Any Difference Between T2, TTT and TTTT Schools? Forum

[UnicornHunter]

Once again let's look at Iowa. Do you really think any of their grads can't waltz into anytown USA and land small law over median University of Mississippi grads or the like? Even bottom 10 percent of T30 will starve only if they are literally retarded circus apes. I have to laugh when eeyore type losers give up on finding gainful legal employment. Those are the types that only went to law school in the first place because the heroine on a Lifetime movie was an "empowered" woman lawyer.

Dude, this is just really one of the stupidest posts I've ever seen, and I spend way too much time on this site. There is rank idiocy being spouted in threads here all over the place tonight, but this post wins them all.

Maybe this is revenge of the clueless 0Ls week. They must have sensed a weakness in the force.

Not so fast.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0#p7726520

[TTT_allstar]

Once again let's look at Iowa. Do you really think any of their grads can't waltz into anytown USA and land small law over median University of Mississippi grads or the like? Even bottom 10 percent of T30 will starve only if they are literally retarded circus apes.

Yes, I do. That small law shop in "anytown" USA probably has one associate, and she's the niece of one of the three attorneys. People on TLS aren't "Biglaw or bust" because they want them cash monies. They're Biglaw or bust because Biglaw is the only thing in the legal world with a predictable and consistent hiring pipeline. It's not like there's tons and tons of small and midlaw shops in the US just looking for the next great attorney to come in with his T14/T1/TT/Twhatever JD.

How did you go from "rankings don't matter" to Iowa>>>Mississippi??? I call troll.

As an aside, when referring to a person of unknown sex, it is proper english to call them "he" regardless of what our 1L Torts books did...

Anyway, if you read the beginning of the thread, I said rankings outside of the T-30 to 40 don't matter.

And yes, if you pound pavement, there are a shitload of small firms looking for competent (and often incompetent) new hires.

[fundamentallybroken]

http://www.law.uiowa.edu/documents/fina ... cation.pdf

Attendance costs from last year, in case you're busy looking...

Point conceded... 135k to 150k. Either way... can be paid off with small law wages. especially with IBR. right? soooo my whole point is that law school can be worth it even if no big law.

IBR= pay 70-100 bucks per month and then have out of control federal gov't forgive welfa... er student loans after 20 years.

Yes, it can be paid off. Yes, it can be comfortably paid off. Of course, even with IBR, you still have $150k in debt (and on your credit) showing up for 20 years. Even if it doesn't keep you down financially, it will weigh on you mentally.

I'm actually an advocate of going to law school outside the T14 if you have the right WE and reasons to go - I'm not advocate of straddling yourself with debt just because you got in somewhere.

[A. Nony Mouse]

As an aside, when referring to a person of unknown sex, it is proper english to call them "he" regardless of what our 1L Torts books did...

Did you really just go all old-fashioned-ly sexist grammar-nazi on a internet forum post?

And yes, if you pound pavement, there are a shitload of small firms looking for competent (and often incompetent) new hires.

And there are even more law school grads looking for those jobs. But of course, it's convenient to blame it on individual initiative because then you can maintain the illusion you won't be one of the people who gets shut out.

[TTT_allstar]

Of course a person shouldn't just go to LS to go to LS. But people on TLS systematically advise people not to go to LS unless it is T14 or a full ride to a regional.

[Mal Reynolds]

Of course a person shouldn't just go to LS to go to LS. But people on TLS systematically advise people not to go to LS unless it is T14 or a full ride to a regional.

I would say this is pretty much great advice. I would revise the regional debt to something lower than $75k overall COA.

[NYC-WVU]

Why bother comparing regional schools that are in entirely dissimilar regions? Missoula is in, relatively, the middle of nowhere, while Cincy is a decent-sized city close to other decent-sized cities. What is the purpose of comparing these schools? If someone is considering these as options, they need to think about more than simply "employment statistics" or rankings, e.g., they should think about how they envision the rest of their lives unfolding.
[The closest city from Missoula with more than 100k people, at 3 hours, is Spokane, with 200k and a "statistical area" of 600k. Compare that to Cincinnati, which has a population of 300k and a statistical area of 2.2M, and is within 2 hours from Dayton, Lexington, Louisville, Columbus and Indianapolis. Starting a career out of Missoula will be totally different from starting one out of Cincinnati.]

[ScottRiqui]

http://www.law.uiowa.edu/documents/fina ... cation.pdf

Attendance costs from last year, in case you're busy looking...

