NYU v GULC v BC v BU Forum

jeecuz · Post by **jeecuz** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:53 am

I am originally from MA, interested in practicing in MA, possibly NYC. I would like to experience Big Law, but I'm not 100% sure of committing myself to it for 10+ years to pay off a quarter mil in loans...I'm a woman who wants to see my future children, an issue that to my surprise doesn't seem to pop up much on these forums. In-house is an appealing option, but I'm not sure how difficult that is to get without putting in some time in Big Law.

The options are:

NYU at sticker price

GULC- not yet sure of scholarship

BU or BC with $28,000/year scholarship

I would really appreciate any advice that could help me make a decision!

loomstate · Post by **loomstate** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:55 am

jeecuz wrote:I am originally from MA, interested in practicing in MA, possibly NYC. I would like to experience Big Law, but I'm not 100% sure of committing myself to it for 10+ years to pay off a quarter mil in loans...I'm a woman who wants to see my future children, an issue that to my surprise doesn't seem to pop up much on these forums. In-house is an appealing option, but I'm not sure how difficult that is to get without putting in some time in Big Law.

The options are:

NYU at sticker price

GULC- not yet sure of scholarship

BU or BC with $28,000/year scholarship

I would really appreciate any advice that could help me make a decision!

what are your numbers? possible to retake LSAT?

jeecuz · Post by **jeecuz** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:58 am

167 LSAT, 3.64 gpa

jeecuz · Post by **jeecuz** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:59 am

and not retaking the LSAT

EnormousCheese · Post by **EnormousCheese** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:47 pm

Some people will debate the merits of CCN at sticker. At the end of the day. NYU is a T6 with substantial Big Law placement power. It will open more doors for you than these other schools in virtually every area of law. I appreciate your hesitation to spend 5-10 years working like a maniac in order to pay off massive loans, but Georgetown (assuming sticker) will leave you in a substantially worse position, and BC/BU will lighten your debt load but probably preclude you from high paying legal employment.

You seem hesitant about long work hours. If you value leisure more than income, BU/BC might make more sense, assuming you don't mind doing mid-law for half of what you'd earn as a Big Law associate.

Also, your LSAT/GPA combo is pretty low for NYU. Are you a URM? If so, you should be able to get some kind of aid from CCN and GULC. If so, that changes everything.

cotiger · Post by **cotiger** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:52 pm

People who advocate going 300k in debt really love talking about doors for whatever reason.

Otunga · Post by **Otunga** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:50 pm

EnormousCheese wrote:You seem hesitant about long work hours. If you value leisure more than income, BU/BC might make more sense, assuming you don't mind doing mid-law for half of what you'd earn as a Big Law associate.

I don't believe earning 80k at midlaw is a reasonable scenario from those schools.

Pneumonia · Post by **Pneumonia** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:54 pm

None of these are great options, but I for one would take 300k from NYU over 200k from BC/BU.

edit- did you apply for need-based aid at NYU? some are speculating that it has been a greater factor in $$ decisions this year than in the past.

cotiger · Post by **cotiger** » Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:01 pm

Where else did you apply?

jeecuz · Post by **jeecuz** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:13 am

Thank you all for your replies!

Some additional information:

I don't plan on applying for need-based aid, as I won't be eligible considering my parent's financial situation. That said, my parents are willing to contribute up to $75,000 to my legal education, and the rest will be covered by loans and the bit of money that I have saved.

I would be taking out about $150k in loans (plus accrued interest) for NYU vs. probably $0 loans from BC or BU because I could live at home and have scholarship offers. So it isn't, as Pneumonia suggested, 300k from NYU vs. 200k from BC/BU. No word yet on scholarship from Georgetown, although I should be hearing sometime this week.

I certainly don't have a problem working long hours for the first 5 years, but once I have a family, I would rather not be putting in 2500 hour months. My impression (which may be wrong) is that this is possible working as in-house counsel.

I'm also not sure what Otunga means...do you think it is unreasonable to expect to earn $80k at midlaw from BU/BC? At least for the class of 2013 at BC, even the 25th percentile employed at firms with 26+ lawyers were earning at least $80k.

I'm struggling with the fact that a lot of posters of TLS suggest top 14 or bust, but there seems to be merit in going to a school in the market that I would like to practice in and saving some money.

mraemorris · Post by **mraemorris** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:30 am

jeecuz wrote:Thank you all for your replies!

Some additional information:

I don't plan on applying for need-based aid, as I won't be eligible considering my parent's financial situation. That said, my parents are willing to contribute up to $75,000 to my legal education, and the rest will be covered by loans and the bit of money that I have saved.

I would be taking out about $150k in loans (plus accrued interest) for NYU vs. probably $0 loans from BC or BU because I could live at home and have scholarship offers. So it isn't, as Pneumonia suggested, 300k from NYU vs. 200k from BC/BU. No word yet on scholarship from Georgetown, although I should be hearing sometime this week.

