Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

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Fordham or Cardozo

Fordham (20K)
39
87%
Cardozo (36K)
6
13%
 
Total votes: 45

jbalsamo

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby jbalsamo » Thu May 08, 2014 6:30 pm

twenty wrote:
jbalsamo wrote:
twenty wrote:Your numbers seem abnormal. If you can live with your parents and have them pay for your food/room and get an extra 5k/year from Fordham, I might do that.


I'm a MA URM, which probably would account for the unpredictable offer. I may live at home for a year, but not 1L. I live about 1 hour and a half from Lincoln Center. Not impossible, but not something I would want to do my first year.


I'm sorry, I meant your COA numbers seem abnormally low. Incidentally, though, if you're an MA URM, you should seriously consider retaking the LSAT for good money options at a T14. A lowish GPA won't necessarily keep you out of scholarship territory as a URM.


Yeah, I am considering taking the June LSAT, would be a third attempt, but I am very happy with Fordham. I would probably only take it to solicit additional merit aid. Even as a URM with a improved LSAT, the T-14 is a gamble.

As for COA, I'm coming from undergrad and I plan on continuing to live like a broke college kid. I'm also only going to be in the city for 10 months, I'd live at home during the summer and sublet my apartment. I'm also planning to live with roommates (probably like 2 people) somewhere where I can find rent around 1k per person (3k overall). Which is difficult, but not impossible in Manhattan or Brooklyn (a bit easier). I'm also working at Columbia over the summer so I will spend my time hunting for an affordable place.

To Break it down, I plan on spending roughly 11K-13k on Rent and utilities, and about 6K on books, transportation, food, etc...

I'll also probably use furniture from home for the apartment. Overall I should be able to live on 17-18K even in Manhattan. I honestly have no idea where these schools come up with 27K COL.

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chipotle123

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby chipotle123 » Fri May 09, 2014 11:33 am

Yeah, I am considering taking the June LSAT, would be a third attempt, but I am very happy with Fordham. I would probably only take it to solicit additional merit aid. Even as a URM with a improved LSAT, the T-14 is a gamble.

As for COA, I'm coming from undergrad and I plan on continuing to live like a broke college kid. I'm also only going to be in the city for 10 months, I'd live at home during the summer and sublet my apartment. I'm also planning to live with roommates (probably like 2 people) somewhere where I can find rent around 1k per person (3k overall). Which is difficult, but not impossible in Manhattan or Brooklyn (a bit easier). I'm also working at Columbia over the summer so I will spend my time hunting for an affordable place.

To Break it down, I plan on spending roughly 11K-13k on Rent and utilities, and about 6K on books, transportation, food, etc...

I'll also probably use furniture from home for the apartment. Overall I should be able to live on 17-18K even in Manhattan. I honestly have no idea where these schools come up with 27K COL.[/quote]


I am very close with someone in the Manhattan and Brooklyn rental business (broker who opened up his own shop) and I can tell you that at the moment it is very hard to find an apartment in Manhattan or Brooklyn for under 1200. You also know (being from LI) that prices in the city are high so COL is prob closer to 27k than 18k. Not a bad position to be in but obv debt burden is a big issue here.

dsamuels

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby dsamuels » Mon May 12, 2014 4:18 pm

Fordham would be your best option in my opinion.

jbalsamo

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby jbalsamo » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:29 am

Hey guys, just an update; I found a nice place on Amsterdam and 81st for 1100 a month. With the Broker fee and utilities it works out to roughly 1300 per month out-the-door. So about 13K per year assuming a summer sublet. I also expect to be able to live on roughly 5k for the year. So 18K is looking pretty realistic, and I'm a 20 minute walk from campus.

If you look, there are some reasonable places out there.

