Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
HorseThief
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:45 pm

Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby HorseThief » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:34 am

If you want to see any other rankings (transfers, # of courses), PM me and I'll add it.

LRW
Yale: Ungraded, but built into another class so it's P/F
Harvard: Graded H/P/LP/F
Stanford: Graded H/P (with rare case of restricted credit)
Columbia: Graded HP/P/LP/F (Doesn't factor into GPA)
Chicago: 1 Quarter Ungraded, 2 Graded
NYU: P/F
Penn: H/P/F
UVA: Graded P/F (Doesn't factor into GPA)
Berkeley: 1 Semester Credit/No Credit (but everyone gets credit), 1 Semester HH/H/P
UMich: Graded H/P/F
Duke: Graded
Northwestern:
Cornell: Graded
Georgetown: Graded

Class Size
  1. Stanford 179
  2. Cornell 193
  3. Chicago 196
  4. Yale 201
  5. Duke 208
  6. Northwestern 228
  7. Penn 251
  8. Berkeley 280
  9. Michigan 314
  10. UVA 331
  11. Columbia 356
  12. NYU 439
  13. Georgetown 544
  14. Harvard 569

Net transfers (percent change in class size)
  1. GULC +114 (+21.0%)
  2. Columbia +50 (+14.0%)
  3. NYU +46 (+10.5%)
  4. Northwestern +41 (+18.0%)
  5. Harvard +34 (+6.0%)
  6. Berkeley +24 (+8.6%)
  7. Chicago +21 (+10.7%)
  8. Michigan +20 (+6.4%)
  9. Yale +13 (+6.5%)
  10. UVA +11 (+3.3%)
  11. Stanford +10 (+5.6%)
  12. Duke +9 (+4.3%)
  13. Penn +9 (+3.6%)
  14. Cornell -4 (-2.1%)

Student to Faculty Ratio
  1. Stanford 7.26 to one
  2. Columbia 7.28 to one
  3. Yale 7.72 to one
  4. Northwestern 8.31 to one
  5. NYU 8.86 to one
  6. Duke 9.26 to one
  7. Cornell 10.32 to one
  8. Penn 10.44 to one
  9. Chicago 11.03 to one
  10. Georgetown 11.2 to one
  11. UVA 11.26 to one
  12. Harvard 11.89 to one
  13. Michigan 12.37 to one
  14. Berkeley 12.5 to one

Minority Enrollment
  1. Berkeley 39.4%
  2. Stanford 38.9%
  3. Cornell 35.3%
  4. Columbia 32.9%
  5. Yale 31.5%
  6. Harvard 31.4%
  7. Northwestern 30.9%
  8. Penn 28.8%
  9. NYU 27.8%
  10. Duke 26.9%
  11. Chicago 25.8%
  12. Michigan 22.4%
  13. UVA 21.3%
  14. Georgetown 15.6%

Female Enrollment
  1. Berkeley 54.4%
  2. Harvard 47.8%
  3. Columbia 46.7%
  4. Yale 46.3%
  5. Cornell 46.2%
  6. Penn 46.2%
  7. Georgetown 45.9%
  8. Michigan 45.4%
  9. Stanford 44.8%
  10. Northwestern 44.2%
  11. UVA 44.1%
  12. Duke 44%
  13. NYU 43.7%
  14. Chicago 43%

Cost of Attendance (2014-15)
  1. Duke $75,103
  2. Harvard $81,900

Cost of Attendance (2013-14)
Note: Assumes Out-of-State and Off-Campus
  1. Michigan $71,484
  2. UVA $73,780
  3. Duke $73,899
  4. Yale $74,790
  5. Northwestern $76,382
  6. Georgetown $76,500
  7. Chicago $76,779
  8. Penn $76,860
  9. Cornell $77,106
  10. Berkeley $77,885
  11. Harvard $78,700
  12. NYU $80,048
  13. Columbia $80,399
  14. Stanford $81,726

Students Receiving Grants
  1. Duke 85.3%
  2. Michigan 71.9%
  3. Chicago 64.3%
  4. Yale 57.6%
  5. Berkeley 57.6%
  6. Stanford 53.6%
  7. Penn 48.6%
  8. Cornell 47.7%
  9. Harvard 47.5%
  10. Columbia 45.7%
  11. Northwestern 39.7%
  12. UVA 37.2%
  13. NYU 37.1%
  14. Georgetown 33.2%

