Chi (90k; 170 COA) or reapply Forum

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Which would you suggest?

Chicago 90k (170k COA)
22
65%
Reapply next cycle
12
35%
 
Total votes: 34

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jbagelboy

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Re: Chi (90k; 150 COA) or reapply

Post by jbagelboy » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:21 pm

drawstring wrote:Thanks for the replies everyone.

My focus was always HYS, but if I couldn't get in there I wanted CCN with as little debt possible at graduation. I'm going to deposit at Chicago, ride the HLS and presumably SLS waitlists for a while, and if there is no action (H/S acceptance or $ increase at Chicago) I'll probably reapply, much more broadly this time. My numbers won't change aside from a negligible GPA drop, but I'll have a bit more WE, a new LOR, and a tighter PS.
Since you want CA big law, not really sure of the purpose of reapplying, unless you have a good job lined up for after graduation from college. You'll get a firm job out of Chicago, and all you're doing is forfeiting a year of income. I am a big fan of reapplying for k-jd's in general, but that's usually when their goals are uncertain, they seem really immature, they have a solid offer from a reputable employer already, or their LSAT sucks. I don't think you fall into any of these categories.

If you are motivated to reapply simply by a desire to go to Harvard, then this whole thing doesn't make all that much sense to me.

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drawstring

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Re: Chi (90k; 150 COA) or reapply

Post by drawstring » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:33 pm

I have a decent job lined up that would help reduce the opportunity cost, and if I get better offers next year (I'll have a lot more leverage due to applying more broadly) I could graduate close to debt free at a non-HYS.

I highly doubt that I'll be paying sticker at HYS due to my parent's financial situation, so it wouldn't be a 90k difference between Chicago and those schools. Chicago is still very much a possibility this cycle though.

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jbagelboy

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Re: Chi (90k; 150 COA) or reapply

Post by jbagelboy » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:36 pm

drawstring wrote:I have a decent job lined up that would help reduce the opportunity cost, and if I get better offers next year (I'll have a lot more leverage due to applying more broadly) I could graduate close to debt free at a non-HYS.

I highly doubt that I'll be paying sticker at HYS due to my parent's financial situation, so it wouldn't be a 90k difference between Chicago and those schools. Chicago is still very much a possibility this cycle though.
Alright. If you have work you're excited about and you have specific areas of your application where you could see improvement, then I'm definitely supportive of reapplying. It's not good to start an experience like 1L without being at least a little excited about it.

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drawstring

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Re: Chi (90k; 150 COA) or reapply

Post by drawstring » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:48 pm

And for what it's worth, with my current Chi offer I'll actually have 170k to pay back accounting for interest.

milkandcheerios

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Re: Chi (90k; 170 COA) or reapply

Post by milkandcheerios » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:15 pm

Hasn't there been some speculation that we've hit the trough of the law school acceptance decline and there's no guarantee that next cycle will be easier/just as easy as this cycle?

Obviously, there's no way to know if this is actually going to happen, but I were you, I don't know if I would risk sitting it out another year. Especially with a lower GPA and identical LSAT score, and an early application this year, I don't see why you would expect to do better next cycle.

I think you really need to ask yourself why you want HLS so badly and how much going there versus Chi will make a difference in your life/career in the long run. Are you just disappointed because you didn't do as well as you thought you could have or as well as TLS/LSN said you could do? I totally sympathize with that because I feel the same way about my cycle but objectively, UChi with 90k is a really good choice.

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Mack.Hambleton

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Re: Chi (90k; 170 COA) or reapply

Post by Mack.Hambleton » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:41 pm

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Last edited by Mack.Hambleton on Tue May 20, 2014 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pulsar

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Re: Chi (90k; 170 COA) or reapply

Post by Pulsar » Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:38 pm

You should think about what went wrong with your cycle before you reapply. You probably had some combination of crappy/boring rec letters and a crappy/boring PS. Just working for another year might not change your results much if the rest of your application remains the same.

