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Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:34 am
by HorseThief
If you want to see any other rankings (transfers, # of courses), PM me and I'll add it.

LRW
Yale: Ungraded, but built into another class so it's P/F
Harvard: Graded H/P/LP/F
Stanford: Graded H/P (with rare case of restricted credit)
Columbia: Graded HP/P/LP/F (Doesn't factor into GPA)
Chicago: 1 Quarter Ungraded, 2 Graded
NYU: P/F
Penn: H/P/F
UVA: Graded P/F (Doesn't factor into GPA)
Berkeley: 1 Semester Credit/No Credit (but everyone gets credit), 1 Semester HH/H/P
UMich: Graded H/P/F
Duke: Graded
Northwestern:
Cornell: Graded
Georgetown: Graded

Class Size
  1. Stanford 179
  2. Cornell 193
  3. Chicago 196
  4. Yale 201
  5. Duke 208
  6. Northwestern 228
  7. Penn 251
  8. Berkeley 280
  9. Michigan 314
  10. UVA 331
  11. Columbia 356
  12. NYU 439
  13. Georgetown 544
  14. Harvard 569

Net transfers (percent change in class size)
  1. GULC +114 (+21.0%)
  2. Columbia +50 (+14.0%)
  3. NYU +46 (+10.5%)
  4. Northwestern +41 (+18.0%)
  5. Harvard +34 (+6.0%)
  6. Berkeley +24 (+8.6%)
  7. Chicago +21 (+10.7%)
  8. Michigan +20 (+6.4%)
  9. Yale +13 (+6.5%)
  10. UVA +11 (+3.3%)
  11. Stanford +10 (+5.6%)
  12. Duke +9 (+4.3%)
  13. Penn +9 (+3.6%)
  14. Cornell -4 (-2.1%)

Student to Faculty Ratio
  1. Stanford 7.26 to one
  2. Columbia 7.28 to one
  3. Yale 7.72 to one
  4. Northwestern 8.31 to one
  5. NYU 8.86 to one
  6. Duke 9.26 to one
  7. Cornell 10.32 to one
  8. Penn 10.44 to one
  9. Chicago 11.03 to one
  10. Georgetown 11.2 to one
  11. UVA 11.26 to one
  12. Harvard 11.89 to one
  13. Michigan 12.37 to one
  14. Berkeley 12.5 to one

Minority Enrollment
  1. Berkeley 39.4%
  2. Stanford 38.9%
  3. Cornell 35.3%
  4. Columbia 32.9%
  5. Yale 31.5%
  6. Harvard 31.4%
  7. Northwestern 30.9%
  8. Penn 28.8%
  9. NYU 27.8%
  10. Duke 26.9%
  11. Chicago 25.8%
  12. Michigan 22.4%
  13. UVA 21.3%
  14. Georgetown 15.6%

Female Enrollment
  1. Berkeley 54.4%
  2. Harvard 47.8%
  3. Columbia 46.7%
  4. Yale 46.3%
  5. Cornell 46.2%
  6. Penn 46.2%
  7. Georgetown 45.9%
  8. Michigan 45.4%
  9. Stanford 44.8%
  10. Northwestern 44.2%
  11. UVA 44.1%
  12. Duke 44%
  13. NYU 43.7%
  14. Chicago 43%

Cost of Attendance (2014-15)
  1. Duke $75,103
  2. Harvard $81,900

Cost of Attendance (2013-14)
Note: Assumes Out-of-State and Off-Campus
  1. Michigan $71,484
  2. UVA $73,780
  3. Duke $73,899
  4. Yale $74,790
  5. Northwestern $76,382
  6. Georgetown $76,500
  7. Chicago $76,779
  8. Penn $76,860
  9. Cornell $77,106
  10. Berkeley $77,885
  11. Harvard $78,700
  12. NYU $80,048
  13. Columbia $80,399
  14. Stanford $81,726

Students Receiving Grants
  1. Duke 85.3%
  2. Michigan 71.9%
  3. Chicago 64.3%
  4. Yale 57.6%
  5. Berkeley 57.6%
  6. Stanford 53.6%
  7. Penn 48.6%
  8. Cornell 47.7%
  9. Harvard 47.5%
  10. Columbia 45.7%
  11. Northwestern 39.7%
  12. UVA 37.2%
  13. NYU 37.1%
  14. Georgetown 33.2%

