What is the difference between the T14s?

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beepboopbeep

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby beepboopbeep » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:10 am

manu6926 wrote:That 0L in my hypothetical example has to choose in 10 seconds which school to attend. Okay let's make it clearer. That OL has either the US ranking or LST to look at in 10 seconds, and he got into all the top schools.


So a 0L got into every t14 and has only ten seconds to decide. This 0L got no scholarship from any school despite having numbers that got him into HYS.

How is this a useful or plausible hypothetical?

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IAFG

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby IAFG » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:11 am

manu6926 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
manu6926 wrote:I was just trying to point out the absurdity of relying entirely on employment numbers.
But I don't get that. Do you not want to get a job? And the flat employment score isn't the be-all and end-all - it's what kinds of jobs going into that score as well, and how the employment score intersects with cost. I don't think anyone has ever denied that.


I'm not saying UVA$$ cannot be a better choice than Yale.


My point was the ranking gives one a better picture than the LST list. Every 0L should accumulat as much information as possible. But my claim is the rankings are useful (not that LST isn't useful. It is.).

If you don't want to actually learn the lay of the land, and already think you can't stomach a Michigan winter, they might be.

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby emu42 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:11 am

NYSprague wrote:
manu6926 wrote:
beepboopbeep wrote:
manu6926 wrote:Assuming sticker, it seems:
Y
HS
CCN (CC a bit better than N)
PV (little difference between NYU and P)
BMDNC
G


Why would you assume sticker?

Please, 0L, share your fountain of school rank wisdom (that you what, picked up from other TLS posters and are now parroting?)


I was just trying to point out the absurdity of relying entirely on employment numbers.

Are you related to the emo girl 0 L going to Harvard ? If not, you seem like you could be bffs.

because i'm going to harvard? given that i never arbitrarily ranked anything and don't care about prestige, what do we have in common?

half of your posts are criticizing me
Last edited by emu42 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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B.B. Homemaker

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby B.B. Homemaker » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:12 am

manu6926 wrote:
B.B. Homemaker wrote: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Look what I assumed. These ppl really can't read.
That 0L in my hypothetical example has to choose in 10 seconds which school to attend. Okay let's make it clearer. That OL has either the US ranking or LST to look at in 10 seconds, and he got into all the top schools.

Me??

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Postby manu6926 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:12 am

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Last edited by manu6926 on Sun May 25, 2014 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby manu6926 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:14 am

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Last edited by manu6926 on Sun May 25, 2014 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

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B.B. Homemaker

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby B.B. Homemaker » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:14 am

manu6926 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Also, you're still retroactively justifying the US News survey. Why?


I've lived in Europe, Canada, Asia. Every country has school rankings.

My point is the rankings are useful, to some exent.

lol

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beepboopbeep

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby beepboopbeep » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:14 am

manu6926 wrote:I've lived in Europe, Canada, Asia. Every country has school rankings.


I was totally unconvinced, but this swayed me.

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Postby manu6926 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:16 am

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Mack.Hambleton

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:20 am

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Last edited by Mack.Hambleton on Wed May 07, 2014 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

manu6926

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Postby manu6926 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:26 am

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Postby manu6926 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:35 am

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rad lulz

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:46 am

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Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

emu42

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby emu42 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:00 am

manu6926 wrote:
I never ranked anything. If anything, I "parrotted" what others on this forum seem to usually say. Hence I said "it seems".
I don't think you are even real. You imagine yourself to be a HLS student. or HLS made a mistake.

lolwut, i didn't even criticize you, relax

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cotiger

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby cotiger » Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:06 am

rad lulz wrote:
manu6926 wrote:What is this?

I think it's stupid to rely entirely on statistics. As Jbagelboy said, according to those stats, Columbia, Stanford and Chicago are better than Yale, but we know that's not true.

