Help, TLS. Last minute decision.

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Coast to coast, baby.

USC - 110k total COA
20
30%
Fordham - 60k total COA
47
70%
 
Total votes: 67

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MT Cicero

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Re: Help, TLS. Last minute decision.

Postby MT Cicero » Sat May 10, 2014 11:07 am

Almost everyone in this thread has a pretty thoughtful, measured response of late. My initial posting of the MyLSN data was to counter the post above that which seemed to completely scoff a couple points. I think those 1-2 points bring in ten of thousands possibly. OP, I'm actually in the camp that there are no "bad" options in your situation. I think I'd take Fordham in your shoes out of the original choices. At $60k total COA, completely defensible.

Are there other schools (like NU) that you get free housing during attendance? It seems like I'd still like to peek behind the curtain in terms of numbers. Because if you're getting some outside aid from somewhere for other schools, you don't really need to 174+. Lower T14 with $20-25k/year is doable even with that GPA and a 171ish.

If there's no living help at Duke/UVA/Mich/Cornell et al, then I think you're not likely to have a great chance to improve overall outcome. But if you snag even $15-20k at NU with free living, that's a $130k COA or so right?

You do seem to have given much more thought to your capability on the LSAT and feel that the 170+ is quite unlikely. If you could look in the crystal ball and see that to be true, I'd be done even considering it. But people have figured themselves topped out before only to have it "click" at a certain point and start blazing 173+ PTs left and right. Just wanted to throw out there!

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Have you met Lydia?

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Re: Help, TLS. Last minute decision.

Postby Have you met Lydia? » Sat May 10, 2014 11:42 am

I appreciate the encouragement. You are right that a couple of points might mean another 10k at NU. It's possible. I just am not sure I can do that on the test and I am not even sure that outcome is worth a year.

Regarding the choices that I posted:

Looking at 2013 data, Fordham is an easy call. But it's not obvious whether 2013 is a fluke or the start of a pattern. I've been reading for a week now and I've yet to discover just why Fordham's numbers spiked in the last couple of reported years. They weren't even reducing class size at that time. USC probably did worse due to class size which they have since reduced... It's a tough call.

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MT Cicero

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Re: Help, TLS. Last minute decision.

Postby MT Cicero » Sat May 10, 2014 12:04 pm

Have you met Lydia? wrote:I appreciate the encouragement. You are right that a couple of points might mean another 10k at NU. It's possible. I just am not sure I can do that on the test and I am not even sure that outcome is worth a year.

Regarding the choices that I posted:

Looking at 2013 data, Fordham is an easy call. But it's not obvious whether 2013 is a fluke or the start of a pattern. I've been reading for a week now and I've yet to discover just why Fordham's numbers spiked in the last couple of reported years. They weren't even reducing class size at that time. USC probably did worse due to class size which they have since reduced... It's a tough call.


Go look at the scholly graphs on MyLSN for NU with 3.4/170, 3.4/171, 3.4/172. It is not $10k (I assume you're talking per year). It's more like $15-20k/year and there are plenty with much more. NU is the one school with a sub-3.4 25th percentile. So, if you're talking 25th-50th GPA and 75th LSAT or above (171 is 75th), you're not exactly some super splitter with a heinous GPA. I know because I am that heinous GPA super splitter!

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Have you met Lydia?

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Re: Help, TLS. Last minute decision.

Postby Have you met Lydia? » Sat May 10, 2014 12:09 pm

Soco Law wrote:Go look at the scholly graphs on MyLSN for NU with 3.4/170, 3.4/171, 3.4/172. It is not $10k (I assume you're talking per year). It's more like $15-20k/year and there are plenty with much more. NU is the one school with a sub-3.4 25th percentile. So, if you're talking 25th-50th GPA and 75th LSAT or above (171 is 75th), you're not exactly some super splitter with a heinous GPA. I know because I am that heinous GPA super splitter!


Right, but I'm already getting about that at Cornell, and I consider them peers, so it's very limited upside. (I've looked at the 3.4 170 +/- for every school in the top 20.)

If anyone has any thoughts about whether or not Fordham will continue their solid 2013 numbers, please let me know.

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MT Cicero

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Re: Help, TLS. Last minute decision.

Postby MT Cicero » Sat May 10, 2014 12:15 pm

Have you met Lydia? wrote:
Soco Law wrote:Go look at the scholly graphs on MyLSN for NU with 3.4/170, 3.4/171, 3.4/172. It is not $10k (I assume you're talking per year). It's more like $15-20k/year and there are plenty with much more. NU is the one school with a sub-3.4 25th percentile. So, if you're talking 25th-50th GPA and 75th LSAT or above (171 is 75th), you're not exactly some super splitter with a heinous GPA. I know because I am that heinous GPA super splitter!


Right, but I'm already getting about that at Cornell, and I consider them peers, so it's very limited upside. (I've looked at the 3.4 170 +/- for every school in the top 20.)


Yeah, I chose NU because you said you can live there for free. So, COA = tuition/fees + interest. Seems like a couple points could get you to about where your USC COA is. Again, no guarantees, so I completely understand you taking a bird in the hand when you might have to trek 20 miles to find a bush that may or may not have a couple birds in it. But, there could be some plump birds waiting!

/absurd metaphor

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cron1834

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Re: Help, TLS. Last minute decision.

Postby cron1834 » Sat May 10, 2014 2:19 pm

OP, I think one of the things that rubbed me the wrong way ITT is the insistence that you can't wait a year (or two, or whatever). I'm a 0L, but I'm a nontrad 0L, 10 years out of undergrad. When I chat with some of my fellow 0Ls, one point I frequently raise is the fact that every labor market analysis performed these days suggests that the average 20something is going to change careers a couple of times before they kick the bucket. I've already had one career change, and if I end up in the law it will be my second.

The fact is, you don't know if you're going to like the law, or be any good at it. Neither do I. You certainly don't know if you're going to be good at law school exams; your total lack of confidence in your LSAT potential suggests that you should be wary of them, which is frightening, as all of the crowdsourced wisdom here on TLS suggests they're hugely determinative of outcomes.

There are more people going into law school a few years into their careers than ever before, and there are more JDs in non-lawyer jobs than ever before. Some of that is ITE, but a lot of it is just secular demographic trends. I almost went to law school 10 years ago, and guess what? A decade later, it's still an option. In fact, admit medians have fallen to shit since then.

I just think that, in the long view, you're very likely to look back on life a decade or two down the road and suspect that the rush to go to a middling school as fast as possible was misguided, or at least unnecessary. I know you're not a K-JD, so I thought you might be receptive to this line of thought. If the law is only a probable long term fit for you, I think it makes sense to go to the best school possible (within certain debt limits) so a to maximize the options it provides.



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