03152016

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby 03152016 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:32 pm

oh no wait r u sure u want to do this man
given your goals and that absurd cost this sounds like a rly bad idea

03152016

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby 03152016 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:34 pm

i was trying to look up some info 2 help u
but fordham law's website is down

not a good sign

03152016

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby 03152016 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:02 pm

i'm gonna give u some realistic numbers
i expect u've already calcified in ur position
but i'll post neways in the hopes u change ur mind
and to help others with 20k offers from fordham in the future

1) your tuition will not stay the same
tuition cost right now is 51880 + 652 in fees
fordham's tuition cost inflation is 3.18% per year
that means 52,532 1L, 54,203 2L, and 55,927 3L

2) u will probably not become an ra
according to fordham's 'ram realm' publication:
"The Resident Assistant position may be the most competitive job to get on campus. It involves an intense application process that includes a series of interviews — that includes conversations with other potential candidates, at least two Resident Director and current RA’s — three letters of recommendation and a meet-and-greet with the Office of Residential Life."
BLS estimates rent increases of 3.2% yearly
so figuring ten months rent, 11,000 1L, 11,352 2L, 11,715 3L
i will assume u paid a 1,100 broker fee, which we will add to the 1L numbers
and utilities (internet, power, gas) we will call 100 even a month (that's being generous), so add on 1,000 per year
total figures are 13,100 1L, 11,352 2L, 11,715 3L

3) u will not live off of 5k yearly
think about some of these: groceries (250 monthly), books/supplements/office supplies&equipment (1.6k yearly, being generous), wardrobe professional and otherwise (400 yearly, being generous), going out/entertainment (200 monthly, being SO SO generous considering ny), haircuts (25 monthly, go to supercuts), sundries/odds&ends/occasional treats like starbucks (250 yearly minimum, excluding any needed medications), co-pays and health insurance (i'll leave this figure out, but it could be high)
assuming zero health-related costs, a ridiculously bare budget stripped to the bone, and zero expenses when ur back home, and zero transportation costs EVER,
i estimate ur expenses will be 7000 yearly

1L costs: 52,532+13,100+7,000 - 20k scholly = 52,632
2L costs: 54,203+11,352+7,000 - 20k scholly = 52,555
3L costs: 55,927+11,715+7,000 - 20k scholly = 54,642

u will probably not get biglaw from fordham
so let's assume $0 for 1L summer, and $5k for 2L summer at a non-biglaw job
accordingly, we will reduce your 3L costs by $5k
3L costs: 49,642

now we will factor in fees and interest

stafford loans will account for 20,500 of costs each year
with loan fees of 220 per year and interest at 6.21%
assuming six month deferment
you will accumulate 4,812 in interest on 1L loans, 3,332 in interest on 2L loans, and 1,939 in interest on 3L loans
for a total of 10,743 in stafford loan fees and interest

you will have unmet need of 32,132 1L, 32,055 2L, 29,142 3L
grad plus loans will cover this, with 4.292% origination fee and 7.21% interest
assuming six month deferment
you will have 1,379 in loan fees 1L, 1,376 2L, and 1,251 3L
you will accumulate 8,866 in interest on 1L loans, 6,094 in interest on 2L loans, and 3,208 in interest on 3L loans
for a total of 22,174 in plus loan fees and interest

this will bring the principle grand total to 154,829
and the total in loan fees and interest to 32,917
plus 28,000 in undergrad debt
plus, let's say, 5% interest over 3.5 years on that debt, so 5,241

my ridiculously almost laughably conservative estimate is that your total debt load at repayment will be

$220,987

($2,650 out of your pocket per month for ten years)

at fordham, 34.1% of the class got large firms
36.6% of the class failed to get any FT/LT/JD-required job nine months after graduation
so let's face it, the chances of biglaw are the same as the chances of getting nothing out of fordham
you can't rationally assume you will get a high caliber job out of fordham, you'd have to assume you have a greater chance of striking out of any legal job

so let's talk median outcomes
a very positive outcome at median for a student at fordham would be 60k
am i saying that a median student at fordham should expect 60K?
of course not, too many ppl from fordham are unemployed for a median student 2 feel safe
but i'm trying to be as generous and positive as i can while talking about fordham
so we're looking at 3,250 monthly, after tax
minus your 2,650 debt payments
which gives you 600 monthly to live on, in manhattan, on the ten year plan
remember -- this is if everything goes right, you don't exceed my bare bones budget, you don't strike out of a legal job, you keep the legal job, etc

