Virginia school-funded positions Forum
- monsterman
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Virginia school-funded positions
Can anyone speak to the quality of school-funded jobs at UVA? Their 15% of grads employed by the school is rather disconcerting, especially if they are the low-caliber jobs that pay 15 dollars per hour.
LST also shows NYU places double digits into school-funded positions and other top schools very close to the double digits.
So, are these jobs substantially different than the school-funded jobs at lower-ranked schools? I couldn't find anything by searching, so any knowledge on this is appreciated!
LST also shows NYU places double digits into school-funded positions and other top schools very close to the double digits.
So, are these jobs substantially different than the school-funded jobs at lower-ranked schools? I couldn't find anything by searching, so any knowledge on this is appreciated!
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
I'm sure someone else will confirm or deny this, but I remember reading that the school funded number includes a lot of grads in PI jobs that UVA helps subsidize. It seems like a really high number but a lot of those kids will keep their jobs when the subsidization ends.
At least, this was my impression. I could very well be very wrong.
At least, this was my impression. I could very well be very wrong.
- Law Sauce
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
To a lot of PI people, school-funded fellowships are a positive way to break into and show commitment to PI
- Otunga
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
Will the school pay you to work for a private employer?
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
UVA calls them the Robert F. Kennedy Fellowships. Basically, you get $31,500 for one year (though the school wants you to find a job ASAP) to work in public service. People have used them to work at nonprofits, prosecutor and PD offices, Legal Aid places, government agencies, and even used them to land clerkships. Many public interest students have used them to get their foot into the door at organizations and have ended up getting hired permanently at the places they worked at.
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- monsterman
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
Thanks, that's really helpful. And it's more encouraging than admissions jobs or something. I wonder how much, if any of those fellowships are a result of self-selection.
- A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
Why should they?Otunga wrote:Will the school pay you to work for a private employer?
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
Why should they pay you to intern somewhere?A. Nony Mouse wrote:Why should they?Otunga wrote:Will the school pay you to work for a private employer?
- worldtraveler
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
It's likely a combination of self-selection and poor employment prospects for some grads. For PI students, anyone who isn't insanely lucky to get an outside fellowship, they will most likely need a school funded one, making this a desired prospect rather than a failure. If you wanted big law or some other option and end up on this program, it's probably not a good outcome.monsterman wrote:Thanks, that's really helpful. And it's more encouraging than admissions jobs or something. I wonder how much, if any of those fellowships are a result of self-selection.
A good way to tell would be to see how many student opt out of OCI or only do limited OCI for gov employers or plaintiff side firms. Only people 100% dedicated to PI would do that. If roughly 15% of students are opting out and 15% are on fellowships, there is likely a lot of overlap there.
I don't know anyone from UVA on a fellowship, but I do know people from most other top schools on them and a lot of people are using it to work with an organization that would normally never hire a recent grad and so they are getting pretty great experience.
- Otunga
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
No assumptions necessarily made - but I guess it affirms that biglaw people that didn't get biglaw end up working for the school in some generic admissions capacity or something.Desert Fox wrote:Why should they pay you to intern somewhere?A. Nony Mouse wrote:Why should they?Otunga wrote:Will the school pay you to work for a private employer?
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
PI people have a harder time finding PI than private practice folks finding big law. PI hiring is tough, random, and rare.Otunga wrote:No assumptions necessarily made - but I guess it affirms that biglaw people that didn't get biglaw end up working for the school in some generic admissions capacity or something.Desert Fox wrote:Why should they pay you to intern somewhere?A. Nony Mouse wrote:Why should they?Otunga wrote:Will the school pay you to work for a private employer?
- bowser
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
That's not true, as far as I know. For most people who wanted Biglaw and didn't get it, they do some reassessing. A lot end up working in school-funded positions for various reasons, probably the most important of which is to gain experience. Some have decided that non-Biglaw entry-level private sector work isn't that appealing (for legitimate reasons).Otunga wrote:No assumptions necessarily made - but I guess it affirms that biglaw people who didn't get biglaw end up working for the school in some generic admissions capacity or something.Desert Fox wrote:Why should they pay you to intern somewhere?A. Nony Mouse wrote:Why should they?Otunga wrote:Will the school pay you to work for a private employer?
It's a mess and terrible and very alarming that good law schools have to fund employment for 10% of their graduates, but they're not scams in the sense that they pay you to lick stamps so their employment stats look good, or whatever. That is pretty counterproductive all around.
- A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
I'm thinking of the labor laws and the whole prohibition on interning without pay for a for-profit institution. I think a school essentially supporting you while you volunteer for a non-profit entity is very different from a school subsidizing you to volunteer for a private employer that's making a profit off your work. If the partners (or whatever structure is in place) in a private company are being enriched by your work, you should get paid (by them) for it. No one at a non-profit makes more money because more work gets done.Desert Fox wrote:Why should they pay you to intern somewhere?A. Nony Mouse wrote:Why should they?Otunga wrote:Will the school pay you to work for a private employer?
