Berkeley vs UCLA ($) Forum

kjones7 · Post by **kjones7** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:37 pm

Hello everyone.

I have been admitted to both UCLA and Berkeley. I haven't heard from Berkeley yet when it comes to any scholarship money and UCLA offered me 120k. I know it's hard to form an opinion with incomplete information but I am going crazy was hoping to get some opinions. . .

I am from So-Cal and would like to ultimately end up practicing here. I am definitely interested in Entertainment Law but it's not my only interest.

I would love to hear what everyone here thinks. . .

Is UCLA worth it with that scholarship offer? Would Berkeley at sticker be worth it?

Thank you!!!

whereskyle · Post by **whereskyle** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:42 pm

If you know people in L.A., who might be able to help you get a legal job if you are at the bottom of the class, then I'd go with UCLA hands down. It is respected in L.A.

Winston1984 · Post by **Winston1984** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:45 pm

Biglaw or bust?

kjones7 · Post by **kjones7** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:52 pm

Winston1984 wrote:Biglaw or bust?

BigLaw is preferred when I graduate but not necessarily where I want to ultimately spend my career.

whereskyle · Post by **whereskyle** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:04 pm

If you can get away with no rent at UCLA, then that's a steal, which I would take.

Hutz_and_Goodman · Post by **Hutz_and_Goodman** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:10 pm

No one can tell you for sure until you get aid from Berkeley, but $120k from UCLA is a great deal. If there's more than a $50k difference from Berkeley I personally would go to UCLA.

arklaw13 · Post by **arklaw13** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:13 pm

Around 20% more Berkley people get biglaw than UCLA with basically equal class sizes (~60% vs. ~39% 100+ firm & clerkships). The cost difference if you're paying sticker at B is ~$150k plus the extra interest. Really just depends on how much risk/debt you're willing to take on. If it were me, I'd take UCLA but I'm pretty debt-averse.

Winston1984 · Post by **Winston1984** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:08 pm

Tough call, are you sure you won't get anything from Berkeley? I would probably take UCLA in this situation knowing that I won't likely get biglaw. I think sticker is too much for Berkeley. No other T-14 apps?

kjones7 · Post by **kjones7** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:31 pm

Winston1984 wrote:Tough call, are you sure you won't get anything from Berkeley? I would probably take UCLA in this situation knowing that I won't likely get biglaw. I think sticker is too much for Berkeley. No other T-14 apps?

I have applications pending still at Harvard and Stanford but I don't have super high hopes there. These are likely the final 2 I will be choosing between.

I really am just trying to wrap my head around how much more I'm willing to spend on Berkeley.

Nomo · Post by **Nomo** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:52 pm

1 out of 5 UCLA students is unemployed or underemployed 9 months after graduation. That's a pretty bad number for an education that will cost 6 figures even with your huge scholarship (unless you can live well beneath the student budget). At the same time Berkeley at sticker is outrageous. In a world where you may not be able to rely on IBR and PSLF I just don't think Berkeley anywhere near sticker can be justified.

whereskyle · Post by **whereskyle** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:06 pm

So, let me chime in with my reason for EDing to NU. If I live on $15,000/yr with no income, I will be looking at 70k in debt at graduation. This is still plenty of debt, but it means that I don't have to gun for biglaw. I can pursue a wide variety of legal jobs, some of which might actually be more interesting/less taxing than biglaw. As the career services people will tell you, the less debt you have, the more options you have. If you want to work in L.A., you will have access to it all as a student at UCLA, and you will not be compelled to consider only a small portion of the jobs available to young grads.

Winston1984 · Post by **Winston1984** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:07 pm

I think a decent scholarship to a mid/lower T-14 or even a T6 would be better in this case. Kinda surprised you didn't apply to more schools.

BanjoCalhoun · Post by **BanjoCalhoun** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:13 pm

I would inform Berkeley of your UCLA scholarship, assuming you haven't already. UCLA isn't covered within their scholarship matching program, which is itself a form of negotiation, but it shows a willingness on their part to consider other offers to see if they can make the decision easier for you. Their counter offer won't be anywhere close to 120k but it could be enough to push you off the fence. Visited and I thought Berkeley was wonderful, both in the campus and people I met. Don't have experience with UCLA.

I think that the quality of your first job, or even getting one at all, will have a ripple effect throughout a lawyer's career that could in many cases exceed the value of even a large scholarship. It's worth considering how big you think that lifetime earnings difference could be.

rpupkin · Post by **rpupkin** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:32 pm

Boalt is a better law school than UCLA and will generally open up more doors for you. But for someone who wants to practice law in Southern California, I just don't think that Boalt is worth $120K more.

bruinfan10 · Post by **bruinfan10** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:01 pm

whereskyle · Post by **whereskyle** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:14 pm

bruinfan10 wrote:UCLA has really poor employment stats, and they're getting worse over time. I guess if you're 100% certain you'll be staying in LA, it's worth considering, but man, if there's any way you could swing Berkeley, Boalt gives you a tremendously more portable/valuable degree.