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beepboopbeep

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Re: NYU (75k), Chi (90k), Duke (90k) or reapply UPDATE

Post by beepboopbeep » Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:54 pm

aboutmydaylight wrote:Maybe I'm still being naive, but isn't 90k from Chicago about what you'd expect with these numbers? Borderline HYS tends to net around this much and looking at LSN this seems par for the course. I think you underperformed your cycle, but not at Chicago.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
FWIW, I have $75k at Chicago as a waitlist admit with 3.6/173. I would agree with other posters that OP underperformed his numbers - perhaps because of k-jd? If OP is open to retaking for 175+, Ruby is definitely in play. Agreed with bagel on the retake point in general - Chicago places really well in CA and lots of top CA firms come to OCI, so retake isn't automatically TCR as it often is.

That having been said, with a 90k scholarship, 170k COA is very much on the high end of estimates. Especially if you factor in 2L SA it will probably be more like 125k + however much interest capitalizes. It is VERY easy to take out substantially less in loans than Chicago estimates; I'm coming in at about $6k below estimates this year and could've done more.

Theopliske8711

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Re: Chi (90k; 170 COA) or reapply

Post by Theopliske8711 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:28 pm

That having been said, with a 90k scholarship, 170k COA is very much on the high end of estimates. Especially if you factor in 2L SA it will probably be more like 125k + however much interest capitalizes. It is VERY easy to take out substantially less in loans than Chicago estimates; I'm coming in at about $6k below estimates this year and could've done more.
The fact that you and JBagelboy have both stated that you have come under the COA gives me a sigh of relief.

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Jaqen

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Re: Chi (90k; 170 COA) or reapply

Post by Jaqen » Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:13 pm

Last cycle I underperformed with a 172/3.9x. But then I got off the waitlist at H over the summer. Then I got off the waitlist at UChi + 50k/year. Be patient. (I know this is easier said than done.) If you end up with no better offers come August then reapply, this time blanketing the T14.

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drawstring

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Re: Chi (90k; 170 COA) or reapply

Post by drawstring » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:13 am

You should think about what went wrong with your cycle before you reapply. You probably had some combination of crappy/boring rec letters and a crappy/boring PS. Just working for another year might not change your results much if the rest of your application remains the same.
I've been thinking a lot about how to make my PS better, and I have a new (and probably better) LOR lined up if need be.
That having been said, with a 90k scholarship, 170k COA is very much on the high end of estimates. Especially if you factor in 2L SA it will probably be more like 125k + however much interest capitalizes. It is VERY easy to take out substantially less in loans than Chicago estimates; I'm coming in at about $6k below estimates this year and could've done more
I'm getting about 135k at graduation and around 170k after 5 years putting in 30k for the 2L SA. I kept COA at 78k a year though, and I could probably live for cheaper.
Jaqen wrote:Last cycle I underperformed with a 172/3.9x. But then I got off the waitlist at H over the summer. Then I got off the waitlist at UChi + 50k/year. Be patient. (I know this is easier said than done.) If you end up with no better offers come August then reapply, this time blanketing the T14.
Great to hear! I'm hoping for a similar outcome. I've also heard of someone getting a Ruby (unlikely, I know) after a HLS WL acceptance, so I'm hoping my Chi offer still gets bumped at least bit.

Kimikho

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Re: Chi (90k; 170 COA) or reapply

Post by Kimikho » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:27 pm

Draw, are you using LS22's spreadsheets? They are very conservative (in that, he assumes the worst-case scenario). He assumes tuition increases by 4% and that COL increases by 2.5%. I personally think it's better to look at the worse-case scenario, but that could be what is driving up your COA estimates.

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cotiger

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Re: Chi (90k; 170 COA) or reapply

Post by cotiger » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:39 pm

scoobers wrote:Draw, are you using LS22's spreadsheets? They are very conservative (in that, he assumes the worst-case scenario). He assumes tuition increases by 4% and that COL increases by 2.5%. I personally think it's better to look at the worse-case scenario, but that could be what is driving up your COA estimates.
4% is not worst-case scenario. That's actually lower than typical. Last year, Chicago raised tuition+fees by 5.2%. The year before, it raised it 6.3%. Over the last five years, UChi has raised tuition and fees by an average of 4.5%.

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Kimikho

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Re: Chi (90k; 170 COA) or reapply

Post by Kimikho » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:41 pm

cotiger wrote:
scoobers wrote:Draw, are you using LS22's spreadsheets? They are very conservative (in that, he assumes the worst-case scenario). He assumes tuition increases by 4% and that COL increases by 2.5%. I personally think it's better to look at the worse-case scenario, but that could be what is driving up your COA estimates.
4% is not worst-case scenario. That's actually lower than typical. Last year, Chicago raised tuition+fees by 5.2%. The year before, it raised it 6.3%. Over the last five years, UChi has raised tuition and fees by an average of 4.5%.
:shock:

I'll let him know. Wow.

