Wisconsin vs. UIUC Forum

[thebobs1987]

I go to UIUC and wouldn't pay over 100k for it and I am really happy here, but if you're at median you'll be making between 50 and 70.

Going to Wisc at 165 is even crazier. At least UIUC has ok big law numbers and decent LRAP for PI and employment numbers. Graduating from Wisc you'll almost certainly be making under 60k. How would you pay back that debt?

If you want to live in Wisconsin, move to Madison or Milwaukee and retake and get in-state and some scholarship money.

[bugsy33]

Does UW give significant merit scholarships? I mean you should probably re-take just to have more options but if you're set on UW and they don't really give good scholarships anyways I can see why you'd be hesitant.

This is exactly it, you nailed it. They don't give good merit scholarships. The people with good scholarships on LSN have LSAT scores that would preclude them from even considering UW-Madison. If I had a 168+ I would be looking at a whole different set of schools. I have the same scholarship now as people with scores 3 points higher. I doubt that I could realistically expect to gain more than 3 points on a retake anyway.

Hypothetically, if I retook and gained 2-3 points I would basically have the same options. Illinois and Wisconsin are both offering me scholarships indicative of people with scores 1-3 points higher. There is a large chance that I will get the same or less money next year, even with a retake.

[californiauser]

Does UW give significant merit scholarships? I mean you should probably re-take just to have more options but if you're set on UW and they don't really give good scholarships anyways I can see why you'd be hesitant.

This is exactly it, you nailed it. They don't give good merit scholarships. The people with good scholarships on LSN have LSAT scores that would preclude them from even considering UW-Madison. If I had a 168+ I would be looking at a whole different set of schools. I have the same scholarship now as people with scores 3 points higher. I doubt that I could realistically expect to gain more than 3 points on a retake anyway.

Hypothetically, if I retook and gained 2-3 points I would basically have the same options. Illinois and Wisconsin are both offering me scholarships indicative of people with scores 1-3 points higher. There is a large chance that I will get the same or less money next year, even with a retake.

Then don't go. Neither of these schools are worth more than 50k total, let alone 150k+

[CoffeeIsLife]

Does UW give significant merit scholarships? I mean you should probably re-take just to have more options but if you're set on UW and they don't really give good scholarships anyways I can see why you'd be hesitant.

This is exactly it, you nailed it. They don't give good merit scholarships. The people with good scholarships on LSN have LSAT scores that would preclude them from even considering UW-Madison. If I had a 168+ I would be looking at a whole different set of schools. I have the same scholarship now as people with scores 3 points higher. I doubt that I could realistically expect to gain more than 3 points on a retake anyway.

Hypothetically, if I retook and gained 2-3 points I would basically have the same options. Illinois and Wisconsin are both offering me scholarships indicative of people with scores 1-3 points higher. There is a large chance that I will get the same or less money next year, even with a retake.

Not sure if other people have mentioned it, but if you move to Madison, and gain residency while deferring, there is a chance you will keep your spot but lose the scholarship because of the deferral. I'm not positive how this works, but I've seen some threads that mention this.

[bugsy33]

Then don't go. Neither of these schools are worth more than 50k total, let alone 150k+

Shit like this is why people have serious doubts about TLS advice. You do realize that going to ANY school will at least cost 60k in living expenses?

So what, if you don't have a full ride to a T-40 school with a stipend you shouldn't go to law school? ...On second thought don't answer that.

But you have to understand that not everyone can score in the 95th percentile on the LSAT, jokes aside, a legal degree is worth more than $0.

[bugsy33]

Not sure if other people have mentioned it, but if you move to Madison, and gain residency while deferring, there is a chance you will keep your spot but lose the scholarship because of the deferral. I'm not positive how this works, but I've seen some threads that mention this.

This does seem like the best option if I really want to do UW, it's more of a question of feasibility and getting my s/o to go for it.

[worldtraveler]

Why can't you retake?

[californiauser]

Then don't go. Neither of these schools are worth more than 50k total, let alone 150k+

Shit like this is why people have serious doubts about TLS advice. You do realize that going to ANY school will at least cost 60k in living expenses?

So what, if you don't have a full ride to a T-40 school with a stipend you shouldn't go to law school? ...On second thought don't answer that.

But you have to understand that not everyone can score in the 95th percentile on the LSAT, jokes aside, a legal degree is worth more than $0.

No one is obligated to go to law school. If you can't get into a decent school at a reasonable price, don't go. Expect to make 30-40k a year coming out of these schools. How can you reasonably expect to pay back 100k+ in loans?

[McAvoy]

Then don't go. Neither of these schools are worth more than 50k total, let alone 150k+

Shit like this is why people have serious doubts about TLS advice. You do realize that going to ANY school will at least cost 60k in living expenses?

So what, if you don't have a full ride to a T-40 school with a stipend you shouldn't go to law school? ...On second thought don't answer that.

But you have to understand that not everyone can score in the 95th percentile on the LSAT, jokes aside, a legal degree is worth more than $0.

Don't take out more debt than you reasonably expect to make your first year, is the safe rule of thumb. So, yes, "don't go to UW without a near full ride" is legitimate advice. Do you have any idea what it'll be like to pay off 150K on a Wisconsin prosecutor's salary?

