To defer or not to defer Forum

[Pancakes12]

I have to make up my mind by May 1st if I'm going to defer HLS for two years. I am a recent graduate now working in an industry that I believe will be looked upon favorably during law school hiring. My biggest concern is the debt. I will have some savings and expect to get some need-based aid. I will have about 20k left in federal student loans from undergrad in two years' time. Also, it maybe shouldn't be a consideration, but I want that Harvard prestige and it's a dream to go to Harvard.

Should I:

a) Defer HLS two years.
b) Apply to schools in two years and take a big scholarship.


-The schools you are considering: HLS. No use considering deferrals at others schools since you can't keep any scholarship you recieve.
-How you will be financing your COA: It will be financed entirely through savings and loans. If I defer two years, I expect to have about 25k saved. I expect to get some need-based aid (not sure how much--my parents have a combined income of about 70k)
-Where you are from and where you want to work: I'd like to end up in BigLaw on the east coast. I'd also take BigLaw in Pittsburgh but I'm not sure if I could afford it with the debt.
-Your general career goals: BigLaw --> Fed Clerkship --> Biglaw --> ?
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers: Above HLS's 75ths.
-How many times you have taken the LSAT: once

[Winston1984]

If you are above Harvard's 75ths, then you have a shot at Ruby/Hamilton. I would definitely take one of those instead with a goal for biglaw. You won't care about the prestige when you get to see all of your check, while your coworkers have $2000+ of theirs going to loan repayment every month.

[PrideandGlory1776]

Agreed go for the Hamilton, Ruby, Vanderbilt. Enjoy a wonderful life thereafter.

[lecsa]

Keep in mind that if you defer COA will probably be at least 60k+ more expensive while salaries aren't going up.

[Pancakes12]

Keep in mind that if you defer COA will probably be at least 60k+ more expensive while salaries aren't going up.

How to you get 60k?

And how do we know salaries won't go up? I think it's unlikely, but do we know?

[lecsa]

.

[dood]

I have to make up my mind by May 1st if I'm going to defer HLS for two years. I am a recent graduate now working in an industry that I believe will be looked upon favorably during law school hiring. My biggest concern is the debt. I will have some savings and expect to get some need-based aid. I will have about 20k left in federal student loans from undergrad in two years' time. Also, it maybe shouldn't be a consideration, but I want that Harvard prestige and it's a dream to go to Harvard.

Should I:

a) Defer HLS two years.
b) Apply to schools in two years and take a big scholarship.


-The schools you are considering: HLS. No use considering deferrals at others schools since you can't keep any scholarship you recieve.
-How you will be financing your COA: It will be financed entirely through savings and loans. If I defer two years, I expect to have about 25k saved. I expect to get some need-based aid (not sure how much--my parents have a combined income of about 70k)
-Where you are from and where you want to work: I'd like to end up in BigLaw on the east coast. I'd also take BigLaw in Pittsburgh but I'm not sure if I could afford it with the debt.
-Your general career goals: BigLaw --> Fed Clerkship --> Biglaw --> ?
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers: Above HLS's 75ths.
-How many times you have taken the LSAT: once

you will need to reapply for need based aid regardless of deferring. your aid doesn't get deferred. so this is what's going to happen:

now - your 2013 tax return says you made $0, and your parents have lo income, and you have more than $20K in loans and $0 savings. you can expect about $20K + /year in need based aid.

2 years - you'll reapply for financial aid (you have to fill out your FAFSA every year, as you probably know already), but your 2015 tax return will say you made $50K (I'm guessing hypotheticallt), you will have paid back student loans and have savings. you can then expect about $0K in need based aid.

happened to me, true story. sucks balls, wish someone told me that financial aid doesn't defer.

[Tiago Splitter]

Harvard will also count any savings you put together against whatever need based aid they were going to give you. So saving money over the next two years doesn't matter. If you're going to go to Harvard, do it this year. But I'd recommend applying for a different T-14 full ride next cycle.

[lecsa]

.

[dood]

I have to make up my mind by May 1st if I'm going to defer HLS for two years. I am a recent graduate now working in an industry that I believe will be looked upon favorably during law school hiring.

what industry and whats your salary? i was an engr and made $100K/year. i regret that for the reasons I stated above and PM'd you about. much better if you just go pwn at harvard and get good grades.

i mean wats your end goal here? i also wasnt sure of lawl school was for me. i wanted to climb the corp ladder a bit and see what happened. you seem to be set on lawl school, so dont do a job just bc you think it'll be favorable during law school hiring. the MOST favorable thing is gonna be that H on your resume and good grades. by far most valuable. no amount of work experience gets you an interview at cravath if you dont have the school/grades.

[Kimikho]

I've been told you can defer scholarships.

ETA: from some schools

[Pancakes12]

I've been told you can defer scholarships.