(Edit: I should note that I was UCLA for undergrad, not for law school--I turned down a $120k offer from UCLA Law to go to Michigan on a half scholly. I would've accepted my Boalt offer in a heartbeat if they'd given me anything close to comparable money. I hate saying anything helpful to that stingy/uncommunicative admissions office, but man I would've loved to go to Boalt...)

But you made the right decision and you went to school for half tuition.

bruinfan10 · Post by **bruinfan10** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:31 pm

PrideandGlory1776 · Post by **PrideandGlory1776** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:37 pm

2013
Boalt Big Law: 44.85%
UCLA Big Law: 30.42%

2012
Boalt Big Law: 45.28%
UCLA Big Law: 29.13%

Of course there's considerations beyond mere big law considerations and certain intangible long-term considerations about opportunities that would arise or not arise based on your schools' prestige but if you just want to practice law take UCLA's 120k and enjoy life.

rpupkin · Post by **rpupkin** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:42 pm

Here's how I would break it down were I OP and decided to go to UCLA:

If I ended up top 10%, I would maybe kick myself for not going to B because I would've lost out on certain elite firm/Clerkship/Gov't options.

If I ended up around top 25%, I'd be happy with UCLA because I would roughly end up on the same big law path as I would've been on at Boalt.

If I ended up at median, I'd wish I was at Boalt because I'd still have a better than average shot at big law.

If I ended up below median, I'd be happy with UCLA because I'd likely have been shut out of big law at Berkeley anyway and would therefore be glad I didn't have a bunch of debt.

kjones7 · Post by **kjones7** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:54 am

Thank you so much everyone for all the advice. Obviously I still need to wait to hear from Berkeley on financial aid but this has given me a lot to think about.

I'll update as new info comes in . . .

jbagelboy · Post by **jbagelboy** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:04 am

I hope OP spread apps throughout the T14 for those matching scholarships and didn't foolishly limit him/herself to CA schools..

FWIW I got $75K at Cal via matching with less than your initial UCLA offer (although I could have pushed for full ride instate if I was committed) so your differential is definitely unnecessarily large.

kjones7 · Post by **kjones7** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:33 pm

jbagelboy wrote:I hope OP spread apps throughout the T14 for those matching scholarships and didn't foolishly limit him/herself to CA schools..

FWIW I got $75K at Cal via matching with less than your initial UCLA offer (although I could have pushed for full ride instate if I was committed) so your differential is definitely unnecessarily large.

I applied to most of the top 20.

In:
Berkeley
UCI
USC
UCLA

Waitlisted:
Virginia
Duke

Waiting:
Chicago
Penn
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Georgetown

So obviously I still have a lot coming in that will factor into my decision, but if I can stay in California I would definitely prefer that. I was also a late applier (December LSAT taker :-/) so I am worried about decisions/scholarships will come in too late.

kjones7 · Post by **kjones7** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:59 pm

So update.

I received my scholarship offer from Berkeley. Its 22k a year, but it is need based and not guaranteed each year. I have asked the financial aid office if it is likely I will continue to receive this scholarship for the next two years and if it will around the same amount.

Do any of you know anything about these type of need based aides?

aboutmydaylight · Post by **aboutmydaylight** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:08 pm

bruinfan10 wrote:
whereskyle wrote:
bruinfan10 wrote:UCLA has really poor employment stats, and they're getting worse over time. I guess if you're 100% certain you'll be staying in LA, it's worth considering, but man, if there's any way you could swing Berkeley, Boalt gives you a tremendously more portable/valuable degree.

(Edit: I should note that I was UCLA for undergrad, not for law school--I turned down a $120k offer from UCLA Law to go to Michigan on a half scholly. I would've accepted my Boalt offer in a heartbeat if they'd given me anything close to comparable money. I hate saying anything helpful to that stingy/uncommunicative admissions office, but man I would've loved to go to Boalt...)
But you made the right decision and you went to school for half tuition.
Yeah. Here's hoping Boalt coughs something up for OP to make the decision a little less painful. I'd just hate to be median at UCLA, no matter how much money they threw at me...

Boalt didn't match your Mich offer?

aboutmydaylight · Post by **aboutmydaylight** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:12 pm

kjones7 wrote:So update.

I received my scholarship offer from Berkeley. Its 22k a year, but it is need based and not guaranteed each year. I have asked the financial aid office if it is likely I will continue to receive this scholarship for the next two years and if it will around the same amount.

Do any of you know anything about these type of need based aides?

You have to resubmit financial aid forms each year. If your parents income doesn't change significantly it'll likely be similar. If you get a firm SA job your 2L summer, they're going to expect you to contribute~13-14k and your aid will likewise drop.

By the way that's an insane financial aid offer from Berkeley, I'm honestly shocked they go that high.

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