Howard v. Hofstra Forum

[Meowaka]

Kaplan is a terrible prep company. This site is a gold mine of LSAT info, so read as many threads as you can and make a new plan. With a lot of hard work, I think you'll surprise yourself with how high you can score.

Gl!

Thank you

I will look into this...

But it raises more questions for me - am I best served requesting that my pending applications be completely withdrawn from the running, and make another go of applying for the spring semesters that some T14 schools offer? (Assuming I can take the next available test?)

[timbs4339]

So it's T14 from the get-go or nothing if I want to make anything out of myself once I'm finished with law school. Not even transferring from a lower ranking school with excellent grades and rank would save me.

I am inclined to follow your advice, but it does seem abupt, and because I clearly don't understand this whole thing as clearly as you all are able to see it, could I ask some of you to elaborate on a few of the points that you've made? I clearly need ot rethink some things, and I need to know where to start.

Everyone is trying to transfer. Everyone has this exact same excuse. We've heard it a thousand times, there is no reason why your particular mix of abilities makes you a better law school exam taker than the person next to you, who I can guarantee will be thinking the exact same thing about the LSAT, law school exams and transferring. There's too much money riding on a law school education for them to think anything else.

We're not saying that you can't "make anything out of yourself" from a non-T14. But you've described something that very few lawyers in the world get to do and they all mostly come from T14 law schools. If you wanted make something of yourself as a public defender or a small firm lawyer writing wills or something, it would be a different story. But you've described a career path that is really selective.

Think about taking a few cycles if you need to. Law school is not going anywhere, in fact, it may get a lot cheaper in the next few years.
As for Howard being HCBU, it means that you need to take this into account when evaluating their biglaw stats as applied to your situation.

[timbs4339]

Ok, so here's what I thought I knew by listening to other attorneys that I know (work with):

It's best to take the LSAT only once, because the chances of increasing a score aren't fantastic.

It doesn't matter what law school you go to, as long as you make the right connections from the get-go.

It pays to be in the area you want to be in even if you don't get into your school of choice, because the option of transferring is there. But most importantly, the connections you make in the area are the most viable.

Getting into a T1 is fantastic, but if that won't work out, you'll find a way to get where you need to go.

I'm really considering taking the LSAT again, because of the very strong opinion on this forum. It may mean that I have to halt all plans and figure out some new ones. This will be quite a shock to my husband, and the few people I've told about law school, if I decide to go this route.

Would someone be kind enough to tell me why American is a terrible idea? I know they aren't ranked highly in most areas, but in international law they seem to be fantastic, top 10. I would like to know more about your opinions on the school.

If I decide not to retake, and I have to change my ideals/job, what kind of career am I going to be looking at concerning anything having to do with international law jobs?

Are these American attorneys?

[Meowaka]

Ok, so here's what I thought I knew by listening to other attorneys that I know (work with):

It's best to take the LSAT only once, because the chances of increasing a score aren't fantastic.

It doesn't matter what law school you go to, as long as you make the right connections from the get-go.

It pays to be in the area you want to be in even if you don't get into your school of choice, because the option of transferring is there. But most importantly, the connections you make in the area are the most viable.

Getting into a T1 is fantastic, but if that won't work out, you'll find a way to get where you need to go.

I'm really considering taking the LSAT again, because of the very strong opinion on this forum. It may mean that I have to halt all plans and figure out some new ones. This will be quite a shock to my husband, and the few people I've told about law school, if I decide to go this route.

Would someone be kind enough to tell me why American is a terrible idea? I know they aren't ranked highly in most areas, but in international law they seem to be fantastic, top 10. I would like to know more about your opinions on the school.

If I decide not to retake, and I have to change my ideals/job, what kind of career am I going to be looking at concerning anything having to do with international law jobs?

Are these American attorneys?

Yes.

[californiauser]

Ok, so here's what I thought I knew by listening to other attorneys that I know (work with):

It's best to take the LSAT only once, because the chances of increasing a score aren't fantastic.

It doesn't matter what law school you go to, as long as you make the right connections from the get-go.

It pays to be in the area you want to be in even if you don't get into your school of choice, because the option of transferring is there. But most importantly, the connections you make in the area are the most viable.