(But to be clear: I have no idea if schools share this point of view or if Virginia funds people to work for private employers or not. I'd be slightly surprised if they do, for the reasons above, but I can't say that they don't.)
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- Tom Joad
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
It's not really that different. It just allows the higher up boomers at the non-profit to draw bigger salaries for themselves.A. Nony Mouse wrote:I'm thinking of the labor laws and the whole prohibition on interning without pay for a for-profit institution. I think a school essentially supporting you while you volunteer for a non-profit entity is very different from a school subsidizing you to volunteer for a private employer that's making a profit off your work. If the partners (or whatever structure is in place) in a private company are being enriched by your work, you should get paid (by them) for it. No one at a non-profit makes more money because more work gets done.Desert Fox wrote:Why should they pay you to intern somewhere?A. Nony Mouse wrote:Why should they?Otunga wrote:Will the school pay you to work for a private employer?
(But to be clear: I have no idea if schools share this point of view or if Virginia funds people to work for private employers or not. I'd be slightly surprised if they do, for the reasons above, but I can't say that they don't.)
- Tiago Splitter
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
As Joad said there's really not much difference. FWIW, schools like SMU and Duke have programs where they will pay private employers to hire people on a short term basis.A. Nony Mouse wrote: I'm thinking of the labor laws and the whole prohibition on interning without pay for a for-profit institution. I think a school essentially supporting you while you volunteer for a non-profit entity is very different from a school subsidizing you to volunteer for a private employer that's making a profit off your work. If the partners (or whatever structure is in place) in a private company are being enriched by your work, you should get paid (by them) for it. No one at a non-profit makes more money because more work gets done.
- monsterman
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
So it's safe to say the shitty school-funded jobs at T2s are largely not comparable to the T14?
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
No, they are problem the same. Just internships the schools gives you a stipend for.monsterman wrote:So it's safe to say the shitty school-funded jobs at T2s are largely not comparable to the T14?
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- A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
I never know when Joad is actually serious. But I mean, if you don't see a difference you don't see a difference, I guess.Tiago Splitter wrote:As Joad said there's really not much difference. FWIW, schools like SMU and Duke have programs where they will pay private employers to hire people on a short term basis.A. Nony Mouse wrote: I'm thinking of the labor laws and the whole prohibition on interning without pay for a for-profit institution. I think a school essentially supporting you while you volunteer for a non-profit entity is very different from a school subsidizing you to volunteer for a private employer that's making a profit off your work. If the partners (or whatever structure is in place) in a private company are being enriched by your work, you should get paid (by them) for it. No one at a non-profit makes more money because more work gets done.
- Tiago Splitter
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
From the student's perspective it's unemployment vs. getting paid to work. That's the only difference they care about.A. Nony Mouse wrote: I never know when Joad is actually serious. But I mean, if you don't see a difference you don't see a difference, I guess.
- worldtraveler
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
There are some with the same type of programs. Others pay people to work in the library, so it's tough to make a blanket statement.monsterman wrote:So it's safe to say the shitty school-funded jobs at T2s are largely not comparable to the T14?
- A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
But it's not just about the student's perspective.Tiago Splitter wrote:From the student's perspective it's unemployment vs. getting paid to work. That's the only difference they care about.A. Nony Mouse wrote: I never know when Joad is actually serious. But I mean, if you don't see a difference you don't see a difference, I guess.
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- Otunga
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
On its face, I don't see a lot wrong with a school funding a private internship, that is, if they've literally exhausted all other potential legal job routes. Can anyone who opposes it explain why it is?
- dresden doll
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
It's not really that different. It just allows the higher up boomers at the non-profit to draw bigger salaries for themselves.[/quote]Tom Joad wrote: (But to be clear: I have no idea if schools share this point of view or if Virginia funds people to work for private employers or not. I'd be slightly surprised if they do, for the reasons above, but I can't say that they don't.)
It doesn't boost anyone's salary. It just allows the staff to become less overloaded by having an extra person around to help with the work.
- A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
Because, like I said, school funded positions with private employers increase those employers' personal profits. That's not the case for non-profit entities. If a private employer personally benefits from your work, they should pay you. (Also, the labor department draws a distinction.)Otunga wrote:On its face, I don't see a lot wrong with a school funding a private internship, that is, if they've literally exhausted all other potential legal job routes. Can anyone who opposes it explain why it is?
But as you can see, it's not a popular opinion around here.
- Otunga
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Re: Virginia school-funded positions
That makes sense, but at the same time, the worker is getting compensated, and assuming it's at a comparable rate of what the firm would pay them, I'm good with it. That said, if private practices are seeking out workers paid by their schools like leaches, that's problematic. It should be a last resort - not something constantly desired.A. Nony Mouse wrote:Because, like I said, school funded positions with private employers increase those employers' personal profits. That's not the case for non-profit entities. If a private employer personally benefits from your work, they should pay you. (Also, the labor department draws a distinction.)Otunga wrote:On its face, I don't see a lot wrong with a school funding a private internship, that is, if they've literally exhausted all other potential legal job routes. Can anyone who opposes it explain why it is?
But as you can see, it's not a popular opinion around here.
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