Update: New $$). Should I retake & reapply? Forum

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Catherinelo365

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Update: New $$). Should I retake & reapply?

Post by Catherinelo365 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:07 am

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Last edited by Catherinelo365 on Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:10 pm, edited 27 times in total.

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cotiger

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I retake & reapply?

Post by cotiger » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:19 am

Please don't go $300,000 in debt with a 172/3.85

El Principe

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I retake & reapply?

Post by El Principe » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:26 am

I mean, could an average letter really really be that bad to keep you out of those schools with those numbers? You sure a LOR writer didn't sabotage you or something?

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I retake & reapply?

Post by checkin2014 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:32 am

Sorry to hear this.
I got similar results but my numbers are way below yours. I can only guess it's the KJD thing.
Definitely work on your PS and have some WE this gap year (something you can talk about as WE, anything).
Best of luck with retaking, I am doing the same thing.

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Catherinelo365

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I retake & reapply?

Post by Catherinelo365 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:49 am

El Principe wrote:I mean, could an average letter really really be that bad to keep you out of those schools with those numbers? You sure a LOR writer didn't sabotage you or something?
Yes I think letters shouldn't have so much power either...
Maybe it was something else that destroyed my applications...?

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jbagelboy

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I retake & reapply?

Post by jbagelboy » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:25 am

Jesus. Yea this isn't right. As a comparison, last year I had 172/3.7x, and was admitted w/ $$ to every school on your list that I applied to except a WL at Stanford.

I think if NYU came through with $75K+, that could be your cycle. Otherwise, getting off the WL at Chicago w/ $$ (which happens a lot) would also be a good option here. After tanking your JS1 H seems unlikely.

I don't even see retaking as the dispositive feature here.. A 172 can already do wonders (see above). You need to rebrand. Get better LoRs, more work experience, develop a more compelling narrative.

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I retake & reapply?

Post by hichvichwoh » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:31 am

jbagelboy wrote:Jesus. Yea this isn't right. As a comparison, last year I had 172/3.7x, and was admitted w/ $$ to every school on your list that I applied to except a WL at Stanford.

I think if NYU came through with $75K+, that could be your cycle. Otherwise, getting off the WL at Chicago w/ $$ (which happens a lot) would also be a good option here. After tanking your JS1 H seems unlikely.

I don't even see retaking as the dispositive feature here.. A 172 can already do wonders (see above). You need to rebrand. Get better LoRs, more work experience, develop a more compelling narrative.
can this be done in a year?

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cotiger

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I retake & reapply?

Post by cotiger » Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:36 am

hichvichwoh wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Jesus. Yea this isn't right. As a comparison, last year I had 172/3.7x, and was admitted w/ $$ to every school on your list that I applied to except a WL at Stanford.

I think if NYU came through with $75K+, that could be your cycle. Otherwise, getting off the WL at Chicago w/ $$ (which happens a lot) would also be a good option here. After tanking your JS1 H seems unlikely.

I don't even see retaking as the dispositive feature here.. A 172 can already do wonders (see above). You need to rebrand. Get better LoRs, more work experience, develop a more compelling narrative.
can this be done in a year?
His major advisor was MIA, he'll get WE as a matter of course, and hopefully OP has more than one way to explain who he is and what drives him. So yeah, pretty certainly.

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Synch

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I retake & reapply?

Post by Synch » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:18 am

Sorry to hear this OP. For what it's worth - I have the same LSAT, and a GPA almost a full 2 tenths below yours. I would definitely take a year off, get some WE, and reapply. With a better LOR, and some targeted Why essays, I think you'd avoid all those WL's.

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I retake & reapply?

Post by Tiago Splitter » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:20 am

cotiger wrote:
hichvichwoh wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Jesus. Yea this isn't right. As a comparison, last year I had 172/3.7x, and was admitted w/ $$ to every school on your list that I applied to except a WL at Stanford.

I think if NYU came through with $75K+, that could be your cycle. Otherwise, getting off the WL at Chicago w/ $$ (which happens a lot) would also be a good option here. After tanking your JS1 H seems unlikely.