Getting into a T1 is fantastic, but if that won't work out, you'll find a way to get where you need to go.

I'm really considering taking the LSAT again, because of the very strong opinion on this forum. It may mean that I have to halt all plans and figure out some new ones. This will be quite a shock to my husband, and the few people I've told about law school, if I decide to go this route.

Would someone be kind enough to tell me why American is a terrible idea? I know they aren't ranked highly in most areas, but in international law they seem to be fantastic, top 10. I would like to know more about your opinions on the school.

If I decide not to retake, and I have to change my ideals/job, what kind of career am I going to be looking at concerning anything having to do with international law jobs?

Are these American attorneys?

Yes.

When did they graduate law school and where do you work?

[timbs4339]

It's best to take the LSAT only once, because the chances of increasing a score aren't fantastic.

I mean, that's wrong for two obvious reasons. The average retaker increases (search "LSAT Repeater Data" in the google), and in today's climate, the average increase of 2-3 points is worth tens of thousands in scholly money. Second, even if you don't increase, there's no downside to retaking because schools are not punished for taking the highest score. Random statistical variation means it's possible to increase without even improving your understanding of the test.

It doesn't matter what law school you go to, as long as you make the right connections from the get-go.

It pays to be in the area you want to be in even if you don't get into your school of choice, because the option of transferring is there. But most importantly, the connections you make in the area are the most viable.

Getting into a T1 is fantastic, but if that won't work out, you'll find a way to get where you need to go.

That's just wrong. There's a reason why some schools feed into biglaw and federal clerkships and others don't. And your first job in this profession determines so much of the career opportunities available to you. If you do not get a biglaw job out of the gate, it is likely that you will not practice international corporate law- that's a fact.

Would someone be kind enough to tell me why American is a terrible idea? I know they aren't ranked highly in most areas, but in international law they seem to be fantastic, top 10. I would like to know more about your opinions on the school.

This is why: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/american/2012/

Specialty rankings are flame. They are done by surveying law professors about the quality of other schools' law professors and their scholarship. Employers do not really care what you learn in law school because law school does not purport to teach you anything that would be specifically useful to them. They have to train you from the ground up anyway, a few extra classes is of no great importance to them. It's not a great system, but that's how it works. There's nothing you can do except give yourself a decent opportunity to succeed.

[transferror]

Ok, so here's what I thought I knew by listening to other attorneys that I know (work with):

It's best to take the LSAT only once, because the chances of increasing a score aren't fantastic.

It doesn't matter what law school you go to, as long as you make the right connections from the get-go.

It pays to be in the area you want to be in even if you don't get into your school of choice, because the option of transferring is there. But most importantly, the connections you make in the area are the most viable.

Getting into a T1 is fantastic, but if that won't work out, you'll find a way to get where you need to go.

I'm really considering taking the LSAT again, because of the very strong opinion on this forum. It may mean that I have to halt all plans and figure out some new ones. This will be quite a shock to my husband, and the few people I've told about law school, if I decide to go this route.

Would someone be kind enough to tell me why American is a terrible idea? I know they aren't ranked highly in most areas, but in international law they seem to be fantastic, top 10. I would like to know more about your opinions on the school.

If I decide not to retake, and I have to change my ideals/job, what kind of career am I going to be looking at concerning anything having to do with international law jobs?

People don't score well on retakes because they don't do it right. Read this: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&t=224337

Why American is a terrible idea: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... jobs/2012/
Less than 40% of AU grads are lawyers in full-time jobs. That's awful, especially considering the price. A high ranking in International Law doesn't mean that people get employed in that field, it just means they have great professors in that field.

EDIT: scooped

[Meowaka]

Everyone is trying to transfer. Everyone has this exact same excuse. We've heard it a thousand times, there is no reason why your particular mix of abilities makes you a better law school exam taker than the person next to you, who I can guarantee will be thinking the exact same thing about the LSAT, law school exams and transferring. There's too much money riding on a law school education for them to think anything else.

