Chicago $$ vs Cornell $$$ Forum

[Poet&IKnowIt]

Looking for a bit of advice on choosing between these two schools.

Chicago COA: 173k
Cornell COA: 75k

-I will be financing my education almost entirely through loans
-I have strong ties to the bay area, and my preferred outcome would be SF Biglaw transactional work. After most of my loans are paid off I'd like to work in a government regulatory agency like the SEC, CFTC or Treasury department. Going in-house is also a possibility. I would rather avoid NY biglaw, but will take the opportunity if it's my only option
-I've taken the LSAT twice, not a URM

[WheninLaw]

Looking for a bit of advice on choosing between these two schools.

Chicago COA: 173k
Cornell COA: 75k

-I will be financing my education almost entirely through loans
-I have strong ties to the bay area, and my preferred outcome would be SF Biglaw transactional work. After most of my loans are paid off I'd like to work in a government regulatory agency like the SEC, CFTC or Treasury department. Going in-house is also a possibility. I would rather avoid NY biglaw, but will take the opportunity if it's my only option
-I've taken the LSAT twice, not a URM

Chicago student here. I would take Cornell in a heartbeat, though it may depend on how bad you want to be in SF. Good ties + at/above median at Chicago will get you SF, not sure if the same as true at Cornell.

[papercut]

Congrats on the $$$. I'd take Cornell.

[jingosaur]

Really depends on how okay you would be with NYC Biglaw vs. other regions. If you really want to avoid it, then go to Chicago. Chicago will give you a significantly better chance of going west, but none of us know you well enough to determine if that's worth the extra $$.

[Crowing]

Looking for a bit of advice on choosing between these two schools.

Chicago COA: 173k
Cornell COA: 75k

-I will be financing my education almost entirely through loans
-I have strong ties to the bay area, and my preferred outcome would be SF Biglaw transactional work. After most of my loans are paid off I'd like to work in a government regulatory agency like the SEC, CFTC or Treasury department. Going in-house is also a possibility. I would rather avoid NY biglaw, but will take the opportunity if it's my only option
-I've taken the LSAT twice, not a URM

Chicago student here. I would take Cornell in a heartbeat, though it may depend on how bad you want to be in SF. Good ties + at/above median at Chicago will get you SF, not sure if the same as true at Cornell.

Am also inclined to vote for Cornell

100k is too much of a difference imo

[03152016]

Kind of surprised at the poll results given how debt-averse TLS is. Sounds like biglaw is a means to an end for OP and he wants to get out when he's paid off the debt; that's more likely to happen in a reasonable time frame when the bill is 75k instead of 173k.

[2014]

Really depends on how okay you would be with NYC Biglaw vs. other regions. If you really want to avoid it, then go to Chicago. Chicago will give you a significantly better chance of going west, but none of us know you well enough to determine if that's worth the extra $$.

This is basically it. Taking Cornell over U.Chi dramatically reduces your SF odds (though they are still non zero) and increases the chance you end up in NYC or struck out. Only you know at what number that sacrifice is worth it for you.

Also how is this an actual decision, we haven't let anyone in off the WL yet as far as I know so are you deposited at chicago already?

[jbagelboy]

this one is tough. if i was 100% committed to markets outside NYC I'd bite the bullet and head to UChicago. For any big law, Cornell.

[BigZuck]

Real question- How are we quantifying this "dramatic reduction" of chances at CA big law by attending Cornell as opposed to Chicago?

[rayiner]

Real question- How are we quantifying this "dramatic reduction" of chances at CA big law by attending Cornell as opposed to Chicago?

I'm very skeptical of this "dramatic reduction." If thr location was D.C., I'd say that Chicago will give then a tangible edge because D.C. is very prestige conscious. I don't know much about the CA market, but I haven't heard that its particularly prestige conscious. With strong SF ties, I don't know if Chicago will buy $100k worth of edge in CA.

FWIW, I know a bunch of people who went to SF/LA from NU the last few years. They were above median but below top 10%. Will Chicago get you CA firms from median and below?

[09042014]

Real question- How are we quantifying this "dramatic reduction" of chances at CA big law by attending Cornell as opposed to Chicago?

location was D.C., I'd say that Chicago will give then a tangible edge because D.C. is very prestige conscious. I don't know much about the CA market, but I haven't heard that its particularly prestige conscious. With strong SF ties, I don't know if Chicago will buy $100k worth of edge in CA.

In my experience DC is more grade conscious than prestige conscious. I'm not really sure CCN is a thing here.

