Vandy (20k) vs. UMN (full) Forum

[nospecialsymbols]

WL at UVA, Hold at NW, Preferred WL at Gtown. I still have some apps that have yet to come in.

LSAT is 174; I'm a low GPA splitter and my grades trended downward.

I don't want to work in biglaw. Nobody I know who works in biglaw is happy, and I think I'd be even less happy. I'd like to get a clerkship, and I'd like to preserve the option of working somewhere that's not Minneapolis, although I like Minneapolis a lot and would be fine with staying there.

My thought process is that it probably makes sense to just take the full ride. I am confident/optimistic/narcissistic/naive that I can be in the top 10-20% at either Vandy or UMN. If not, so be it. (And if not, then I'm better off with less debt.)

Reiterating that I have no interest in biglaw, would it make sense to pay sticker at, say, NYU or Penn or Duke if they take me, or at UVA/NW/Gtown if they take me off the waitlist? My thought process is that I might be best suited to take the money and run (or take the money and gun) at Minnesota.

I'm more than open to being disabused of any of these notions.

[rad lulz]

Well if not big law what job do you actually want

Clerking is a temp job

[BigZuck]

You want a clerkship? Very unlikely, to the point that it shouldn't be a consideration.

Also, you almost certainly won't finish at the top of your class.

You don't want big law? What do you want?

Given what you presented, I just wouldn't go to law school. But I am more than open to being disabused of that notion if you can explain what you want to do with a JD.

[nospecialsymbols]

You want a clerkship? Very unlikely, to the point that it shouldn't be a consideration.

Also, you almost certainly won't finish at the top of your class.

You don't want big law? What do you want?

Given what you presented, I just wouldn't go to law school. But I am more than open to being disabused of that notion if you can explain what you want to do with a JD.

Work as a lawyer? Government, midsize or small firm would be fine.

Why is biglaw the only meaningful legal career?

[worldtraveler]

You want a clerkship? Very unlikely, to the point that it shouldn't be a consideration.

Also, you almost certainly won't finish at the top of your class.

You don't want big law? What do you want?

Given what you presented, I just wouldn't go to law school. But I am more than open to being disabused of that notion if you can explain what you want to do with a JD.

Work as a lawyer? Government, midsize or small firm would be fine.

Why is biglaw the only meaningful legal career?

Why do you want to be a lawyer?

[Mack.Hambleton]

if you're from minnesota and want to work there, then take minnesota.

if you want to work in the south and don't want big law, It would probably be better to go to a state flagship for free or somewhere a little more flexible for free like emory.

You'll have to be at the top of your class to get clerkships at any of these schools, so that shouldn't factor into your decision making.

It sounds like you just applied to schools in the 15-25 range just because they're ranked that high, even though they're all regional. Try to narrow down what kind of job you want and where you want to work.

[BigZuck]

You want a clerkship? Very unlikely, to the point that it shouldn't be a consideration.

Also, you almost certainly won't finish at the top of your class.

You don't want big law? What do you want?

Given what you presented, I just wouldn't go to law school. But I am more than open to being disabused of that notion if you can explain what you want to do with a JD.

Work as a lawyer? Government, midsize or small firm would be fine.

Why is biglaw the only meaningful legal career?

It's not.

If you want local gov/small firm then go to your local flagship on a full ride.

[nospecialsymbols]

For what it's worth, I do want to live in Minneapolis. I'm not entirely sure that I want to live there forever, which is why the regional nature of UMN scares me a bit. I applied to Vandy because they gave me a fee waiver and have solid clerkship numbers.

With clerkships, while I'd like prestigious clerkships (and why not), I'd be fine with state or even local clerkships. I think it's a job I would like. (And yes, I know it's a temp job.) If my grades aren't good enough to get one, so be it.

I guess the hidden questions that I really wanted feedback on are (1) should I be scared of UMN's job numbers if I don't care about biglaw and (2) is it worth paying sticker at 6-14 type schools if I don't want biglaw?

[BigZuck]

For what it's worth, I do want to live in Minneapolis. I'm not entirely sure that I want to live there forever, which is why the regional nature of UMN scares me a bit. I applied to Vandy because they gave me a fee waiver and have solid clerkship numbers.

With clerkships, while I'd like prestigious clerkships (and why not), I'd be fine with state or even local clerkships. I think it's a job I would like. (And yes, I know it's a temp job.) If my grades aren't good enough to get one, so be it.

I guess the hidden questions that I really wanted feedback on are (1) should I be scared of UMN's job numbers if I don't care about biglaw and (2) is it worth paying sticker at 6-14 type schools if I don't want biglaw?

I'd say probably not and probably not.