Point conceded... 135k to 150k. Either way... can be paid off with small law wages. especially with IBR. right? soooo my whole point is that law school can be worth it even if no big law.

IBR= pay 70-100 bucks per month and then have out of control federal gov't forgive welfa... er student loans after 20 years.

It's not going to be 150k after three years' worth of accrued interest. But fine - let's use 150k. If you're single, living in Iowa, and making $45,000, your IBR payments start off at $344 and go up to $1337/month over time. You'll end up paying $222k over the repayment time span, and THEN you get to pay the tax bomb on $160k that will be forgiven at the end.

[TTT_allstar]

As an aside, when referring to a person of unknown sex, it is proper english to call them "he" regardless of what our 1L Torts books did...

Did you really just go all old-fashioned-ly sexist grammar-nazi on a internet forum post?

And yes, if you pound pavement, there are a shitload of small firms looking for competent (and often incompetent) new hires.

And there are even more law school grads looking for those jobs. But of course, it's convenient to blame it on individual initiative because then you can maintain the illusion you won't be one of the people who gets shut out.

It is also "old-fashioned" not to end sentences with prepositions. It is also correct not to end sentences with prepositions. cf. persons of unknown sex referred to as "he".

If a person can't land small law, he literally has the personality of a dead moth. It is highly inter-personal relationship dependent and has little to do with law school performance.

[TTT_allstar]

Point conceded... 135k to 150k. Either way... can be paid off with small law wages. especially with IBR. right? soooo my whole point is that law school can be worth it even if no big law.

IBR= pay 70-100 bucks per month and then have out of control federal gov't forgive welfa... er student loans after 20 years.[/quote]

It's not going to be 150k after three years' worth of accrued interest. But fine - let's use 150k. If you're single, living in Iowa, and making $45,000, your IBR payments start off at $344 and go up to $1337/month over time. You'll end up paying $222k over the repayment time span, and THEN you get to pay the tax bomb on $160k that will be forgiven at the end.[/quote]


How do you figure this ($344 starting payment)?^^^^^^

[UnicornHunter]

Once again let's look at Iowa. Do you really think any of their grads can't waltz into anytown USA and land small law over median University of Mississippi grads or the like? Even bottom 10 percent of T30 will starve only if they are literally retarded circus apes.

Yes, I do. That small law shop in "anytown" USA probably has one associate, and she's the niece of one of the three attorneys. People on TLS aren't "Biglaw or bust" because they want them cash monies. They're Biglaw or bust because Biglaw is the only thing in the legal world with a predictable and consistent hiring pipeline. It's not like there's tons and tons of small and midlaw shops in the US just looking for the next great attorney to come in with his T14/T1/TT/Twhatever JD.

How did you go from "rankings don't matter" to Iowa>>>Mississippi??? I call troll.

As an aside, when referring to a person of unknown sex, it is proper english to call them "he" regardless of what our 1L Torts books did...

Anyway, if you read the beginning of the thread, I said rankings outside of the T-30 to 40 don't matter.

And yes, if you pound pavement, there are a shitload of small firms looking for competent (and often incompetent) new hires.

Hey dickwad, that was my hypo, I can assign whatever gender I want to the one associate in that firm. It wasn't unknown at all.

Also, the rankings are way too variable outside the T14 to think they really matter at all. Is Washington and Lee a school worth going to at sticker because it's ranked 26 (2013) or is it a POS to avoid because it's in a competitive market and is ranked 43 (2014.) The answer, of course, is neither. It's a school worth going to for some people, but only if their costs are reasonable for the employment opportunities offered by the school.

eta: I am aware it is not proper English to call people "dickwad" regardless of whether or not they are, in fact, being a dickwad

[ScottRiqui]

As an aside, when referring to a person of unknown sex, it is proper english to call them "he" regardless of what our 1L Torts books did...

Did you really just go all old-fashioned-ly sexist grammar-nazi on a internet forum post?

And yes, if you pound pavement, there are a shitload of small firms looking for competent (and often incompetent) new hires.

And there are even more law school grads looking for those jobs. But of course, it's convenient to blame it on individual initiative because then you can maintain the illusion you won't be one of the people who gets shut out.

It is also "old-fashioned" not to end sentences with prepositions. It is also correct not to end sentences with prepositions. cf. persons of unknown sex referred to as "he".