Median Grant
Note: Remember that Median=middle, not average as I had thought
  1. UVA $25,000
  2. Yale $22,322
  3. Stanford $21,938
  4. Northwestern $20,000
  5. NYU $20,000
  6. Harvard $19,800
  7. Duke $18,000
  8. Georgetown $18,000
  9. Penn $16,523
  10. Berkeley $16,358
  11. Michigan $15,000
  12. Chicago $15,000
  13. Cornell $15,000
  14. Columbia $12,000

Percentage of students with half-tuition scholarship or greater (half to full tuition/full tuition and up)
  1. Stanford 24.4% (22.3/2.1)
  2. Yale 23.7% (23.7/0.2)
  3. UVA 17.8% (11.9/5.9)
  4. Harvard 16.0% (13.8/2.2)
  5. Chicago 13.6% (7.2/6.4)
  6. Northwestern 12.8% (12/0.8 )
  7. Berkeley 12.0% (10.7/1.3)
  8. GULC 11.5% (11.5/0)
  9. NYU 10.2% (3.3/6.9)
  10. Penn 9.7% (5.8/3.9)
  11. Columbia 9.2% (8/1.2)
  12. Duke 9.0% (6.7/2.3)
  13. Michigan 6.9% (2.8/4.1)
  14. Cornell 6.7% (6.7/0)

Has Part-Time Students
Yale: No
Harvard: No
Stanford: No
Columbia: Yes (Only 4 though)
Chicago: No
NYU: No
Penn: No
UVA: No
Berkeley: Yes (Only 1 though)
UMich: No
Duke: Yes
Northwestern: No
Cornell: No
Georgetown: Yes

Number of course titles beyond 1L curriculum
  1. Georgetown: 477
  2. Harvard: 356
  3. NYU: 329
  4. Columbia: 295
  5. Stanford: 274
  6. UVA: 251
  7. Berkeley: 248
  8. Northwestern: 236
  9. Michigan: 223
  10. Duke: 214
  11. Yale: 202
  12. Chicago: 194
  13. Penn: 187
  14. Cornell: 157

Number of positions in faculty-supervised clinical courses
  1. Harvard: 626 (0.36 spots per student, 85.9% filled)
  2. Yale: 625 (1.02 spots per student, 85.8% filled)
  3. NYU: 445 (0.3 spots per student, 95.7% filled)
  4. Michigan: 430 (0.38 spots per student, 100% filled)
  5. Berkeley: 403 (0.47 spots per student, 53.6% filled)
  6. Northwestern: 353 (0.44 spots per student, 93.5% filled)
  7. Georgetown: 296 (0.15 spots per student, 91.6% filled)
  8. Stanford: 281 (0.49 spots per student, 80.4% filled)
  9. Duke: 258 (0.39 spots per student, 75.6% filled)
  10. Chicago: 256 (0.42 spots per student, 80.1% filled)
  11. Cornell: 243 (0.41 spots per student, 89.7% filled)
  12. UVA: 201 (0.19 spots per student, 95.5% filled)
  13. Columbia: 165 (0.13 spots per student, 100% filled)
  14. Penn: 164 (0.21 spots per student, 98.2% filled)

Percent of students who participate in law journals
  1. Yale: 73.3%
  2. Stanford: 68.7%
  3. Harvard: 63.7%
  4. UVA: 63.7%
  5. Duke: 59.4%
  6. Columbia: 55.5%
  7. Northwestern: 55%
  8. Penn: 53%
  9. Michigan: 51.5%
  10. Cornell: 48.3%
  11. NYU: 47.7%
  12. Georgetown: 40.9%
  13. Berkeley: 36.2%
  14. Chicago: 23%

1L attrition rates
  1. Penn: 0% (0 students)
  2. Cornell: 0% (0 students)
  3. Columbia: 0.3% (1 student)
  4. Harvard: 0.4% (2 students)
  5. Yale: 0.5% (1 student)
  6. Chicago: 1.1% (2 students)
  7. NYU: 1.1% (5 students)
  8. Berkeley: 1.1% (3 students)
  9. Northwestern: 1.2% (3 students)
  10. Duke: 1.5% (3 students)
  11. Stanford: 1.7% (3 students)
  12. Michigan: 1.7% (6 students)
  13. UVA: 2.2% (8 students)
  14. Georgetown: 3.3% (19 students)

Extra-Curricular Expectations for 1L's
Yale: ?
Harvard: None (though most do a journal and/or pro-bono)
Stanford: Journal and Pro-bono
Columbia: ?
Chicago: ?
NYU: Pro-bono
Penn: ?
UVA: ?
Berkeley: Yes?
UMich: ?
Duke: ?
Northwestern: ?
Cornell: ?
Georgetown: Pro-bono

Re: T-14 Rankings (LWR, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:35 am
by HorseThief
Aside from the LWR info, everything else was pulled from the ABA school reports which are self reporting by each school.

