a modest living doing contract work for whatever wets my interests"?

[UnicornHunter]

Thank you for responding! So would you say having a better chance at employment with 100,000+k in debt would be a better way to go than going to a crappy school with possibly little to no debt, hypothetically speaking? I'm wondering how bad it would be to have a cheap JD from a tier 3 school, without stressing about paying off a ton of debt. That way I could possibly hold the JD after passig a bar and work on networking while paying off hypothetically little debt. Or is that just stupid?

Even with no debt, you're going to want a job when you get out of law school. If you were dead set on becoming a PD, for example, going to a local school for free, gunning hard for PD while you're there, and then working as a volunteer for a year after is pretty credited, but it takes a lot of conviction to go down that path. If you just want to do contract stuff, there's not going to be a ton of options for you coming out of a low tier school. You might be able to network yourself into a job at some tiny firm after you pass the bar, but that's definitely not guaranteed. Check out (but do not post in) the Vale of Tears thread. As an anecdote, some of my friends recently graduated from Suffolk and are now struggling to find paralegal jobs. There are not enough lawyer jobs to go around.

If your opportunity cost is so low and your desire to be a lawyer is so high that you're willing to spend 3 years of your life for a 50/50 shot at a job that pays 50k and treats you like shit, then by all means go to a TTT for free. But if I were you, I would not do law school unless I smoked the LSAT.

[CTT]

Troll? When you say T1, I'm assuming we're not talking about Yale, Columbia, NYU, or Cornell. If you end up with a 157, you'll be looking at UConn, Albany, Brooklyn, CUNY, Hofstra, etc. You would do better to burn your money, at least that way it would keep you warm. Outside of the T14, $150k of debt is completely insane. It sounds like you don't really like what you're doing now and you think that a law degree is a way to shift careers. I wouldn't bother taking the LSAT if I were you. It sounds like you want to be a poet, not a lawyer. Even if you go to a crap law school for free, it's still going to be a waste of three years.

[McAvoy]

Use the resources in the LSAT forum and come back when you have a score that, at the very least, is at/upwards of 165. You're not going to be offered anything close to a reasonable option until you seriously improve your LSAT.

You're not looking at free TTTs with a 158 and a 3.1, you're looking at sticker TTTs.

[guano]

what you want you can't get. In the tri-state area, low debt vs top ranking means Cardozo on a full scholarship vs Columbia/NYU, not Touro with $10k vs Hofstra at sticker.

Retake or go home

[Attax]

Use the resources in the LSAT forum and come back when you have a score that, at the very least, is at/upwards of 165. You're not going to be offered anything close to a reasonable option until you seriously improve your LSAT.

You're not looking at free TTTs with a 158 and a 3.1, you're looking at sticker TTTs.

IDK some of the unsolicited emails I got told me I'd qualify for at least $3,000 in scholarships if I applied NOW! So that isn't sticker at least.

OP, kill the LSAT, get 170+ and go to a T14 or a strong regional (i.e. school in your general area that you want to work) for free.

[03152016]

It's a terrible way to frame your decision. Cost/debt, employment numbers, location, goals, and to a lesser degree fit, are all valid considerations, but a fairly arbitrary national ranking of mainly regional schools is not.

Also, for some students there is a reasonable middle ground between 'tiny debt' and 'top school'. There do exist strong regionals outside of "Tier 1" that can be worth moderate (think - a year's salary after graduation) debt for students wanting to work in the area.

[timbs4339]

What do you mean when you say "contract work?" Like, reviewing business contracts, or working as a contractor paid by the hour? Because the first is so vague as to be meaningless, and the second is a rapidly dwindling type of law practice that involves little more than reviewing documents for massive litigations, during which you develop essentially no valuable or substantive legal experience. Hardly using the power of words to do stuff, wouldn't you say?

[ManoftheHour]

My reasons for going into law are that I genuinely love to debate and that I have a sort of fetish for the power of words. I feel that law is where language meets practical leverage over the world around me.

Troll? When you say T1, I'm assuming we're not talking about Yale, Columbia, NYU, or Cornell. If you end up with a 157, you'll be looking at UConn, Albany, Brooklyn, CUNY, Hofstra, etc. You would do better to burn your money, at least that way it would keep you warm. Outside of the T14, $150k of debt is completely insane. It sounds like you don't really like what you're doing now and you think that a law degree is a way to shift careers. I wouldn't bother taking the LSAT if I were you. It sounds like you want to be a poet, not a lawyer. Even if you go to a crap law school for free, it's still going to be a waste of three years.

[John Everyman]

Pretty much everyone gets scared off the first time OP. Just think, a year or two from now, you'll have a sweet LSAT, a full ride to Cardozo or BU, or Cornell with a small scholly, and you'll offer someone else the same advice you got and hopefully they'll also be smart enough to take it.

It hurts, but, eat the deposit, go home, and start planning out your study schedule for the Sept. LSAT.

[paayter]

dude..you shouldnt even be thinking about huge scollys if your median is 157...my medians were around 165 and tanked it to below that number. I know that you have the possibility of going above your practicing score, but more likely than not itll be lower. make sure u get yourself to practicing to an average 165 plus for full rides at tier 3s, and 2/3 to full scolly at tier 2, and half scolly to tier 1s except top 14.