If a person can't land small law, he literally has the personality of a dead moth. It is highly inter-personal relationship dependent and has little to do with law school performance.

(ignores the fact that there are more graduates than available jobs in any given year)

Also, "don't end a sentence with a preposition" isn't an actual rule. Further, I would argue that since "out" is part of the idiomatic phrase "shut out", it's not really even a preposition for the purposes of the "rule".

[A. Nony Mouse]

How do you figure this ($344 starting payment)?^^^^^^

The government provides a handy payment calculator online.

[TTT_allstar]

Hey dickwad, that was my hypo, I can assign whatever gender I want to the one associate in that firm. It wasn't unknown at all.

You can, but you're grammatically incorrect to do so. Plus, since more lawyers are men, it isn't even probable that the associate would be a "she." Which tells me that you only chose to call your associate "she" because you are angry. It's like calling a nurse a "he." Only in law books...

[NYC-WVU]

Hey dickwad, that was my hypo, I can assign whatever gender I want to the one associate in that firm. It wasn't unknown at all.

You can, but you're grammatically incorrect to do so. Plus, since more lawyers are men, it isn't even probable that the associate would be a "she." Which tells me that you only chose to call your associate "she" because you are angry. It's like calling a nurse a "he." Only in law books...

But according to your rule it would be grammatically incorrect to call the nurse of unknown gender a she, so what are we supposed to do?

[ScottRiqui]

How do you figure this ($344 starting payment)?^^^^^^

I messed up and used the 15% IBR calculator instead of the 10% and forgot to adjust for AGI. So the starting payments are closer to $175. But that just makes the tax bomb even bigger at the end, since your payments probably won't even cover interest.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Hey dickwad, that was my hypo, I can assign whatever gender I want to the one associate in that firm. It wasn't unknown at all.

You can, but you're grammatically incorrect to do so. Plus, since more lawyers are men, it isn't even probable that the associate would be a "she." Which tells me that you only chose to call your associate "she" because you are angry. It's like calling a nurse a "he." Only in law books...

1) His hypo wasn't generic, it was postulating that an actual woman had been hired.
2) Using "she" as a generic is not grammatically incorrect.
3) It doesn't matter how many lawyers are men.
4) Using "she" to refer to lawyers does not make someone angry (nor is it out of line to call a nurse "he").
5) This has nothing to do with choosing a law school and I'm sorry that your torts casebook offended you so deeply by defaulting to the feminine gender and thus reminding you that women exist, but it's not an appropriate discussion for this forum.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Point conceded... 135k to 150k. Either way... can be paid off with small law wages. especially with IBR. right? soooo my whole point is that law school can be worth it even if no big law.

IBR= pay 70-100 bucks per month and then have out of control federal gov't forgive welfa... er student loans after 20 years.

It's not going to be 150k after three years' worth of accrued interest. But fine - let's use 150k. If you're single, living in Iowa, and making $45,000, your IBR payments start off at $344 and go up to $1337/month over time. You'll end up paying $222k over the repayment time span, and THEN you get to pay the tax bomb on $160k that will be forgiven at the end.

How do you figure this ($344 starting payment)?^^^^^^[/quote]

I messed up and used the 15% IBR calculator instead of the 10% and forgot to adjust for AGI. So the starting payments are closer to $175. But that just makes the tax bomb even bigger at the end, since your payments probably won't even cover interest.[/quote]
Technically, the IBR calculator was the correct one, since that's what the OP mentioned. (Leaving aside the AGI bit, of course.)

[TTT_allstar]

Hey dickwad, that was my hypo, I can assign whatever gender I want to the one associate in that firm. It wasn't unknown at all.

You can, but you're grammatically incorrect to do so. Plus, since more lawyers are men, it isn't even probable that the associate would be a "she." Which tells me that you only chose to call your associate "she" because you are angry. It's like calling a nurse a "he." Only in law books...

But according to your rule it would be grammatically incorrect to call the nurse of unknown gender a she, so what are we supposed to do?

Technically, a nurse of unknown sex would be a "he" because "he" is a genus and a species in English, whereas "she" is solely a species. (non-biological sense) When you call someone of unknown sex a "he" you are not stating that they are male. You are using "he" as a genus for all of mankind. Also, see e.g., mankind. When you call someone of unknown sex a "she" you are really stating that her sex is female. That is how proper English works. I can't help it if y'all have gotten feminist lobotomies.

When I gave the nurse example, I was referring to law school hypos.