We're not saying that you can't "make anything out of yourself" from a non-T14. But you've described something that very few lawyers in the world get to do and they all mostly come from T14 law schools. If you wanted make something of yourself as a public defender or a small firm lawyer writing wills or something, it would be a different story. But you've described a career path that is really selective.

Think about taking a few cycles if you need to. Law school is not going anywhere, in fact, it may get a lot cheaper in the next few years.
As for Howard being HCBU, it means that you need to take this into account when evaluating their biglaw stats as applied to your situation.

At this point, I'm just trying to understand what I need to know to get where I want to get. I should have joined the forum earlier to get this kick in the ass. Granted.

I'm not trying to make excuses, I really did think I only had one shot. What you're saying makes sense though, so instead of wallowing, I need to make a new plan, and I thank all of you for your advice.

If my aspirations don't make sense, I would like to know what other options there are. I definitely want to be able to move around the world practicing law. Whether that's through a U.S. firm or otherwise. Maybe I've been thinking of this whole thing the wrong way. I probably have. If you guys will continue indulging me for a while longer, I would certainly appreciate it.

[Meowaka]

When did they graduate law school and where do you work?

The youngest person I know graduated 6 years ago. I work at *place*. I'm a receptionist there. I thought it would be good to see the profession first- hand before applying to law school to make sure it's what I wanted. Consumer Finance isn't the best thing in the world, but I do understand the "job" a little bit. I got work there as a receptionist and the original plan was to move up to LAA before making the decision to attend law school, but it doesn't seem that's in the cards, so I decided to move on and take the LSAT in February.

[Meowaka]

People don't score well on retakes because they don't do it right. Read this: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&t=224337

Why American is a terrible idea: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... jobs/2012/
Less than 40% of AU grads are lawyers in full-time jobs. That's awful, especially considering the price. A high ranking in International Law doesn't mean that people get employed in that field, it just means they have great professors in that field.

EDIT: scooped

Thank you so much for the link! I will be checking that out!

American is pricey, and the stats aren't great, agreed. Like I said, I was mostly interested in the Dual Degree programme with France, but that, as has been mentioned, is silly, rather than productive. I would like to know, in a little more detail, if possible, why that's a very silly option...

[Meowaka]

That's just wrong. There's a reason why some schools feed into biglaw and federal clerkships and others don't. And your first job in this profession determines so much of the career opportunities available to you. If you do not get a biglaw job out of the gate, it is likely that you will not practice international corporate law- that's a fact.


Specialty rankings are flame. They are done by surveying law professors about the quality of other schools' law professors and their scholarship. Employers do not really care what you learn in law school because law school does not purport to teach you anything that would be specifically useful to them. They have to train you from the ground up anyway, a few extra classes is of no great importance to them. It's not a great system, but that's how it works. There's nothing you can do except give yourself a decent opportunity to succeed.

Ok, so clearly for what I want, I must go back to the drawing board, fact.

Thank you for taking the time to explain that to me!

I have heard a lot of smaller schools talk about how they focus on practical application study during ones time there. Because they have those opportunities, they claim, the people who graduate are better prepared for the job market. Now, I didn't really believe every single thing I've read about these schools. I have been reading law Week, Colorado, and they claim that some of the Tier 1 & 2 schools are focusing more on getting people working whilst in law school. So I'm kind of interested in what you all have to say about that. Crock? Fantasy? Irrelevant?

Probably all of these things where I'm concerned at the moment, but I really am learning a lot here. So I thank you for all your patience.

[transferror]

That's just wrong. There's a reason why some schools feed into biglaw and federal clerkships and others don't. And your first job in this profession determines so much of the career opportunities available to you. If you do not get a biglaw job out of the gate, it is likely that you will not practice international corporate law- that's a fact.


Specialty rankings are flame. They are done by surveying law professors about the quality of other schools' law professors and their scholarship. Employers do not really care what you learn in law school because law school does not purport to teach you anything that would be specifically useful to them. They have to train you from the ground up anyway, a few extra classes is of no great importance to them. It's not a great system, but that's how it works. There's nothing you can do except give yourself a decent opportunity to succeed.

Ok, so clearly for what I want, I must go back to the drawing board, fact.

Thank you for taking the time to explain that to me!