I certainly don't have a problem working long hours for the first 5 years, but once I have a family, I would rather not be putting in 2500 hour months. My impression (which may be wrong) is that this is possible working as in-house counsel.

I'm also not sure what Otunga means...do you think it is unreasonable to expect to earn $80k at midlaw from BU/BC? At least for the class of 2013 at BC, even the 25th percentile employed at firms with 26+ lawyers were earning at least $80k.

I'm struggling with the fact that a lot of posters of TLS suggest top 14 or bust, but there seems to be merit in going to a school in the market that I would like to practice in and saving some money.

I don't know what Otunga is talking about, either, but it sounds like you're at least on the right track with how you're trying to make a decision. Since you know your market, it seems like NYU, BC, and BU would all be great choices - you just have to pick which one's right for you. I love NYU's campus - the neighborhood is just really vibrant, and NYU would be a great choice for working in the NYC market. One difference you might want to ask about is at NYU you might be able to take externships/positions during the year with NYC firms, which might lead to additional offers. However, if you work hard at BC/BU, you can do the same thing with summer NYC positions. Living in NYC might give you a slight edge, but not an insurmountable one.

I'm actually going to be going to GULC in the evening program, and I love the school - but if they don't give you a scholarship, I don't see why GULC would be a better choice than the others. Good luck, and I'm sure you'll figure out which one's right for you. If you have a specialty in mind, that might help as well.

runinthefront · Post by **runinthefront** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:56 am

unodostres · Post by **unodostres** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:16 am

Lol at doors. 300k in NYC is no joke.retake.

banjo · Post by **banjo** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:25 am

jeecuz wrote:I'm struggling with the fact that a lot of posters of TLS suggest top 14 or bust, but there seems to be merit in going to a school in the market that I would like to practice in and saving some money.

You should check out LST's new tool: http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/nyu/bc/bu/

I don't think the common TLS advice is absurd in light of that data. I also think there's good reason to retake--five points could get you a lot of money. That said, because you have family money, I think it's justifiable to go if you don't increase your score in June.

Otunga · Post by **Otunga** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:25 am

jeecuz wrote:Thank you all for your replies!

Some additional information:

I don't plan on applying for need-based aid, as I won't be eligible considering my parent's financial situation. That said, my parents are willing to contribute up to $75,000 to my legal education, and the rest will be covered by loans and the bit of money that I have saved.

I would be taking out about $150k in loans (plus accrued interest) for NYU vs. probably $0 loans from BC or BU because I could live at home and have scholarship offers. So it isn't, as Pneumonia suggested, 300k from NYU vs. 200k from BC/BU. No word yet on scholarship from Georgetown, although I should be hearing sometime this week.

I certainly don't have a problem working long hours for the first 5 years, but once I have a family, I would rather not be putting in 2500 hour months. My impression (which may be wrong) is that this is possible working as in-house counsel.

I'm also not sure what Otunga means...do you think it is unreasonable to expect to earn $80k at midlaw from BU/BC? At least for the class of 2013 at BC, even the 25th percentile employed at firms with 26+ lawyers were earning at least $80k.

I'm struggling with the fact that a lot of posters of TLS suggest top 14 or bust, but there seems to be merit in going to a school in the market that I would like to practice in and saving some money.

Midlaw is there, and attainable, but without biglaw, I'd count on getting a 60k paying job or less if I'm a part of the 2/3 of the class that obtains something. The 2012 ABA data shows at BC 14/109 grads have jobs with firms of 26-100. Maybe there are 2-25 firms that offer relatively high salaries, but I wouldn't believe they're the norm. (2013 data is out today at some point.)

That said, if you want a Massachusetts firm, BC at minimal debt is a solid choice.

jbagelboy · Post by **jbagelboy** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:49 am

You got into NYU with 167/3.64? I'm quite surprised and impressed. Are they predicting a shitty yield this year?

You appear to be stuck between what you know the correct choice for your career and future family may be (re-taking the LSAT) and a whole lot of debt. I'd reconsider your hesitation to sit for the test again, or face regionally-oriented, low profile career prospects.

If BU and BC are each offering $28k, try to play them off each other. With generous $75k family money you are looking at pretty light debt at whichever comes out cheaper. That's my second vote.

BigZuck · Post by **BigZuck** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:52 am

Retake silly

objctnyrhnr · Post by **objctnyrhnr** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:08 pm

jbagelboy wrote:You got into NYU with 167/3.64? I'm quite surprised and impressed. Are they predicting a shitty yield this year?

You appear to be stuck between what you know the correct choice for your career and future family may be (re-taking the LSAT) and a whole lot of debt. I'd reconsider your hesitation to sit for the test again, or face regionally-oriented, low profile career prospects.

If BU and BC are each offering $28k, try to play them off each other. With generous $75k family money you are looking at pretty light debt at whichever comes out cheaper. That's my second vote.

Based on those numbers, it seems that you are having quite the cycle. Out of curiosity -- do you have any amazing softs?

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