Median Grant
Note: Remember that Median=middle, not average as I had thought
  1. UVA $25,000
  2. Yale $22,322
  3. Stanford $21,938
  4. Northwestern $20,000
  5. NYU $20,000
  6. Harvard $19,800
  7. Duke $18,000
  8. Georgetown $18,000
  9. Penn $16,523
  10. Berkeley $16,358
  11. Michigan $15,000
  12. Chicago $15,000
  13. Cornell $15,000
  14. Columbia $12,000

Percentage of students with half-tuition scholarship or greater (half to full tuition/full tuition and up)
  1. Stanford 24.4% (22.3/2.1)
  2. Yale 23.7% (23.7/0.2)
  3. UVA 17.8% (11.9/5.9)
  4. Harvard 16.0% (13.8/2.2)
  5. Chicago 13.6% (7.2/6.4)
  6. Northwestern 12.8% (12/0.8 )
  7. Berkeley 12.0% (10.7/1.3)
  8. GULC 11.5% (11.5/0)
  9. NYU 10.2% (3.3/6.9)
  10. Penn 9.7% (5.8/3.9)
  11. Columbia 9.2% (8/1.2)
  12. Duke 9.0% (6.7/2.3)
  13. Michigan 6.9% (2.8/4.1)
  14. Cornell 6.7% (6.7/0)

Has Part-Time Students
Yale: No
Harvard: No
Stanford: No
Columbia: Yes (Only 4 though)
Chicago: No
NYU: No
Penn: No
UVA: No
Berkeley: Yes (Only 1 though)
UMich: No
Duke: Yes
Northwestern: No
Cornell: No
Georgetown: Yes

Number of course titles beyond 1L curriculum
  1. Georgetown: 477
  2. Harvard: 356
  3. NYU: 329
  4. Columbia: 295
  5. Stanford: 274
  6. UVA: 251
  7. Berkeley: 248
  8. Northwestern: 236
  9. Michigan: 223
  10. Duke: 214
  11. Yale: 202
  12. Chicago: 194
  13. Penn: 187
  14. Cornell: 157

Number of positions in faculty-supervised clinical courses
  1. Harvard: 626 (0.36 spots per student, 85.9% filled)
  2. Yale: 625 (1.02 spots per student, 85.8% filled)
  3. NYU: 445 (0.3 spots per student, 95.7% filled)
  4. Michigan: 430 (0.38 spots per student, 100% filled)
  5. Berkeley: 403 (0.47 spots per student, 53.6% filled)
  6. Northwestern: 353 (0.44 spots per student, 93.5% filled)
  7. Georgetown: 296 (0.15 spots per student, 91.6% filled)
  8. Stanford: 281 (0.49 spots per student, 80.4% filled)
  9. Duke: 258 (0.39 spots per student, 75.6% filled)
  10. Chicago: 256 (0.42 spots per student, 80.1% filled)
  11. Cornell: 243 (0.41 spots per student, 89.7% filled)
  12. UVA: 201 (0.19 spots per student, 95.5% filled)
  13. Columbia: 165 (0.13 spots per student, 100% filled)
  14. Penn: 164 (0.21 spots per student, 98.2% filled)

Percent of students who participate in law journals
  1. Yale: 73.3%
  2. Stanford: 68.7%
  3. Harvard: 63.7%
  4. UVA: 63.7%
  5. Duke: 59.4%
  6. Columbia: 55.5%
  7. Northwestern: 55%
  8. Penn: 53%
  9. Michigan: 51.5%
  10. Cornell: 48.3%
  11. NYU: 47.7%
  12. Georgetown: 40.9%
  13. Berkeley: 36.2%
  14. Chicago: 23%

1L attrition rates
  1. Penn: 0% (0 students)
  2. Cornell: 0% (0 students)
  3. Columbia: 0.3% (1 student)
  4. Harvard: 0.4% (2 students)
  5. Yale: 0.5% (1 student)
  6. Chicago: 1.1% (2 students)
  7. NYU: 1.1% (5 students)
  8. Berkeley: 1.1% (3 students)
  9. Northwestern: 1.2% (3 students)
  10. Duke: 1.5% (3 students)
  11. Stanford: 1.7% (3 students)
  12. Michigan: 1.7% (6 students)
  13. UVA: 2.2% (8 students)
  14. Georgetown: 3.3% (19 students)

Extra-Curricular Expectations for 1L's
Yale: ?
Harvard: None (though most do a journal and/or pro-bono)
Stanford: Journal and Pro-bono
Columbia: ?
Chicago: ?
NYU: Pro-bono
Penn: ?
UVA: ?
Berkeley: Yes?
UMich: ?
Duke: ?
Northwestern: ?
Cornell: ?
Georgetown: Pro-bono
Last edited by HorseThief on Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:25 am, edited 18 times in total.