I have heard a lot of smaller schools talk about how they focus on practical application study during ones time there. Because they have those opportunities, they claim, the people who graduate are better prepared for the job market. Now, I didn't really believe every single thing I've read about these schools. I have been reading Law Week, Colorado, and they claim that some of the Tier 1 & 2 schools are focusing more on getting people working whilst in law school. So I'm kind of interested in what you all have to say about that. Crock? Fantasy? Irrelevant?

Probably all of these things where I'm concerned at the moment, but I really am learning a lot here. So I thank you for all your patience.

First, the dual program is stupid because of the school, not the degree itself. I don't know whether or not the degree itself will give you more opportunity, but if you're fluent in French and have a JD from a T14, I would imagine a T14 + French trumps dual degree at American. If anyone who knows anything would like to chime in, that'd be great.

As far as "getting people working whilst in law school," several T1s and T2s might better prepare their students for work in the legal field, but that has nothing to do with whether or not their students will be employed. I'd rather be unprepared with a 90% chance of employment than completely prepared with a 35-50% chance of employment, which is basically what they are offering at most T1s and T2s selling this stuff. So yes, it's irrelevant. Being prepared to do legal work only helps if you can get a job doing legal work.

Seriously, retake the LSAT and go to an amazing school. Stop overthinking this. The test is beatable and plenty of people have done it. Your turn. You could very well be at Harvard or Columbia next year if you take this seriously, so let that swirl around in your head for a second.

[PattyCake]

Seriously, retake the LSAT and go to an amazing school. Stop overthinking this. The test is beatable and plenty of people have done it. Your turn. You could very well be at Harvard or Columbia next year if you take this seriously, so let that swirl around in your head for a second.

I'm not sure I agree with this 100%, because you work full time and it may be that you simply can't dedicate the time necessary to pull your score as high this poster suggested. That said, have you considered a non-JD program? There are many, many career options in international relations that don't necessarily require a JD, especially if you will happily relocate to developing parts of the world. You could do an MA in international affairs (shorter, possibly cheaper if you do better on the GRE than you did on the LSAT and get some scholarship assistance). Many PhD programs actually pay you a stipend while you're completing your coursework and progressing toward candidacy. The LSAT measures a very specific kind of ability - it does NOT measure how "smart" you are. You might do very, very well on the GRE (especially now that you've honed your study skills with the LSAT - the most evil test you could possibly study for).

I know you said you're set on law school, but you also implied that you didn't think things out as well as you should have. Is it possible that you would be much happier pursuing your goals through a different degree? There are a TON of people who aren't JD's who do Wrong Rightin' professionally, so if that's what you're looking for you might even want to look more at the social sciences, etc.

[reasonable_man]

Op, you have to be a troll. You just have to be. A special snowflake with a BA from a junk college in God knows what with a low LSAT Score, talking about attending two terrible law schools (and planning on transferring out no less), with the intent to do "international law..." You just have to be a troll - its just too perfect. I mean, you're even pretending to me too dense to know that no one keeps merit scholarships at dumps like Hofstra... Its just too perfect...

[TheSpanishMain]

I definitely want to be able to move around the world practicing law. Whether that's through a U.S. firm or otherwise. Maybe I've been thinking of this whole thing the wrong way. I probably have. If you guys will continue indulging me for a while longer, I would certainly appreciate it.

Keep in mind, jobs where you "move around the world practicing law" are vanishingly rare. A US law degree teaches you how to practice US law, and there is no roving caravan of international lawyers to join. If a company has a question about how a certain German law is going to impact their overseas operation, they don't consult an "international" US attorney with his high school German. They just ask a German lawyer.

Maybe if you spoke a foreign language with native fluency and had a T14 degree, you might be able to find an overseas job. Just keep in mind that what you say you want to do is really, really, really, really unlikely. If you want a job that involves a lot of overseas travel, maybe you should look at something else entirely.

Also, be very wary of boomer attorneys giving you advice, especially about choosing a school and the LSAT. I'm sure they mean well, but they graduated into a totally different job market and likely have no idea what it would be like for you coming out of Howard/Hofstra.