2.5% for COL, for my understanding, is well above inflation increases, though.

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jbagelboy

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Re: Chi (90k; 170 COA) or reapply

Post by jbagelboy » Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:50 pm

scoobers wrote:
cotiger wrote:
scoobers wrote:Draw, are you using LS22's spreadsheets? They are very conservative (in that, he assumes the worst-case scenario). He assumes tuition increases by 4% and that COL increases by 2.5%. I personally think it's better to look at the worse-case scenario, but that could be what is driving up your COA estimates.
4% is not worst-case scenario. That's actually lower than typical. Last year, Chicago raised tuition+fees by 5.2%. The year before, it raised it 6.3%. Over the last five years, UChi has raised tuition and fees by an average of 4.5%.
:shock:

I'll let him know. Wow.

2.5% for COL, for my understanding, is well above inflation increases, though.
I think 3% for general cost of attendance is fair, keeping in mind that tuition may be a little higher some years, and CoL a little lower. For example, I can't really see my CoL increasing in any meaningful way next year, since my rent and utilities charges are identical, and unless trader joes price indexes increase radically (which they typically don't) my board budget will stay roughly the same too.

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cotiger

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Re: Chi (90k; 170 COA) or reapply

Post by cotiger » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:03 pm

scoobers wrote:
cotiger wrote:
scoobers wrote:Draw, are you using LS22's spreadsheets? They are very conservative (in that, he assumes the worst-case scenario). He assumes tuition increases by 4% and that COL increases by 2.5%. I personally think it's better to look at the worse-case scenario, but that could be what is driving up your COA estimates.
4% is not worst-case scenario. That's actually lower than typical. Last year, Chicago raised tuition+fees by 5.2%. The year before, it raised it 6.3%. Over the last five years, UChi has raised tuition and fees by an average of 4.5%.
:shock:

I'll let him know. Wow.

2.5% for COL, for my understanding, is well above inflation increases, though.
Most schools have seen 4-4.5% average yearly increases over the past five years. They don't seem to be slowing down either, looking at those last two UChi increases and H's recent 4.8% increase for 13-14.

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lawschool22

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Re: Chi (90k; 170 COA) or reapply

Post by lawschool22 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:46 pm

cotiger wrote:
scoobers wrote:Draw, are you using LS22's spreadsheets? They are very conservative (in that, he assumes the worst-case scenario). He assumes tuition increases by 4% and that COL increases by 2.5%. I personally think it's better to look at the worse-case scenario, but that could be what is driving up your COA estimates.
4% is not worst-case scenario. That's actually lower than typical. Last year, Chicago raised tuition+fees by 5.2%. The year before, it raised it 6.3%. Over the last five years, UChi has raised tuition and fees by an average of 4.5%.
Yeah, 4.49% is average if you guys want to be precise. I mentioned in the spreadsheet that those were guidelines. I have considered updating the spreadsheet to allow custom COL and Tuition increase percentages for each school, but I'm trying to weigh simplicity vs accuracy. For most people the differences probably aren't drastic enough to change the correct decision.

Also, fwiw the average COL increase for Chicago for the past 3 years was 1.89%.

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drawstring

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Re: Chi (90k; 170 COA) or reapply

Post by drawstring » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:39 pm

Yes I did use LS's calculator. Should I expect a 90k scholarship to bring me significantly under 170k COA?

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2014

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Re: Chi (90k; 170 COA) or reapply

Post by 2014 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:42 pm

COL is variable, depends how much you care. My COL has gone up by a shit ton this year because of increased rent and generally reckless expenditures but others almost certainly went down from decreased rent, more time to feed themselves, and budgeting like an adult.

Chicago's listed COA includes the laptop budget so make sure you or the spreadsheet or whatever is only including that once.

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lawschool22

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Re: Chi (90k; 170 COA) or reapply

Post by lawschool22 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:45 pm

drawstring wrote:Yes I did use LS's calculator. Should I expect a 90k scholarship to bring me significantly under 170k COA?
I mean the calculator should be pretty accurate assuming your inputs are good.

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