ETA: from some schools

I've heard this only for NU

[AFP]

I've been told you can defer scholarships.

ETA: from some schools

I've heard this only for NU

I can confirm that scholarships are deferred with UChi as well (though I assume that a Ruby is an exception).

[Pancakes12]

I understand why everyone says to just take a scholarship at another t14, but it's so tough to turn down harvard. Plus there's so much pressure from my friends and gf to attend. They think I'm stupid to consider turning it down.

[dobryden]

I understand why everyone says to just take a scholarship at another t14, but it's so tough to turn down harvard. Plus there's so much pressure from my friends and gf to attend. They think I'm stupid to consider turning it down.

I acknowledge that pressure to take prestige exists, but this is such a large, critically important, and life-changing decision that you absolutely cannot succumb to peer pressure from your friends because "they think you're stupid" to make it.

You're not stupid. You got into Harvard. That ends that argument.

But you would be stupid if you lived your life and made huge financial decisions to gain the approval of your friends. You wouldn't (or at least, shouldn't) go into debt for a yacht or a house because your friends would think you're stupid if you didn't. Why should making this financial investment be any different?

Live your own life.

[Winston1984]

I understand why everyone says to just take a scholarship at another t14, but it's so tough to turn down harvard. Plus there's so much pressure from my friends and gf to attend. They think I'm stupid to consider turning it down.

I acknowledge that pressure to take prestige exists, but this is such a large, critically important, and life-changing decision that you absolutely cannot succumb to peer pressure from your friends because "they think you're stupid" to make it.

You're not stupid. You got into Harvard. That ends that argument.

But you would be stupid if you lived your life and made huge financial decisions to gain the approval of your friends. You wouldn't (or at least, shouldn't) go into debt for a yacht or a house because your friends would think you're stupid if you didn't. Why should making this financial investment be any different?

Live your own life.

In addition to all of this, just say you are too badass for Harvard. Tell your friends you are a peacock and they got to let you fly.

[nebula666]

I highly doubt any of these friends are lawyers.

"Dude, you turned down a free legal education at CCN for near-sticker at Harvard with a goal of Biglaw? Wow, what an idiot!" - nobody who knows anything about legal hiring.

I have a feeling your friends would also tell you to take Harvard over Yale at equal cost.

[Pancakes12]

Does my desire to clerk still not make HLS worth it?

[thewaves]

Also note that it's difficult to defer HLS for 2 years unless there's a real reason (like TFA, peace corps, etc. that tend to run on 2 year terms).

[Pancakes12]

Also note that it's difficult to defer HLS for 2 years unless there's a real reason (like TFA, peace corps, etc. that tend to run on 2 year terms).

HLS's deferral policy is actually extremely liberal. Deferrals are granted so long as they're submitted on time. At ASW, I met a guy who deferred the year prior to literally do nothing but work hourly wage jobs and travel spontaneously.

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

Also note that it's difficult to defer HLS for 2 years unless there's a real reason (like TFA, peace corps, etc. that tend to run on 2 year terms).

HLS's deferral policy is actually extremely liberal. Deferrals are granted so long as they're submitted on time. At ASW, I met a guy who deferred the year prior to literally do nothing but work hourly wage jobs and travel spontaneously.

waves is correct. For 2 year deferrals, my impression was they were not granted unless you were deferring for a defined two-year opportunity (e.g. TFA). I would be surprised if they granted a two year deferral just because someone wanted to work and pay off debt.

[Pancakes12]

Also note that it's difficult to defer HLS for 2 years unless there's a real reason (like TFA, peace corps, etc. that tend to run on 2 year terms).

HLS's deferral policy is actually extremely liberal. Deferrals are granted so long as they're submitted on time. At ASW, I met a guy who deferred the year prior to literally do nothing but work hourly wage jobs and travel spontaneously.

waves is correct. For 2 year deferrals, my impression was they were not granted unless you were deferring for a defined two-year opportunity (e.g. TFA). I would be surprised if they granted a two year deferral just because someone wanted to work and pay off debt.

Again, this is wrong. I was told during my interview that if I get a job then I should defer HLS two years and work since they are starting to value work experiencee more. You could also look at their website. As long as you have defined a two-year time span with some type of activity that isn't insane, it's extremely unlikely to be turned down.

Now, could someone please answer my actual question about the clerkship opportunities and whether HLS would be worth it.

[patogordo]

well harvard places twice as many people in federal clerkships as columbia, so i'd say that's probably worth about $300k.

[banjo]

Clerking is a cool experience, but I'm not really sure how it fits in with your career goals. You might end up on the transactional side, where a clerkship is less clearly useful. It's also not clear how much of an advantage the HYS name gives you in the clerkship application process. I've heard that HLS emphasizes clerkships from day one. My school, OTOH, had a clerkship lunch that conflicted with like five other good lunch talks on the same day, so I didn't go. Different interest levels could account for some of the placement difference.