[Meowaka]

Op, you have to be a troll. You just have to be. A special snowflake with a BA from a junk college in God knows what with a low LSAT Score, talking about attending two terrible law schools (and planning on transferring out no less), with the intent to do "international law..." You just have to be a troll - its just too perfect. I mean, you're even pretending to me too dense to know that no one keeps merit scholarships at dumps like Hofstra... Its just too perfect...

I'm not dense, and I'm not a troll. I just didn't have the right advice before now... which is why I'm here now. Jesus, I wish that I had your knowledge going into this process but I didn't. I'm trying to make the best out of a shitty situation as it stands. In all my years on various forums, I've never met a troll who was thankful for help, so you must have a special idea of trolling.

Anyway, thanks for your input?

[timbs4339]

That's just wrong. There's a reason why some schools feed into biglaw and federal clerkships and others don't. And your first job in this profession determines so much of the career opportunities available to you. If you do not get a biglaw job out of the gate, it is likely that you will not practice international corporate law- that's a fact.


Specialty rankings are flame. They are done by surveying law professors about the quality of other schools' law professors and their scholarship. Employers do not really care what you learn in law school because law school does not purport to teach you anything that would be specifically useful to them. They have to train you from the ground up anyway, a few extra classes is of no great importance to them. It's not a great system, but that's how it works. There's nothing you can do except give yourself a decent opportunity to succeed.

Ok, so clearly for what I want, I must go back to the drawing board, fact.

Thank you for taking the time to explain that to me!

I have heard a lot of smaller schools talk about how they focus on practical application study during ones time there. Because they have those opportunities, they claim, the people who graduate are better prepared for the job market. Now, I didn't really believe every single thing I've read about these schools. I have been reading Law Week, Colorado, and they claim that some of the Tier 1 & 2 schools are focusing more on getting people working whilst in law school. So I'm kind of interested in what you all have to say about that. Crock? Fantasy? Irrelevant?

Probably all of these things where I'm concerned at the moment, but I really am learning a lot here. So I thank you for all your patience.

Shameless marketing.

1) Go to a T14 website. Browse the number of clinics, the number of externships available for students. Having gone to a T14 myself, those schools have a lot more money to spend on things like clinics or externships.

2) If you want to seek work outside of the school's clinical or externship offerings, then it's better to go to a school in an urban area, whether T14 or non-T14. There are more organizations or firms that are willing to bring on paid or unpaid help. But one great thing about going to a top school was that the grade curve was much easier. There was no pressure to maintain a certain GPA to keep my scholarship, and once 1L was over most people took class a lot easier. So it was totally okay to blow off school once in awhile for a part-time job.

3) The track record of practice-ready programs in getting people work is not good. The best data we have is from Washington and Lee, and their program has not seen any bump in hiring prospects (http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... ritt-.html). Job rates are only going to pick up in a few years when the smaller class sizes hit the market.

The truth is it doesn't really matter. There are firms that do international arbitration and international mergers. They are the huge mega-firms that hire you after your first year based primarily on the rank of your school and your 1L grades. One of those things is within your control right now.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Op, you have to be a troll. You just have to be. A special snowflake with a BA from a junk college in God knows what with a low LSAT Score, talking about attending two terrible law schools (and planning on transferring out no less), with the intent to do "international law..." You just have to be a troll - its just too perfect. I mean, you're even pretending to me too dense to know that no one keeps merit scholarships at dumps like Hofstra... Its just too perfect...

You're not really living up to your username here, dude. Besides, if OP were a flame, she'd be ignoring the advice people are giving her, and she's not.

[Meowaka]

Keep in mind, jobs where you "move around the world practicing law" are vanishingly rare. A US law degree teaches you how to practice US law, and there is no roving caravan of international lawyers to join. If a company has a question about how a certain German law is going to impact their overseas operation, they don't consult an "international" US attorney with his high school German. They just ask a German lawyer.

That's kind of why I thought that AUWCL/dual degree, where I'd have to basically be fluent in French to start with, would be an idea. I was wrong, apparently. A few months ago, my firm did send out a message asking if anyone knew German because they were consulting a German attorney and needed to communicate... not really relevant, but I thought it was interesting.