or maybe you decide to ibr/paye the debt away
well now you have a negative six figure net worth hanging over your head for the next 20 years
and you'll screw your debt-to-income ratio
plus you have an extra 10 years to worry about being able to make payments, budgeting carefully
if you get a big raise, congrats! but your ibr/paye payments go up as well, they track with your income
over the long run you'll probably end up paying the same amount
plus you'll have a nice big fat tax bomb on the forgiven amount, which under ibr would probably be tremendous
so then you get to owe money to the irs, who i've heard are spectacular ppl to work w
this assumes that ibr/paye as it is now even stays in place for that long, which you would be praying it did

u are making an extremely risky decision
it's not too late to just say no
and reapply next cycle
with much better offers from much better schools
a much better chance of your goals
and much lower debt
all u need to do is just walk away

you deserve 2 have a good, fulfilling, prosperous life my friend
listen 2 reason
walk away from fordham

03152016

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby 03152016 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:07 pm

btw that took me forever
i rly rly hope u read and consider what i'm saying op

eta:
if u decide to do the right thing and walk away from fordham
the fine ppl on this forum will help u figure out where 2 go from here
lots of us have sat out cycles, many have walked away even after seat depositing
we've been in ur shoes and can help you
i promise u, in one year u will look back and realize this is the single best decision u've ever made in ur entire life

03152016

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby 03152016 » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:05 am

and my pleas fall on deaf ears

NYSprague

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby NYSprague » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:20 am

You can't save everyone. It's just part of the deal with posting here. You have to look at overall trends site wide.
Good work, though.

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santoki

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby santoki » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:57 pm

Brut wrote:and my pleas fall on deaf ears


hey brut, you get my PM by any chance?

Gregjames

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby Gregjames » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:38 am

Fordham

Lacoste

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby Lacoste » Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:10 pm

Brut wrote:i'm gonna give u some realistic numbers
i expect u've already calcified in ur position
but i'll post neways in the hopes u change ur mind
and to help others with 20k offers from fordham in the future

u are making an extremely risky decision
it's not too late to just say no
and reapply next cycle
with much better offers from much better schools
a much better chance of your goals
and much lower debt
all u need to do is just walk away

you deserve 2 have a good, fulfilling, prosperous life my friend
listen 2 reason
walk away from fordham


Could you do this same analysis if I threw a couple of hypotheticals your way? :D

03152016

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby 03152016 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:14 am

santoki wrote:
Brut wrote:and my pleas fall on deaf ears


hey brut, you get my PM by any chance?

sorry, been a little busy
i'll try to shoot you a pm this week once i have a chance to think about it

Lacoste wrote:
Brut wrote:i'm gonna give u some realistic numbers
i expect u've already calcified in ur position
but i'll post neways in the hopes u change ur mind
and to help others with 20k offers from fordham in the future

u are making an extremely risky decision
it's not too late to just say no
and reapply next cycle
with much better offers from much better schools
a much better chance of your goals
and much lower debt
all u need to do is just walk away

you deserve 2 have a good, fulfilling, prosperous life my friend
listen 2 reason
walk away from fordham


Could you do this same analysis if I threw a couple of hypotheticals your way? :D

what do you have in mind

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ManoftheHour

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby ManoftheHour » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:35 am

NYSprague wrote:You can't save everyone. It's just part of the deal with posting here. You have to look at overall trends site wide.
Good work, though.


You did well, Brut. Not everyone can be saved, but as long as there are people like you trying, once in a while, you'll end up saving someone from making a disastrous decision.

Paul Campos

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby Paul Campos » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:43 pm

Great work ITT Brut. I know it's easy to get discouraged sometimes but a quality post like that will hammer some sense into more than one person, and not just people considering the trappiest of trap schools.

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TheSpanishMain

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby TheSpanishMain » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:07 pm

Nicely done, Brut.

It amazes me that people would pay 220k for law school period, let alone Fordham.

msp8

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Re: Fordham ($) vs Cardozo ($$)

Postby msp8 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:52 am

Paul Campos wrote:Great work ITT Brut. I know it's easy to get discouraged sometimes but a quality post like that will hammer some sense into more than one person, and not just people considering the trappiest of trap schools.


Indeed. I read it today and appreciated the breakdown.



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