Re: T-14 Rankings (LWR, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:36 am
by HorseThief
[Reserved]

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:45 pm
by Robb
Good to see an updated thread.

Chicago has 1 quarter ungraded, and 2 quarters graded LRW.

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:01 pm
by moonman157
Columbia is HP/P/LP/F

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:06 pm
by cotiger
Percentage of students with half-tuition scholarship or greater (half to full tuition/full tuition and up):

1) Stanford 24.4% (22.3/2.1)
2) Yale 23.7% (23.7/0.2)
3) UVA 17.8% (11.9/5.9)
4) Harvard 16.0% (13.8/2.2)
5) Chicago 13.6% (7.2/6.4)
6) Northwestern 12.8% (12/0.8 )
7) Berkeley 12.0% (10.7/1.3)
8 )GULC 11.5% (11.5/0)
9) NYU 10.2% (3.3/6.9)
10) Penn 9.7% (5.8/3.9)
11) Columbia 9.2% (8/1.2)
12) Duke 9.0% (6.7/2.3)
13) Michigan 6.9% (2.8/4.1)
14) Cornell 6.7% (6.7/0)

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:18 pm
by kemosabe
Thanks for the update HorseThief. Does anyone know what is up with the part-time students at Columbia? I'm guessing that is available only under exceptional circumstances.

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:41 pm
by FluffMonster
Tag

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:56 pm
by HorseThief
Updated. Thanks for the LRW info.


Re: Part-Time at Columbia, they didn't admit anyone pt, so I'd assume it's either an unusual dual degree person or a personal issue.


Also, I have all of this data for the T35 schools. Would it be helpful for me to rank them as well, or would it just be too much at that point?

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:23 am
by North
UVA LRW is P/F.

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:42 am
by cotiger
Net transfers (percent change in class size):

1) GULC +114 (+21.0%)
2) Columbia +50 (+14.0%)
3) NYU +46 (+10.5%)
4) Northwestern +41 (+18.0%)
5) Harvard +34 (+6.0%)
6) Berkeley +24 (+8.6%)
7) Chicago +21 (+10.7%)
8 )Michigan +20 (+6.4%)
9) Yale +13 (+6.5%)
10) UVA +11 (+3.3%)
11) Stanford +10 (+5.6%)
12) Duke +9 (+4.3%)
13) Penn +9 (+3.6%)
14) Cornell -4 (-2.1%)

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:41 am
by Hrun
Where did you find Georgetown's minority enrollment at 43.5%? This doesn't sound right for what I've seen on LSAC and their admissions fact sheet.

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:46 am
by cannibal ox
HorseThief wrote:Also, I have all of this data for the T35 schools. Would it be helpful for me to rank them as well, or would it just be too much at that point?


I would be interested in the LRW information for more schools, no strong feelings on the rest of the categories.

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:51 am
by Lavitz
Cornell and Duke have graded LRW.

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:53 am
by SLS_AMG
Berkeley LRW is ungraded (really credit/no credit, but everyone gets credit) first semester, High Honors/Honors/Pass second semester.

I have to say though, I really think the LRW grading thing is blown out of proportion on here. At Berkeley, LRW ends like a month before all other classes both in the fall and the spring. I can't see LRW having any significant impact on other grades. But maybe that's just me.

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:55 am
by Anastasia Dee Dualla
NYU's LRW is P/F.

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:56 am
by HorseThief
Hrun wrote:Where did you find Georgetown's minority enrollment at 43.5%? This doesn't sound right for what I've seen on LSAC and their admissions fact sheet.


That was my mistake. 43.5% is their 'white' enrollment (which is just below the 'total minority' number. Their minority is actually the lowest at 15.6%. Sorry about the error, and thanks for the catch.