By the same logic "history" should be changed to "herstory" right...?

[Ded Precedent]

But if you're paying under IBR you're not getting the 20 year forgiveness anyway right? Only new loans that qualify for PAYE qualify for the 20 year forgiveness or am I confused.

[UnicornHunter]

Hey dickwad, that was my hypo, I can assign whatever gender I want to the one associate in that firm. It wasn't unknown at all.

You can, but you're grammatically incorrect to do so. Plus, since more lawyers are men, it isn't even probable that the associate would be a "she." Which tells me that you only chose to call your associate "she" because you are angry. It's like calling a nurse a "he." Only in law books...

I can't believe I'm going to engage you on this, but w/e:

a) My hypo, my rules.
b) The default for a person of an unknown gender may be he, but my person was a niece. That's a noun, not a pronoun. The pronoun that goes with the word "niece" is generally "she." Traditionally, that is.
c) Lawyers may be predominantly men, but are small firm associates? In 2013, the m/f ratio in law schools was roughly 53/47.* Since we know that significantly more men Biglaw than women, is it not reasonable to assume that it's pretty damn close to a 50/50 split in small law? Maybe even more female associates?




* source: http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/ ... eckdam.pdf

[TTT_allstar]

1) Why don't we just live in a society where there aren't any rules?
2) Why don't we just live in a society where the rules of grammar are subject to the capricious whims of unattractive women that did not get enough dates?
3) From now on, I shall change the word "the" to the word "and" and vice versa.
4)My law professor did it so now I will mindlessly regurgitate his every word.
5) Oh wait, that would suck.
6) "Am I the only one that gives a shit about the rules?"
7) Pick up a copy of the First Edition MLA handbook.

[A. Nony Mouse]

1) Why don't we just live in a society where there aren't any rules?
2) Why don't we just live in a society where the rules of grammar are subject to the capricious whims of unattractive women that did not get enough dates?
3) From now on, I shall change the word "the" to the word "and" and vice versa.
4)My law professor did it so now I will mindlessly regurgitate his every word.
5) Oh wait, that would suck.
6) "Am I the only one that gives a shit about the rules?"
7) Pick up a copy of the First Edition MLA handbook.

The first edition of the MLA Handbook was published in 1977. They're on the 7th edition by now. And seriously, if you don't drop this I am going to ban you. This is not the part of TLS to have this discussion and frankly you're being kind of offensive.

[ScottRiqui]

1) Why don't we just live in a society where there aren't any rules?
2) Why don't we just live in a society where the rules of grammar are subject to the capricious whims of unattractive women that did not get enough dates?
3) From now on, I shall change the word "the" to the word "and" and vice versa.
4)My law professor did it so now I will mindlessly regurgitate his every word.
5) Oh wait, that would suck.
6) "Am I the only one that gives a shit about the rules?"
7) Pick up a copy of the First Edition MLA handbook.

The first edition of the MLA Handbook was published in 1977. They're on the 7th edition by now. And seriously, if you don't drop this I am going to ban you. This is not the part of TLS to have this discussion and frankly you're being kind of offensive.

No kidding - even the MLA moved away from gender-specific pronouns twenty years ago. And "he" is a gender-specific pronoun, notwithstanding the genus/species bullshit upthread.

[TTT_allstar]

Hey dickwad, that was my hypo, I can assign whatever gender I want to the one associate in that firm. It wasn't unknown at all.

You can, but you're grammatically incorrect to do so. Plus, since more lawyers are men, it isn't even probable that the associate would be a "she." Which tells me that you only chose to call your associate "she" because you are angry. It's like calling a nurse a "he." Only in law books...

I can't believe I'm going to engage you on this, but w/e:

a) My hypo, my rules.
b) The default for a person of an unknown gender may be he, but my person was a niece. That's a noun, not a pronoun. The pronoun that goes with the word "niece" is generally "she." Traditionally, that is.
c) Lawyers may be predominantly men, but are small firm associates? In 2013, the m/f ratio in law schools was roughly 53/47.* Since we know that significantly more men Biglaw than women, is it not reasonable to assume that it's pretty damn close to a 50/50 split in small law? Maybe even more female associates?

b) is your best and only defense. However, it's still weird to pick a girl because 1) you are a man and 2) you are speaking of a profession that is dominated by men which 3) leads me to believe you have some weird agenda which 4) distracts me from the original point of this thread.




* source: http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/ ... eckdam.pdf