I really think the US News rankings are useful. Assuming no scholarships, if a 0L has to make a decision as to which school to attend in 10 seconds, and if this 0L got into all the top schools, he would be best served by choosing the highest ranked school.
Assuming sticker, it seems:
Y
HS
CCN (CC a bit better than N)
PV (little difference between NYU and P)
BMDNC
G

This is definitely the stupidest thing I've seen all day


In case you're unclear, let me illustrate with a drawing. T14 law schools are kind of like a house. A tiered house that looks a little bit like this:

Image

As you can see, by the time you get to the very top it's pretty much just a bunch of doors.

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby EquallyWrong » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:45 am

cotiger wrote:In case you're unclear, let me illustrate with a drawing. T14 law schools are kind of like a house. A tiered house that looks a little bit like this:

Image

As you can see, by the time you get to the very top it's pretty much just a bunch of doors.

Only objection is that the doors are drawn as closed, when we all know that the whole point of a JD is to open them. I think people might get the picture if every tier had the same number of doors, but with more closed doors the further down one went...and depicted next to those were the frowning faces of the unprestigious non-HYS preterite...maybe even add a wider panorama depicting friends and loved ones very impressed (grandmothers weeping for joy, former crushes exposing themselves in flustered amazement, etc) at the top and growing more and more indifferent as one drops down the list...with an outfolding triptych depicting the second and third their schools, second tier depicting lives of pauperdom and third tier showing the various methods of suicide available. Then, maybe, people would finally get it.

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby MrSebastian » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:46 am

Take a look at the way US News makes its rankings, it's somewhat awful (http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... s-rankings).

25% is based on how deans and prominent faculty members rate other schools, which is totally subjective. Many don't know much about other schools yet their opinions have a lot of influence (you can see how this results in a circular argument for the rankings).

Meanwhile, only 20% is based on job placement. I'd like to think that hard employment data counts more than the opinions of a handful of people, but no. I kinda like how ATL ranks schools a lot better, since it leaves out the whole subjectivity component and is mostly based on employment numbers and job quality (they're coming out with the new ranking tomorrow BTW).

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby wons » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:01 am

Repeat this until it sinks in:

Not all biglaw jobs are the same. Not all biglaw jobs are the same. Not all biglaw jobs are the same.

Biglaw jobs (mostly) PAY the same, but they AREN'T the same.

HYS and CCN place significantly better into the top firms. This is particularly important for transactional work.

I don't think there's much distinction between the alphabet soup of lower T14s, but there's a step down from Yale in terms of top firm placement, a step down from H&S, and then a step down from CCN.

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Holly Golightly

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby Holly Golightly » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:09 am

MrSebastian wrote:Take a look at the way US News makes its rankings, it's somewhat awful (http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... s-rankings).

25% is based on how deans and prominent faculty members rate other schools, which is totally subjective. Many don't know much about other schools yet their opinions have a lot of influence (you can see how this results in a circular argument for the rankings).

Meanwhile, only 20% is based on job placement. I'd like to think that hard employment data counts more than the opinions of a handful of people, but no. I kinda like how ATL ranks schools a lot better, since it leaves out the whole subjectivity component and is mostly based on employment numbers and job quality (they're coming out with the new ranking tomorrow BTW).

Schools also get points for charging ridiculous tuition rates. It's absurd.

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby Otunga » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:27 am

wons wrote:Repeat this until it sinks in:

Not all biglaw jobs are the same. Not all biglaw jobs are the same. Not all biglaw jobs are the same.

Biglaw jobs (mostly) PAY the same, but they AREN'T the same.

HYS and CCN place significantly better into the top firms. This is particularly important for transactional work.

I don't think there's much distinction between the alphabet soup of lower T14s, but there's a step down from Yale in terms of top firm placement, a step down from H&S, and then a step down from CCN.


I'm a 0L but this is what seems to be the case to me also. Although, Penn's numbers are stronger than MVDCN.

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby lecsa » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:38 am

wons wrote:Repeat this until it sinks in:

Not all biglaw jobs are the same. Not all biglaw jobs are the same. Not all biglaw jobs are the same.

Biglaw jobs (mostly) PAY the same, but they AREN'T the same.