[rayiner]

Real question- How are we quantifying this "dramatic reduction" of chances at CA big law by attending Cornell as opposed to Chicago?

location was D.C., I'd say that Chicago will give then a tangible edge because D.C. is very prestige conscious. I don't know much about the CA market, but I haven't heard that its particularly prestige conscious. With strong SF ties, I don't know if Chicago will buy $100k worth of edge in CA.

In my experience DC is more grade conscious than prestige conscious. I'm not really sure CCN is a thing here.

CCN isn't, but I was surprised by the number of Chicago peeps. Anecdotal, to be fair.

[09042014]

Real question- How are we quantifying this "dramatic reduction" of chances at CA big law by attending Cornell as opposed to Chicago?

location was D.C., I'd say that Chicago will give then a tangible edge because D.C. is very prestige conscious. I don't know much about the CA market, but I haven't heard that its particularly prestige conscious. With strong SF ties, I don't know if Chicago will buy $100k worth of edge in CA.

In my experience DC is more grade conscious than prestige conscious. I'm not really sure CCN is a thing here.

CCN isn't, but I was surprised by the number of Chicago peeps. Anecdotal, to be fair.

It could be firm preferences or it could be U of C peeps aim to DC more than NYC school people would.

[NYSprague]

Why would someone pay $100,000 more than they need to go to law school?

You can't guarantee San Francisco from either school because you don't know your grades or class standing. How many biglaw SAs and associates are hired every year by
SA firms? How large is that market. You may be able to get biglaw somewhere from either school. Choosing to pay more doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't understand. So many of the posters here are motivated by money because they see the biglaw salary but that motivation and love of money disappears when it comes to going in debt.

$100,000 is a huge amount of money. San Francisco is supposed to be at least as expensive as New York, why would you put yourself in a huge financial hole?

[2014]

Real question- How are we quantifying this "dramatic reduction" of chances at CA big law by attending Cornell as opposed to Chicago?

I'm very skeptical of this "dramatic reduction." If thr location was D.C., I'd say that Chicago will give then a tangible edge because D.C. is very prestige conscious. I don't know much about the CA market, but I haven't heard that its particularly prestige conscious. With strong SF ties, I don't know if Chicago will buy $100k worth of edge in CA.

FWIW, I know a bunch of people who went to SF/LA from NU the last few years. They were above median but below top 10%. Will Chicago get you CA firms from median and below?

I know of no rising 3Ls who targeted cali and failed. My sample is imperfect but solid.

I'll backtrack on my "dramatically" verbiage to avoid pissing anyone off, I had a Cornell person come after me on some other thread when I made a similar claim and should have learned my lesson.

The odds are certainly better, Idk how to reasonably quantify that either as a percentage or a dollar figure though.

[rayiner]

Real question- How are we quantifying this "dramatic reduction" of chances at CA big law by attending Cornell as opposed to Chicago?

I'm very skeptical of this "dramatic reduction." If thr location was D.C., I'd say that Chicago will give then a tangible edge because D.C. is very prestige conscious. I don't know much about the CA market, but I haven't heard that its particularly prestige conscious. With strong SF ties, I don't know if Chicago will buy $100k worth of edge in CA.

FWIW, I know a bunch of people who went to SF/LA from NU the last few years. They were above median but below top 10%. Will Chicago get you CA firms from median and below?

I know of no rising 3Ls who targeted cali and failed. My sample is imperfect but solid.

I'll backtrack on my "dramatically" verbiage to avoid pissing anyone off, I had a Cornell person come after me on some other thread when I made a similar claim and should have learned my lesson.

The odds are certainly better, Idk how to reasonably quantify that either as a percentage or a dollar figure though.

It's not a matter of "pissing people off" but rather just not talking out your ass and basing your conclusions on something more concrete than the assumption that Chicago must have better placement based on its rank. That's certainly true in some markets, but its not true everywhere.

Chicago's overall edge versus Cornell has been 5-6% over the last two years for firms of 100+ and federal clerkships. I'd imagine CA placement follows the same general trend. If anything the edge is less in CA, because that 5-6% includes a big edge at NYC firms, which we know from callback data.

If you're contemplating dropping an extra $100k, one thing to realize is that Chicago isn't HYS. During C/O 2011, the worst year of the recession, H/S were down 5-6 points relative to 2013, and Y wasn't down at all. Chicago was down 18 points. Cornell had an abysmal year too, down over 20 point. You're not buying yourself above the fray for $100k.

[instride91]

Quick question for OP:

When do you have to decide? Hasn't Cornell's 2nd deposit deadline already passed? I'm currently on reserve and I was just wondering when the decision deadline for Cornell is? (When you can no longer have multiple deposits)

[ymmv]

Easily Cornell. I have yet to see any data sufficient to demonstrate that Chicago's west coast placement advantage (if it exists) is worth $100,000 more. Sucks to have to live in Ithaca for three years, but it doesn't suck as much as $173,000 of debt.