I don't even see retaking as the dispositive feature here.. A 172 can already do wonders (see above). You need to rebrand. Get better LoRs, more work experience, develop a more compelling narrative.
can this be done in a year?
His major advisor was MIA, he'll get WE as a matter of course, and hopefully OP has more than one way to explain who he is and what drives him. So yeah, pretty certainly.
OP should retake if he thinks he can score higher. But that means consistently approaching 180 on PT's. In the meantime, work on those LOCI's.

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I retake & reapply?

Post by jimbeam21 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:59 am

Do you have other options next year? A job offer you can fall back on? I'd say take a year or two off, do something INTERESTING, and reapply in a couple of years. And by interesting, I don't mean taking a crappy paralegal job or another 9-5 that has little to no relevance to law school. Go do peace corps or tfa or work for a labor union or something. Or join a start up or get a consulting gig and build some useful and unique skills. W/O some sort of cool work experience next year, I can't see how your application would be any more compelling next cycle.

During this time, study for the LSAT and retake. If you consistently study for 6 months I can't see any reason why you can't get a 175+. With your GPA, 172 is borderline for Harvard/Chicago/Columbia. With a 175+ they'll have a harder time rejecting you and it will open you up to getting $$.

And it seems like it was your interviewing skills that sank you. If you got interviews at Harvard Chicago and Columbia, your interview should have simply sealed things, not gotten you waitlisted. I'm guessing you don't have a lot of experience interviewing coming straight from undergrad. I think going through the job search process will help immensely- I know it did for me.

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Catherinelo365

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I Good luck! Follow your dreams! & reapply

Post by Catherinelo365 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:58 am

jimbeam21 wrote:Do you have other options next year? A job offer you can fall back on? I'd say take a year or two off, do something INTERESTING, and reapply in a couple of years. And by interesting, I don't mean taking a crappy paralegal job or another 9-5 that has little to no relevance to law school. Go do peace corps or tfa or work for a labor union or something. Or join a start up or get a consulting gig and build some useful and unique skills. W/O some sort of cool work experience next year, I can't see how your application would be any more compelling next cycle.

During this time, study for the LSAT and Good luck! Follow your dreams!. If you consistently study for 6 months I can't see any reason why you can't get a 175+. With your GPA, 172 is borderline for Harvard/Chicago/Columbia. With a 175+ they'll have a harder time rejecting you and it will open you up to getting $$.

And it seems like it was your interviewing skills that sank you. If you got interviews at Harvard Chicago and Columbia, your interview should have simply sealed things, not gotten you waitlisted. I'm guessing you don't have a lot of experience interviewing coming straight from undergrad. I think going through the job search process will help immensely- I know it did for me.
Thank you for the advice! Don't have options yet but I'm looking for jobs/volunteering. My interviewing skill definitely is one of my weaknesses. :(

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I Good luck! Follow your dreams! & reapply

Post by Tuxedo » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:15 am

jimbeam21 wrote:I'm guessing you don't have a lot of experience interviewing coming straight from undergrad. I think going through the job search process will help immensely- I know it did for me.
OP, I'm a 0L that will be retaking and reapplying for the 2014-2015 cycle so my opinion isn't the most valid here, but I totally agree with the above. I will have 8 years after undergrad by that time, and I've never been more convinced about the importance of work experience for some of these issues.

And it's not just a question of doing well on your H interviews—it's about doing well at OCI and all of the other kinds of formal and informal ways that professors, peers, and potential employers will evaluate you. There are questions in every interview that get at what you've learned from your experience and how that process has made you a more viable candidate. Going into any kind of professional school without honest (i.e. non-bullshit) answers to these questions seems really risky to me, having been out of school for a while.

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I Good luck! Follow your dreams! & reapply

Post by love4life29 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:20 am

jimbeam21 wrote:Do you have other options next year? A job offer you can fall back on? I'd say take a year or two off, do something INTERESTING, and reapply in a couple of years. And by interesting, I don't mean taking a crappy paralegal job or another 9-5 that has little to no relevance to law school. Go do peace corps or tfa or work for a labor union or something. Or join a start up or get a consulting gig and build some useful and unique skills. W/O some sort of cool work experience next year, I can't see how your application would be any more compelling next cycle.