Maybe if you spoke a foreign language with native fluency and had a T14 degree, you might be able to find an overseas job. Just keep in mind that what you say you want to do is really, really, really, really unlikely. If you want a job that involves a lot of overseas travel, maybe you should look at something else entirely.

I get what you're saying. My husband and I talked last night. I know I want to practice law in some form. I think it's a good career choice for me, and I am willing to do what it takes to have a chance at something great for the both of us. But since I work full time, I am thinking that maybe the best option for us, even if the 'practice law here and maybe overseas' thing was an unrealistic pipe dream, is that I quit my job and dedicate more time to studying for the LSAT a month out of the June test, and applying in the upcoming spring semester. I know I am better than a 155, but I'm also trying to weigh my options. If I quit my job (and I would be happy to, this place is awful for staff), I have to put that on future applications too. Is there any strategic benefit to this option? How would the Admissions committees see that on paper? If I were to take it again, what is the best/most realistic option for me: Quit work a month out and study efficiently, or stay in this job and continue trying to find the time?

Also, be very wary of boomer attorneys giving you advice, especially about choosing a school and the LSAT. I'm sure they mean well, but they graduated into a totally different job market and likely have no idea what it would be like for you coming out of Howard/Hofstra.

Right. That makes sense. I want to practice law, I really do. I feel like it is a fantastic vocation with lots of hard work available (certainly better than this current job which is making me crazy with how extremely dull it is) that I would be great at if I could get off on the right foot. Maybe I need to change the way that I've been doing things. so I'll start getting into this forum more so I have a chance at understanding what it is I really want from this whole thing. I did get one piece of advice from that one lawyer I talked to, "It's never too late to change your mind until you're there, you don't have to go to law school." Maybe that's true, but I do want law, whether or not I have to change my goals or my decision making process to make this happen. I heard that law opens a lot of doors, but it can close a lot of opportunity too. I wasn't afraid of that, and I think I'm capable of getting into a T20 school if I can put the hours in to work on the LSAT.

[TheSpanishMain]

Is the best/most realistic option for me: Quit work a month out and study efficiently, or stay in this job and continue trying to find the time?

Appropriately prepping for the LSAT takes way more than a month. Think, like, six months at least of studying in the evenings/free time. Don't quit your job. Just study for an hour each night, and a few hours during the weekend. Print off some practice questions and drill those at work when things are slow. The LSAT is a long game. Don't think you must take it in June if you're not ready.

[Meowaka]

Shameless marketing.

1) Go to a T14 website. Browse the number of clinics, the number of externships available for students. Having gone to a T14 myself, those schools have a lot more money to spend on things like clinics or externships.

2) If you want to seek work outside of the school's clinical or externship offerings, then it's better to go to a school in an urban area, whether T14 or non-T14. There are more organizations or firms that are willing to bring on paid or unpaid help. But one great thing about going to a top school was that the grade curve was much easier. There was no pressure to maintain a certain GPA to keep my scholarship, and once 1L was over most people took class a lot easier. So it was totally okay to blow off school once in awhile for a part-time job.

3) The track record of practice-ready programs in getting people work is not good. The best data we have is from Washington and Lee, and their program has not seen any bump in hiring prospects (http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... ritt-.html). Job rates are only going to pick up in a few years when the smaller class sizes hit the market.

The truth is it doesn't really matter. There are firms that do international arbitration and international mergers. They are the huge mega-firms that hire you after your first year based primarily on the rank of your school and your 1L grades. One of those things is within your control right now.

Thank you so much, timbs. Honestly, I hadn't talked with anyone that mentioned getting hired as a first year student. Even the few people I know who attended a T14. One did a clerkship post graduation. I thought I was doing great research by talking with attorneys at various levels and people who have JDs and even do different vocations. So I think I'm starting to get more of a sense of what's actually happening in the current world of law. I just need a new game plan, and probably a new thread.

I really do appreciate the much needed advice and help. I know what I want, but getting there, and how to get there, are things I've tried to do mostly by myself and without much helpful advice until now.