[Lavitz]

I'll backtrack on my "dramatically" verbiage to avoid pissing anyone off, I had a Cornell person come after me on some other thread when I made a similar claim and should have learned my lesson.

The odds are certainly better, Idk how to reasonably quantify that either as a percentage or a dollar figure though.

I think that was me, lol. And that was because you said:

If you go to Cornell you can all but write off Cali

Which is just wrong.

You can get CA from Cornell with median + ties, but I've heard you'd want to be top 1/3rd. And I have no idea about SF specifically. So maybe Chicago is better for SF, but I'd need more data. We get the most recent OCI gpa data next week.

We do have a club for people who want to go back to CA. And if you want, OP, I can PM you the e-mail address of our "San Francisco Rep."

[Poet&IKnowIt]

Quick question for OP:

When do you have to decide? Hasn't Cornell's 2nd deposit deadline already passed? I'm currently on reserve and I was just wondering when the decision deadline for Cornell is? (When you can no longer have multiple deposits)

I have until Tuesday to decide. My interview was cancelled due to a scheduling conflict with Cornell's spring break, and I suppose my application was misplaced afterwards. I received a decision after the deposit deadline.

I appreciate everyone's advice. I'm having a tough time making a decision so the input is very helpful.

[WheninLaw]

For some reason I didn't see that you wanted to avoid NY. While SF can be difficult, LA is extremely easy to get from Chicago. If you're fine with that, and don't want NY, I don't think it would be nuts to pick Chicago.

edit: Like you, I wanted SF biglaw. I bid exclusively CA at OCI. If you have specific questions, I'm happy to answer them.

[NYSprague]

For some reason I didn't see that you wanted to avoid NY. While SF can be difficult, LA is extremely easy to get from Chicago. If you're fine with that, and don't want NY, I don't think it would be nuts to pick Chicago.

edit: Like you, I wanted SF biglaw. I bid exclusively CA at OCI. If you have specific questions, I'm happy to answer them.

OP said he would accept new york if needed. I don't think Chicago is worth $100,000 more than Cornell and I haven't seen anyone with data to support that.

[WheninLaw]

For some reason I didn't see that you wanted to avoid NY. While SF can be difficult, LA is extremely easy to get from Chicago. If you're fine with that, and don't want NY, I don't think it would be nuts to pick Chicago.

edit: Like you, I wanted SF biglaw. I bid exclusively CA at OCI. If you have specific questions, I'm happy to answer them.

OP said he would accept new york if needed. I don't think Chicago is worth $100,000 more than Cornell and I haven't seen anyone with data to support that.

I would have taken NY to not end up unemployed, but would have fucking hated my life. Not having to be in NY is probably worth $50K to me.

Data is going to be difficult here. Very few people from Cornell end up in CA. I have no idea if it's because they don't want to be there, cannot get it, don't try, all, none, whatever. CA is pretty much a lock from Chicago. Eventually, OP will need to put a price on that.

[furrrman]

OP, are you SF biglaw -> any biglaw or SF biglaw -> any CA biglaw -> any biglaw?

There was a poster taking questions at one point (can't remember the thread) who worked in SF biglaw, and basically said you needed HYS or Berk to make it realistic. This would lead me to assume that the chance at SF biglaw from either school isn't great, and that you should probably take the money and go to Cornell. However, if you really want to stay in CA and will take SF or LA, then I think the extra 100k at Chicago would be worth it. The past two years Chi has placed 2x the % of grads in CA than Cornell. Posters here also seem to verify that CA is well within reach for Chi students. Its hard for me to believe its just as easy for Cornell students, although I have no way to verify this. I'd like to see some Cornell folks chime in with anecdotal stuff about people targeting CA from there.

[BigZuck]

OP, are you SF biglaw -> any biglaw or SF biglaw -> any CA biglaw -> any biglaw?

There was a poster taking questions at one point (can't remember the thread) who worked in SF biglaw, and basically said you needed HYS or Berk to make it realistic. This would lead me to assume that the chance at SF biglaw from either school isn't great, and that you should probably take the money and go to Cornell. However, if you really want to stay in CA and will take SF or LA, then I think the extra 100k at Chicago would be worth it. The past two years Chi has placed 2x the % of grads in CA than Cornell. Posters here also seem to verify that CA is well within reach for Chi students. Its hard for me to believe its just as easy for Cornell students, although I have no way to verify this. I'd like to see some Cornell folks chime in with anecdotal stuff about people targeting CA from there.

Lavitz' anecdote should be as good as any IMO