HYS and CCN place significantly better into the top firms. This is particularly important for transactional work.

I don't think there's much distinction between the alphabet soup of lower T14s, but there's a step down from Yale in terms of top firm placement, a step down from H&S, and then a step down from CCN.

Are you currently in biglaw?
QOL is more important than firm rankings. A lot of the highest ranked firms have the worst billables and worst QOL. Firm rankings are stupid. It boggles the mind when people say stuff like this. Good luck billing minimum 2500 to 3000 for minimal prestige boost. A lot of in house jobs suck too QOL wise. The reward for finishing your work is more work boring work.

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby 3L2014 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:45 am

[/quote]

I really think the US News rankings are useful. Assuming no scholarships, if a 0L has to make a decision as to which school to attend in 10 seconds, and if this 0L got into all the top schools, he would be best served by choosing the highest ranked school.
Assuming sticker, it seems:
Y
HS
CCN (CC a bit better than N)
PV (little difference between NYU and P)
BMDNC
G[/quote]
This is definitely the stupidest thing I've seen all day[/quote]

egregious UVA trolling

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby wons » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:08 am

I am currently a midlevel associate at a big firm, and you are entirely, 100%, like, literally the opposite of correct, wrong. I award you no points, and may god and Winston & Strawn have mercy upon your soul.


lecsa wrote:
wons wrote:Repeat this until it sinks in:

Not all biglaw jobs are the same. Not all biglaw jobs are the same. Not all biglaw jobs are the same.

Biglaw jobs (mostly) PAY the same, but they AREN'T the same.

HYS and CCN place significantly better into the top firms. This is particularly important for transactional work.

I don't think there's much distinction between the alphabet soup of lower T14s, but there's a step down from Yale in terms of top firm placement, a step down from H&S, and then a step down from CCN.

Are you currently in biglaw?
QOL is more important than firm rankings. A lot of the highest ranked firms have the worst billables and worst QOL. Firm rankings are stupid. It boggles the mind when people say stuff like this. Good luck billing minimum 2500 to 3000 for minimal prestige boost. A lot of in house jobs suck too QOL wise. The reward for finishing your work is more work boring work.

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby BanjoCalhoun » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:26 am

EquallyWrong wrote:Only objection is that the doors are drawn as closed, when we all know that the whole point of a JD is to open them. I think people might get the picture if every tier had the same number of doors, but with more closed doors the further down one went...and depicted next to those were the frowning faces of the unprestigious non-HYS preterite...maybe even add a wider panorama depicting friends and loved ones very impressed (grandmothers weeping for joy, former crushes exposing themselves in flustered amazement, etc) at the top and growing more and more indifferent as one drops down the list...with an outfolding triptych depicting the second and third their schools, second tier depicting lives of pauperdom and third tier showing the various methods of suicide available. Then, maybe, people would finally get it.


I love this.

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Re: What is the difference between the T14s?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:31 am

wons wrote:I am currently a midlevel associate at a big firm, and you are entirely, 100%, like, literally the opposite of correct, wrong. I award you no points, and may god and Winston & Strawn have mercy upon your soul.


lecsa wrote:
wons wrote:Repeat this until it sinks in:

Not all biglaw jobs are the same. Not all biglaw jobs are the same. Not all biglaw jobs are the same.

Biglaw jobs (mostly) PAY the same, but they AREN'T the same.

HYS and CCN place significantly better into the top firms. This is particularly important for transactional work.

I don't think there's much distinction between the alphabet soup of lower T14s, but there's a step down from Yale in terms of top firm placement, a step down from H&S, and then a step down from CCN.

Are you currently in biglaw?
QOL is more important than firm rankings. A lot of the highest ranked firms have the worst billables and worst QOL. Firm rankings are stupid. It boggles the mind when people say stuff like this. Good luck billing minimum 2500 to 3000 for minimal prestige boost. A lot of in house jobs suck too QOL wise. The reward for finishing your work is more work boring work.


Guy who wears his Sulcrom bag with the logo facing outward.



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