If Minnesota is your local flagship and its free just do that. If you want to move somewhere else in 15 years or whatever just cross that bridge when you get to it. At that point it will be a lot more about your work/practice than the fact that you went to Vandy, IMO.

[Jchance]

(2) is it worth paying sticker at 6-14 type schools if I don't want biglaw?

How are you going to pay back your 200k+ debt that comes with sticker if you don't want big law? It seems like you want to pay more for options that you may or may not use without thinking about how to pay for it. I'd take Minn. if I was you.

[nospecialsymbols]

(2) is it worth paying sticker at 6-14 type schools if I don't want biglaw?

How are you going to pay back your 200k+ debt that comes with sticker if you don't want big law? It seems like you want to pay more for options that you may or may not use without thinking about how to pay for it. I'd take Minn. if I was you.

Well, LRAP if I do government/PI work, assuming LRAP still exists in three years.

I'd also consider, if I got a clerkship and it led to offers at big firms, doing that for a while to cover my debt.

Also, to be entirely clear, I'd be moving to Minnesota, but I love the midwest and would be perfectly happy to settle there.

[BigZuck]

(2) is it worth paying sticker at 6-14 type schools if I don't want biglaw?

How are you going to pay back your 200k+ debt that comes with sticker if you don't want big law? It seems like you want to pay more for options that you may or may not use without thinking about how to pay for it. I'd take Minn. if I was you.

Well, LRAP if I do government/PI work, assuming LRAP still exists in three years.

I'd also consider, if I got a clerkship and it led to offers at big firms, doing that for a while to cover my debt.

Also, to be entirely clear, I'd be moving to Minnesota, but I love the midwest and would be perfectly happy to settle there.

Ugh. So Minnesota is not your local flagship then.

I don't understand the fascination with a clerkship. But regardless, that ship has sailed. The only schools that place well into clerkships are precluded due to your GPA. So forget about a clerkship.

As long as your goals are modest (DA/PD, small firms, etc.) go to your local flagship for cheap. Failing that, go to a flagship in a place you want to live long term for cheap (although I'd be leery of trying to get work in a place when you don't have ties but it is possible).

[nospecialsymbols]

I think that this has been helpful and shored up the questions I have.

I'm not interested in staying where I am; I'm interested in moving. So local ties are a nonstarter for me. I'd prefer to have a greater geographic range of options than UMN is likely to provide, but I don't think that's worth the debt at Vandy (or somewhere else higher ranked). I wouldn't want to go to a t14 and feel like biglaw is my only real option for getting rid of the debt.

I do want to practice law, but if it turns out that I hate it, or that my grades suck or whatever else, I'd rather face that reality without much debt.

Thanks, guys.

[transferror]

I'm more than open to being disabused of any of these notions.

If you're open to abuse, I don't get your beef with biglaw.

Good luck at UMN

[McAvoy]

I'm not in too different of a spot than you, OP. I'm not interested in biglaw and I think I could have a fulfilling, happy career in local government or small law, but I have no interest in attending my local flagship and I'm shut out from the prospect for huge scholarships because of my GPA. It's kind of a hard spot.

If you're not concerned with having a prestigious career, to follow your dreams! for free, to a reputable school, to a place you'd like to live -- there are much worse things you could do. Minnesota wouldn't be a choice you'd seriously regret.

If you are concerned with prestige and having an illustrious career (like the fed. clerkship talk), there is a big disconnect with your numbers/options/goals. You're probably not going to get a reasonable scholarship at any seriously prestigious schools, and doing sticker is kind of silly by itself -- it's insane if you don't want biglaw at all, particularly because we have to operate with the assumption that there is no PSLF. Even Vandy is too expensive for your goals.

tldr: If you have a high opportunity cost to attend school (ie good, fulfilling career prospects outside of law), then I'd seriously reconsider your desire to attend law school. If you do not, I'd say to take the money and head north. Good luck!

[BigZuck]

I think that this has been helpful and shored up the questions I have.

I'm not interested in staying where I am; I'm interested in moving. So local ties are a nonstarter for me. I'd prefer to have a greater geographic range of options than UMN is likely to provide, but I don't think that's worth the debt at Vandy (or somewhere else higher ranked). I wouldn't want to go to a t14 and feel like biglaw is my only real option for getting rid of the debt.

I do want to practice law, but if it turns out that I hate it, or that my grades suck or whatever else, I'd rather face that reality without much debt.

Thanks, guys.

Fair enough, I would go to UMN in your shoes then. One thing you have to keep in mind is that beggars can't be choosers- having tons of geographic mobility, clerkship opportunities, low debt, etc. is all wonderful but realistically the vast majority of applicants can't have all that, and especially not if they are splitters.

But limiting debt and having a decent shot at getting a lawyer job in city you would be happy with? That's a pretty solid spot to be in. Good luck duder.