PSA: forget about specialties or professors--take the money Forum

[NYSprague]

Well if your dad is paying and all his friends thinks Harvard is the way to go, why are you even arguing. You should have just said that in the first place.

I think the move to argue against Harvard and then take someone's spot off the wait list is one of the funniest things I've read about here.

I'm sure your classmates will be excited about that!

I was kidding. I don't think anyone changed his/her mind after looking at my nonsense posts though. Funny if anyone did. Who would choose S over H max grant?

Also, I didn't take anyone's spot off the waitlist. (I really would take Columbia JD Butler/MBA over H sticker.) I wish everyone remaining on the WL the best of luck!

So your remarks about your dad weren't true? Why mention that?
Whatever.

[Blindmelon]

I've spoken to numerous of Harvard Law grads and all of them speak glowingly of their decision to attend. Everyone has different goals and a different financial situation, and there are great arguments in either direction. Money is the most important thing, but it's not the only thing, especially when the outcomes at these schools are so great. Some people love Yale's academia training program or fell in love with Palo Alto or have one professor at Harvard they really want to do research with.

I understand. Money is important for me too. Hence, giving up the Columbia Butler when thinking of Columbia gets me excited too was not easy. I've had long discussions with my parents. You know what my father said? He told me that all the lawyers he talked to said that I should go to H without looking back. I thought maybe that's because they were never in that kind of situation. But really, what can you do when the ones that are paying for you want you to attend a particular school that you actually would love to attend? I may or may not regret my decision, likely depending on how well I do in Cambridge. Looking back though, I don't think I really had a choice.

First World Problems.

Did you really name drop Cambridge?

If you want to enter biglaw, get used to these kinds of people. No one important cares where you went to school once you get here, but a lot of unimportant people like to remind you where they went to school.

Also, you will be shocked at the amount of people at bigfirms whose parents paid for LS - its the circle of wealth.

[Pragmatic Gun]

I've spoken to numerous of Harvard Law grads and all of them speak glowingly of their decision to attend. Everyone has different goals and a different financial situation, and there are great arguments in either direction. Money is the most important thing, but it's not the only thing, especially when the outcomes at these schools are so great. Some people love Yale's academia training program or fell in love with Palo Alto or have one professor at Harvard they really want to do research with.

I understand. Money is important for me too. Hence, giving up the Columbia Butler when thinking of Columbia gets me excited too was not easy. I've had long discussions with my parents. You know what my father said? He told me that all the lawyers he talked to said that I should go to H without looking back. I thought maybe that's because they were never in that kind of situation. But really, what can you do when the ones that are paying for you want you to attend a particular school that you actually would love to attend? I may or may not regret my decision, likely depending on how well I do in Cambridge. Looking back though, I don't think I really had a choice.

First World Problems.

Did you really name drop Cambridge?

If you want to enter biglaw, get used to these kinds of people. No one important cares where you went to school once you get here, but a lot of unimportant people like to remind you where they went to school.

Also, you will be shocked at the amount of people at bigfirms whose parents paid for LS - its the circle of wealth.

Dat income inequality.

So the takeaway from here is that law school trains one to be a lawyer, which means the most important thing is whether the law school in question can give the employment outcome the candidate desires. All other considerations are secondary UNLESS you're choosing between well-ranked schools with big money.

Honestly, the secondary factors are what undergraduate hopefuls look for in colleges. I feel like they're approaching the wrong way. They think law school will give them direction when it's for people who are set on the law.

[manu6926]

...

[jbagelboy]

lol @ at the backtracking posthumous awkwardness awareness online (that certainly will convert to awkwardness at school irl). at least Harvard has a big program.

(also lol if emu and manu start dating / have a very awkward one night stand)

[anyriotgirl]

lol @ at the backtracking posthumous awkwardness awareness online (that certainly will convert to awkwardness at school irl). at least Harvard has a big program.

(also lol if emu and manu start dating / have a very awkward one night stand)

DF and the mrs. DF should set that up pronto

[Pragmatic Gun]

Should the two lovebirds meet at Harvard or at Cambridge?

[Power_of_Facing]

Should the two lovebirds meet at Harvard or at Cambridge?

Harvard on Cambridge, it sounds European that way, which continent we all know is far more preftigious than these United States.

[Pragmatic Gun]

Should the two lovebirds meet at Harvard or at Cambridge?

Harvard on Cambridge, it sounds European that way, which continent we all know is far more preftigious than these United States.

Ah. How about Harvard-upon-Cambridge? Dashes add even more preftige.

[jbagelboy]

(just fyi, it would actually be harvard-upon, or harvard-on-the-charles, since the charles river does run through cambridge)

[Pragmatic Gun]

(just fyi, it would actually be harvard-upon, or harvard-on-the-charles, since the charles river does run through cambridge)

Ah, true, there is no body of water called the Cambridge. How preftigious is Charles, though? The first one did get his head chopped off. We want only the best for our well-bred future lawyers.

[Power_of_Facing]

"Harvard sur Charles" -- that way it reads French but sounds English. Best of both worlds.

[Pragmatic Gun]

"Harvard sur Charles" -- that way it reads French but sounds English. Best of both worlds.

Hey Cambridge, does this newfound nomenclature suit your taste?