During this time, study for the LSAT and Good luck! Follow your dreams!. If you consistently study for 6 months I can't see any reason why you can't get a 175+. With your GPA, 172 is borderline for Harvard/Chicago/Columbia. With a 175+ they'll have a harder time rejecting you and it will open you up to getting $$.

And it seems like it was your interviewing skills that sank you. If you got interviews at Harvard Chicago and Columbia, your interview should have simply sealed things, not gotten you waitlisted. I'm guessing you don't have a lot of experience interviewing coming straight from undergrad. I think going through the job search process will help immensely- I know it did for me.

I agree with this! I had almost identical #s to yours and got in everywhere so far (Haven't heard from S, didn't apply to Y.) Work exp can help you out a lot.

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lawschool22

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I Good luck! Follow your dreams! & reapply

Post by lawschool22 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:23 am

You need a 4th option, which is get WE and don't worry about re-taking, unless you are consistently scoring 180 on PT's. Getting higher than a 172 starts to become a crapshoot. I mean, you can re-take if you want, but this isn't the typical "you should definitely retake" situation. The issue here is something else. I think that something is WE, and *maybe* sub-par LORS. But I don't think weak LORs would be enough to derail a cycle like this.

You definitely had a sub-optimal cycle given your numbers. It might not be a horrible idea to hire Spivey, since I'm wondering if there isn't something else off in your PS, resume, etc. At least post your PS and have some other people read it, so we can see if it was way off base.

But most important would be getting some WE imho.

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Catherinelo365

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I Good luck! Follow your dreams! & reapply

Post by Catherinelo365 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:28 am

lawschool22 wrote:You need a 4th option, which is get WE and don't worry about re-taking, unless you are consistently scoring 180 on PT's. Getting higher than a 172 starts to become a crapshoot. I mean, you can re-take if you want, but this isn't the typical "you should definitely Good luck! Follow your dreams!" situation. The issue here is something else. I think that something is WE, and *maybe* sub-par LORS. But I don't think weak LORs would be enough to derail a cycle like this.

You definitely had a sub-optimal cycle given your numbers. It might not be a horrible idea to hire Spivey, since I'm wondering if there isn't something else off in your PS, resume, etc. At least post your PS and have some other people read it, so we can see if it was way off base.

But most important would be getting some WE imho.
Great advice. Definitely will start looking for jobs (hopefully it's not too late) and post my PS and DS... Maybe my PS is weak because it's not at all related to law? I wrote why I want to go to law school in my DS though...

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I Good luck! Follow your dreams! & reapply

Post by jjking » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:31 am

Just another thought, and I say this with the best intentions - is it possible you could use more interview practice? You got waitlisted at Harvard, Chi and Columbia, all schools that were interested enough to offer you an interview which is usually a pretty good sign. Not saying everything else - LORs, K-JD, etc. didn't play a part, but just something to keep in mind if you're re-applying.

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I Good luck! Follow your dreams! & reapply

Post by ga208 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:37 am

If you can get a decent job for upcoming year - the work experience and new LORs should give you decent chance at Harvard or more money at T6.

If you're confident retaking LSAT would boost your score a few points that would also be a lock (especially combined with work experience).

Also keep in mind that in getting employed out of law school, pre-law school employment is often helpful.

But if money is not such a big issue and you don't want to wait, NYU with good grades can accomplish your objectives and it is of course a great school with great students and faculty.

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I Good luck! Follow your dreams! & reapply

Post by Catherinelo365 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:38 am

jjking wrote:Just another thought, and I say this with the best intentions - is it possible you could use more interview practice? You got waitlisted at Harvard, Chi and Columbia, all schools that were interested enough to offer you an interview which is usually a pretty good sign. Not saying everything else - LORs, K-JD, etc. didn't play a part, but just something to keep in mind if you're re-applying.
Yes... I guess I was doing great during in-person alumni interviews. For Skype interviews facing a screen, I just completely lost my ideas and became stiff.