[Mullens]

Other people can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there are any schools worth attending that allow students to start in the spring. Because of this you will probably have to sit out a full cycle and are probably better served retaking the LSAT in September to give yourself more time to prepare.

[timbs4339]

Shameless marketing.

1) Go to a T14 website. Browse the number of clinics, the number of externships available for students. Having gone to a T14 myself, those schools have a lot more money to spend on things like clinics or externships.

2) If you want to seek work outside of the school's clinical or externship offerings, then it's better to go to a school in an urban area, whether T14 or non-T14. There are more organizations or firms that are willing to bring on paid or unpaid help. But one great thing about going to a top school was that the grade curve was much easier. There was no pressure to maintain a certain GPA to keep my scholarship, and once 1L was over most people took class a lot easier. So it was totally okay to blow off school once in awhile for a part-time job.

3) The track record of practice-ready programs in getting people work is not good. The best data we have is from Washington and Lee, and their program has not seen any bump in hiring prospects (http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... ritt-.html). Job rates are only going to pick up in a few years when the smaller class sizes hit the market.

The truth is it doesn't really matter. There are firms that do international arbitration and international mergers. They are the huge mega-firms that hire you after your first year based primarily on the rank of your school and your 1L grades. One of those things is within your control right now.

Thank you so much, timbs. Honestly, I hadn't talked with anyone that mentioned getting hired as a first year student. Even the few people I know who attended a T14. One did a clerkship post graduation. I thought I was doing great research by talking with attorneys at various levels and people who have JDs and even do different vocations. So I think I'm starting to get more of a sense of what's actually happening in the current world of law. I just need a new game plan, and probably a new thread.

I really do appreciate the much needed advice and help. I know what I want, but getting there, and how to get there, are things I've tried to do mostly by myself and without much helpful advice until now.

The way it works is that the firm hires you into their summer associate program after your 1L year. You then spend 2L summer working for the firm and hopefully get an offer during fall of your 3L year.

Now there are a lot of different type of organizations that have different hiring schedules (judges, if they are going to hire law students for clerkships, hire them during spring 2L or fall 3L), but the work it sounds like you want to do will basically require biglaw.

[Meowaka]

Is the best/most realistic option for me: Quit work a month out and study efficiently, or stay in this job and continue trying to find the time?

Appropriately prepping for the LSAT takes way more than a month. Think, like, six months at least of studying in the evenings/free time. Don't quit your job. Just study for an hour each night, and a few hours during the weekend. Print off some practice questions and drill those at work when things are slow. The LSAT is a long game. Don't think you must take it in June if you're not ready.

I tried that before. I initially wanted to take it last December, so I started studying in October with Kaplan, got scared that I wouldn't do well, so I changed the date to the February exam. I took most of the month of December off studying, and picked it up again in January. I worked really hard in November and January. Maybe the break was a mistake, but I needed the break at the time, I didn't have any time off of work because my Dad's stroke earlier last year ate up my time off.

Basically, I already have a "start" let's say, on how the LSAT works. On practice tests, I was scoring 160s, which wasn't great, but a sight better than what I actually scored on the test. On practice work that I did at any available moment, I was making nearly perfect results. The way I tried it last time apparently didn't work out for me so well, so that's why I was considering taking the time to really hammer it home without the baggage of this terrible job on my back. BUT, that doesn't look great either, does it.

I can't keep my husband waiting forever, and we're here because I wanted law school so much. He's from New Zealand, and he's stuck in a crappy job in the US just so I can go to school. At this point I really can't disappoint anyone. The best way of doing that, as has been pointed out, is taking the test again.

[Meowaka]

Other people can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there are any schools worth attending that allow students to start in the spring. Because of this you will probably have to sit out a full cycle and are probably better served retaking the LSAT in September to give yourself more time to prepare.

Right. That's not impossible for us, we can make that work. So by sitting out a full cycle, does that entail pulling out any pending applications with a nice "thanks but I'm not ready yet, sorry to waste your time" letter? God, I can't imagine how stupid I look to all of you, and how I look to the people evaluating me currently.

I really am not an idiot. I made a mistake. I just need to know the best way to salvage this situation. From what I'm hearing from you all, it's not too late, as long as I manage to boss the next LSAT.