[emu42]

lol @ at the backtracking posthumous awkwardness awareness online (that certainly will convert to awkwardness at school irl)

lolwut, i could not possibly care less about tls posters' opinions of me to bother backtracking on anything i've said (which isn't even bad)

[Pragmatic Gun]

lol @ at the backtracking posthumous awkwardness awareness online (that certainly will convert to awkwardness at school irl)

lolwut, i could not possibly care less about tls posters' opinions of me to bother backtracking on anything i've said (which isn't even bad)

It's okay, dude, we all make mistakes.

[manu6926]

...

[Pragmatic Gun]

lol @ at the backtracking posthumous awkwardness awareness online (that certainly will convert to awkwardness at school irl). at least Harvard has a big program.

lol at the number of TLS posts you made while in law school.

I know you are, but what am I???

[jdmonkey]

Well if your dad is paying and all his friends thinks Harvard is the way to go, why are you even arguing. You should have just said that in the first place.

I think the move to argue against Harvard and then take someone's spot off the wait list is one of the funniest things I've read about here.

I'm sure your classmates will be excited about that!

+1 If your dad is willing to pay for H then just go, especially since he seems enthusiastic about you attending. Nobody is going to argue that H isn't a good investment. The only counter is that you may receive less of an inheritance, but that money will be almost be negligible if you discount it (35-40 years?) to calculate the net present value of $x today versus $x 40 years from now.

[ph14]

"Academia is impossible, might as well not even try" is a horribly deleterious attitude to have. It's true that an extremely small percentage of even Yale grads make it, but there is a significant degree of self selection. And if all goes wrong, they're still getting an awesome clerkship and biglaw job. If you truly want to be an academic, or get that prestigious government job, and you have the opportunity of attending a school that can get you there, I think you're less likely to regret taking the money than turning it down (once again, this applies to a small subset of people for a small subset of schools).

I know an aspiring academic who has a PhD, a prestigious fellowship, VAP appointments at T10's, a COA clerkship, and is still looking for a tenure-track job. It's a really rough road to hoe, and starry-eyed HYS admits don't have a good perspective on how rough.

There were 106 tenure-track hires last year, and that number has been trending down since the mid-2000's: http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblaw ... -2013.html. And while tenure has been pretty freely given at law schools to date, I wouldn't count on that continuing to be the case as the majority of law schools start facing an enrollment crunch over the next 10 years.

If you want a practical shot at academia, get an advanced degree then go to Yale, where 7-8% of each class has gotten a tenure-track position over the last few years. Because even at Harvard, you're looking at 2-4% of each class getting a tenure-track job (versus 2-3% from U of Chicago or 1% at the lower T-14). If you don't even have an advanced degree and are telling me you're pinning your hopes on academia, well I think I'm rightfully skeptical.

This source has it at just 64 tenure track junior faculty hires for the past hiring season.

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... 13-14.html

Sarah Lawsky (UC Irvine) has recorded 73 junior hires this year, though as she notes in the comments, there appear to be just 64 tenure-track academic hires (as distinct from tenure-track clinical and/or legal writing positions--those markets generally operate rather differently, which is why it's useful to disagreggate them).

[Ricky-Bobby]

This source has it at just 64 tenure track junior faculty hires for the past hiring season.

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... 13-14.html

Sarah Lawsky (UC Irvine) has recorded 73 junior hires this year, though as she notes in the comments, there appear to be just 64 tenure-track academic hires (as distinct from tenure-track clinical and/or legal writing positions--those markets generally operate rather differently, which is why it's useful to disagreggate them).

[youtube]zMRrNY0pxfM[/youtube]

[manu6926]

...

[ph14]

This source has it at just 64 tenure track junior faculty hires for the past hiring season.

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... 13-14.html

Sarah Lawsky (UC Irvine) has recorded 73 junior hires this year, though as she notes in the comments, there appear to be just 64 tenure-track academic hires (as distinct from tenure-track clinical and/or legal writing positions--those markets generally operate rather differently, which is why it's useful to disagreggate them).

[youtube]zMRrNY0pxfM[/youtube]

A useful contribution to the on-topic forums.

[Ricky-Bobby]

A useful contribution to the on-topic forums.

And quoting it helped in a big way.

I'm sorry, I won't shit up this amazing "argue with manu and emu for the 15th time" thread anymore.

[star fox]

Shit I mean it's fairly obvious this boards general advice is geared towards people taking on loans to fund law school. If your parents are able and willing to fork over a quarter of a million dollars and aren't like "you're turning down a full ride from a top 5 law school in the country.. are you fucking kidding me?" Then well shit, best of luck to you, future supreme court justice.

[Hipster but Athletic]

Well if your dad is paying and all his friends thinks Harvard is the way to go, why are you even arguing. You should have just said that in the first place.

I think the move to argue against Harvard and then take someone's spot off the wait list is one of the funniest things I've read about here.

I'm sure your classmates will be excited about that!

+1 If your dad is willing to pay for H then just go, especially since he seems enthusiastic about you attending. Nobody is going to argue that H isn't a good investment. The only counter is that you may receive less of an inheritance, but that money will be almost be negligible if you discount it (35-40 years?) to calculate the net present value of $x today versus $x 40 years from now.

Do you have any idea what the concept of NPV is? Here's a hint: It's based on opportunity costs. Now go back and figure out, if you can, why you should never try to give people financial advice ever again.