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I Good luck! Follow your dreams! & reapply

Post by worldtraveler » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:59 am

I'm more concerned with how you're going to pay back private loans with a career in international human rights. You won't have any loan repayment help with that.

If you really want to go into that field anyway, you should get some work experience. K-JDers don't fare well.

Sit out this year, get some work experience, and mature a bit.

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jingosaur

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I Good luck! Follow your dreams! & reapply

Post by jingosaur » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:04 pm

If NYU gives you less that $75k, sit out a cycle. I think that retaking your 172 wouldn't be a bad idea as long as you're scoring consistently above that on practice exams.

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I Good luck! Follow your dreams! & reapply

Post by BankruptMe » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:16 pm

I think 2 years of W.E. will give you something to write about.

Why not apply to Paralegal positions in Big Law firms? You would probably get that. Do that 2- 3years and reapply.

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I Good luck! Follow your dreams! & reapply

Post by jimbeam21 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:32 pm

Tuxedo wrote: And it's not just a question of doing well on your H interviews—it's about doing well at OCI and all of the other kinds of formal and informal ways that professors, peers, and potential employers will evaluate you. There are questions in every interview that get at what you've learned from your experience and how that process has made you a more viable candidate. Going into any kind of professional school without honest (i.e. non-bullshit) answers to these questions seems really risky to me, having been out of school for a while.
Agreed wholeheartedly. For reference, I was dead-set on going KJD a couple of years ago. I sat the June LSAT my junior year, crapped my pants b/c of one bad RC section, and cancelled. In hindsight, after the test was released, I would have scored a 175+, but honestly, cancelling was the best thing to have happened to me.

As a result, I ended up looking for jobs and got a pretty cool consulting gig. Going through the interview process and really thinking about myself, my goals, and what motivates me helped me tremendously when I eventually decided to retake and apply to law school. I grew tremendously over the last two years, and I think that was reflected in my apps and my interviews this year. Out of the schools I interviewed with, I was accepted at H, Ruby from CHI, and Hamilton from Columbia. With some work experience and a few extra points on the LSAT, I don't see why your cycle can't turn out similarly. Good luck!

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Catherinelo365

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I Good luck! Follow your dreams! & reapply

Post by Catherinelo365 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:33 pm

jimbeam21 wrote:
Tuxedo wrote: And it's not just a question of doing well on your H interviews—it's about doing well at OCI and all of the other kinds of formal and informal ways that professors, peers, and potential employers will evaluate you. There are questions in every interview that get at what you've learned from your experience and how that process has made you a more viable candidate. Going into any kind of professional school without honest (i.e. non-bullshit) answers to these questions seems really risky to me, having been out of school for a while.
Agreed wholeheartedly. For reference, I was dead-set on going KJD a couple of years ago. I sat the June LSAT my junior year, crapped my pants b/c of one bad RC section, and cancelled. In hindsight, after the test was released, I would have scored a 175+, but honestly, cancelling was the best thing to have happened to me.

As a result, I ended up looking for jobs and got a pretty cool consulting gig. Going through the interview process and really thinking about myself, my goals, and what motivates me helped me tremendously when I eventually decided to Good luck! Follow your dreams! and apply to law school. I grew tremendously over the last two years, and I think that was reflected in my apps and my interviews this year. Out of the schools I interviewed with, I was accepted at H, Ruby from CHI, and Hamilton from Columbia. With some work experience and a few extra points on the LSAT, I don't see why your cycle can't turn out similarly. Good luck!
Thank you! This is truly uplifting.

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Re: BAD Cycle. Should I Good luck! Follow your dreams! & reapply

Post by 1278 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:40 pm

Just want to let you know my story: I had 171 last cycle and was wait listed at Stanford (where I really wanted to go). I decided not to go to U Chi or NYU or what ever school I got in with $/$$/$$$ (well I also just had my baby so it was an easy decision). I reapplied this year with a 175. While my GPA obviously didn't change, I was outright rejected.

Don't want to scare you, but strange things happen. A better LSAT is no guarantee for a better chance. Fuck that.

Best of luck to you! Not easy to have an 172 when English is not even your first language, you deserve a lot of credit!

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