TLS is here to help you and take prospective students down a few pegs. If you make this borderline-suicidal decision, you can't say you weren't warned.

[HOS]

Illinois absolutely has a national reputation.

For some reason, Michigan gets elevated to God-like status but in reality it's the same school as Wisconsin (putting aside their different strengths) with Illinois only slightly behind in overall quality and prestige.

If Illinois had the same athletics as Wisconsin then it would be just as talked about among lay people. But they've had a few down seasons while Wisconsin has been on the rise - again, only talking about athletics here.

Considering the COA and percent in LTFT employment, this should be a no-brainer.

And I say this as someone who was waitlisted(!) and would like your seat and scholarship at UIUC.

What the fuck is this shit???

[bugsy33]

Illinois absolutely has a national reputation.

For some reason, Michigan gets elevated to God-like status but in reality it's the same school as Wisconsin (putting aside their different strengths) with Illinois only slightly behind in overall quality and prestige.

What the fuck is this shit???

I think he means as a overall school, which is probably true. There is little difference between UMich, UIUC, UW, and PSU when comparing overall.

Obviously there is a large difference between the law schools.

[cron1834]

This isn't Top-Undergrads.com. The law school is literally the only thing that matters.

[MistakenGenius]

Post removed.

[bugsy33]

Well, looks like UW doesn't do deferrals unless I have a medical emergency or get drafted into the military lol. Soooo crap.

[McAvoy]

Why do you think you wouldn't get in by straight-up reapplying? Improve your lsat one point and there will be no question.

[worldtraveler]

Why can't you retake?

[DportIA]

At this point, I hope OP goes with either school at these prices. He clearly deserves it. OP, please come back on here as a 2L or 3L and tell us how fast the interest is accumulating on your debt and how excited you are to pay it back on $45,000/yr living in Peoria/Rockford (or $45,000 living in Janesville).

If Wisconsin is stingy on scholarships, that's fine. Let economics/the market deal with that school's attitude in a declining applicant pool. Don't fall into UW's trap.

So: Good luck! Follow your dreamz!

[bugsy33]

Good news, checked with the admissions department and I can defer for a year after all. Apparently a few students do it every year to gain residency status. Tough decision

[BigZuck]

Good news, checked with the admissions department and I can defer for a year after all. Apparently a few students do it every year to gain residency status. Tough decision

What is tough about it?

Also:

Why can't you retake?

[bugsy33]

Good news, checked with the admissions department and I can defer for a year after all. Apparently a few students do it every year to gain residency status. Tough decision

What is tough about it?

Also:

Why can't you retake?

It's tough because UW would cost the same with instate tuition as UIUC costs now. It's a lost year of earning potential (most I'll make if I take a year off is 30-40k).

[CoffeeIsLife]

If you want Wisconsin just move to Madison, work for at least a year, you can retake if you want (you should) and you will get to save money, which will lower your debt total. Even if you don't make good money, it is still money you can use towards school.

[thebobs1987]

If you want Wisconsin just move to Madison, work for at least a year, you can retake if you want (you should) and you will get to save money, which will lower your debt total. Even if you don't make good money, it is still money you can use towards school.

TCR. Don't pay in-state sticker at Wisconsin. That's crazy

[WokeUpInACar]

Just hilarious that you are on one hand weighing the financial cost/benefit of future earnings lost by waiting a year, while on the other completely disregarding the ABSURD potential benefit both long term and short term that could be gained with (relatively) little effort in retaking the LSAT.

Also, hint: if you are getting scholarships now that people with higher LSATs than you are getting, maybe if you had their LSATs, your scholarship could be yet higher??? MAYBE???

[McAvoy]

And it's not a lost year of earning potential. If you make 35-40K, there's a good chance you're not making more than that (if you have any job) once you graduate from UW.

Move to Madison and retake, stay where you are and retake, or don't go to LS. Also, Madison >> any city in Michigan and >>>> Champaign.

[isuperserial]

Good news, checked with the admissions department and I can defer for a year after all. Apparently a few students do it every year to gain residency status. Tough decision

What is tough about it?

Also:

Why can't you retake?

It's tough because UW would cost the same with instate tuition as UIUC costs now. It's a lost year of earning potential (most I'll make if I take a year off is 30-40k).

Here's the thing, even if getting a bump in your LSAT doesn't help with UW (which it may or may not), it almost certainly will with UIUC. I have an LSAT score just a few points higher than yours and I got a near full ride. I know the situation is the same for a lot of people scoring around 163. UIUC is thirsty for people to improve their standing, and just being above the median can do awesome things. Personally, I think UIUC is going to end up being the less expensive option and therefore the lesser of two evils.

But look, it's easy to make an objective decision. Objectively, the right answer is retake for a better score and go to UIUC or somewhere on a full ride. However, if you would be deeply depressed going to a school like UIUC for whatever reason, then that's something only you can decide. I can't tell you how happy you'll be at one school or another.

I was looking forward to seeing you at UIUC this year, but looking at your situation thoroughly, I can't advise you attending under current circumstances. I think retake and reapply is your best option.