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:49 am
by Crowing
Chicago is incorrect in the OP; it's two graded and one ungraded.

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:19 am
by HorseThief
Dammit, I am so bad at this. Someone else probably should have made the thread....

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:29 am
by bruinfan10
.

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:53 pm
by oxie
Thanks for updating this thread!

Here are some categories I thought might be useful to add (also from the ABA 509 forms)...

Number of course titles beyond 1L curriculum:
1) Georgetown: 477
2) Harvard: 356
3) NYU: 329
4) Columbia: 295
5) Stanford: 274
6) UVA: 251
7) Berkeley: 248
8 ) Northwestern: 236
9) Michigan: 223
10) Duke: 214
11) Yale: 202
12) Chicago: 194
13) Penn: 187
14) Cornell: 157

UPDATED: Number of positions in faculty-supervised clinical courses:
1) Harvard: 626 (0.36 spots per student, 85.9% filled)
2) Yale: 625 (1.02 spots per student, 85.8% filled)
3) NYU: 445 (0.3 spots per student, 95.7% filled)
4) Michigan: 430 (0.38 spots per student, 100% filled)
5) Berkeley: 403 (0.47 spots per student, 53.6% filled)
6) Northwestern: 353 (0.44 spots per student, 93.5% filled)
7) Georgetown: 296 (0.15 spots per student, 91.6% filled)
8 ) Stanford: 281 (0.49 spots per student, 80.4% filled)
9) Duke: 258 (0.39 spots per student, 75.6% filled)
10) Chicago: 256 (0.42 spots per student, 80.1% filled)
11) Cornell: 243 (0.41 spots per student, 89.7% filled)
12) UVA: 201 (0.19 spots per student, 95.5% filled)
13) Columbia: 165 (0.13 spots per student, 100% filled)
14) Penn: 164 (0.21 spots per student, 98.2% filled)

UPDATED: Percent of students on journal:
1) Yale: 73.3%
2) Stanford: 68.7%
3) Harvard: 63.7%
4) UVA: 63.7%
5) Duke: 59.4%
6) Columbia: 55.5%
7) Northwestern: 55%
8 ) Penn: 53%
9) Michigan: 51.5%
10) Cornell: 48.3%
11) NYU: 47.7%
12) Georgetown: 40.9%
13) Berkeley: 36.2%
14) Chicago: 23%

1L attrition rates:
1) Penn: 0% (0 students)
2) Cornell: 0% (0 students)
3) Columbia: 0.3% (1 student)
4) Harvard: 0.4% (2 students)
5) Yale: 0.5% (1 student)
6) Chicago: 1.1% (2 students)
7) NYU: 1.1% (5 students)
8 ) Berkeley: 1.1% (3 students)
9) Northwestern: 1.2% (3 students)
10) Duke: 1.5% (3 students)
11) Stanford: 1.7% (3 students)
12) Michigan: 1.7% (6 students)
13) UVA: 2.2% (8 students)
14) Georgetown: 3.3% (19 students)

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:51 pm
by rickgrimes69
HorseThief wrote:Section Size
...
5. Duke 58


This isn't correct. Duke has 6 sections. Out of a class of 208, that would allocate an average of ~35 students per section.

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:57 pm
by Pneumonia
Could we maybe include 2014 COA too?

Harvard 81,900
Duke 75,103
UVA either hasn't updated yet or is the same

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:06 pm
by ThinkNegative
Stanford LRW is graded same way as the doctrinal courses: h/p, with slim-to-nil possibility of "restricted credit" if you do something outrageously lazy or disrespectful

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:25 pm
by jbagelboy
I think it's somewhat irresponsible to label an LRW "graded" if it doesn't factor into GPA/honors at the school. For example, at CLS we consider our LPW (legal writing equivalent) to be "ungraded" since it's not included in calculation of GPA/class honors (even though we don't release an official class rank) and it is therefore distinct from the "Graded" curriculum on an A/A-/B+/B scale.

Other schools with "High Pass/Pass/Fail" structures may still be "graded" in the sense that the class has non-zero weight on class rank/some impact on latin honors - those would be more appropriate metrics for incoming 0L's.

tl;dr, UVA, CLS, ect (and possibly other schools with letter grades in common law curriculum) do not have Graded LRW.