User avatar
HorseThief
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:45 pm

Re: T-14 Rankings (LWR, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby HorseThief » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:35 am

Aside from the LWR info, everything else was pulled from the ABA school reports which are self reporting by each school.
Last edited by HorseThief on Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
HorseThief
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:45 pm

Re: T-14 Rankings (LWR, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby HorseThief » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:36 am

[Reserved]

User avatar
Robb
Posts: 325
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:21 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby Robb » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:45 pm

Good to see an updated thread.

Chicago has 1 quarter ungraded, and 2 quarters graded LRW.

User avatar
moonman157
Posts: 1040
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:26 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby moonman157 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:01 pm

Columbia is HP/P/LP/F

User avatar
cotiger
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:49 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby cotiger » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:06 pm

Percentage of students with half-tuition scholarship or greater (half to full tuition/full tuition and up):

1) Stanford 24.4% (22.3/2.1)
2) Yale 23.7% (23.7/0.2)
3) UVA 17.8% (11.9/5.9)
4) Harvard 16.0% (13.8/2.2)
5) Chicago 13.6% (7.2/6.4)
6) Northwestern 12.8% (12/0.8 )
7) Berkeley 12.0% (10.7/1.3)
8 )GULC 11.5% (11.5/0)
9) NYU 10.2% (3.3/6.9)
10) Penn 9.7% (5.8/3.9)
11) Columbia 9.2% (8/1.2)
12) Duke 9.0% (6.7/2.3)
13) Michigan 6.9% (2.8/4.1)
14) Cornell 6.7% (6.7/0)

User avatar
kemosabe
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:12 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby kemosabe » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:18 pm

Thanks for the update HorseThief. Does anyone know what is up with the part-time students at Columbia? I'm guessing that is available only under exceptional circumstances.

FluffMonster
Posts: 2205
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:34 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby FluffMonster » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:41 pm

Tag

User avatar
HorseThief
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:45 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby HorseThief » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:56 pm

Updated. Thanks for the LRW info.


Re: Part-Time at Columbia, they didn't admit anyone pt, so I'd assume it's either an unusual dual degree person or a personal issue.


Also, I have all of this data for the T35 schools. Would it be helpful for me to rank them as well, or would it just be too much at that point?

User avatar
North
Posts: 4185
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:09 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby North » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:23 am

UVA LRW is P/F.

User avatar
cotiger
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:49 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby cotiger » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:42 am

Net transfers (percent change in class size):

1) GULC +114 (+21.0%)
2) Columbia +50 (+14.0%)
3) NYU +46 (+10.5%)
4) Northwestern +41 (+18.0%)
5) Harvard +34 (+6.0%)
6) Berkeley +24 (+8.6%)
7) Chicago +21 (+10.7%)
8 )Michigan +20 (+6.4%)
9) Yale +13 (+6.5%)
10) UVA +11 (+3.3%)
11) Stanford +10 (+5.6%)
12) Duke +9 (+4.3%)
13) Penn +9 (+3.6%)
14) Cornell -4 (-2.1%)

Hrun
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:51 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby Hrun » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:41 am

Where did you find Georgetown's minority enrollment at 43.5%? This doesn't sound right for what I've seen on LSAC and their admissions fact sheet.

User avatar
cannibal ox
Posts: 4030
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:49 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby cannibal ox » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:46 am

HorseThief wrote:Also, I have all of this data for the T35 schools. Would it be helpful for me to rank them as well, or would it just be too much at that point?


I would be interested in the LRW information for more schools, no strong feelings on the rest of the categories.

User avatar
Lavitz
Posts: 3379
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 1:39 am

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby Lavitz » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:51 am

Cornell and Duke have graded LRW.

SLS_AMG
Posts: 501
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:18 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby SLS_AMG » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:53 am

Berkeley LRW is ungraded (really credit/no credit, but everyone gets credit) first semester, High Honors/Honors/Pass second semester.

I have to say though, I really think the LRW grading thing is blown out of proportion on here. At Berkeley, LRW ends like a month before all other classes both in the fall and the spring. I can't see LRW having any significant impact on other grades. But maybe that's just me.

User avatar
Anastasia Dee Dualla
Posts: 1173
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:03 am

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby Anastasia Dee Dualla » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:55 am

NYU's LRW is P/F.

User avatar
HorseThief
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:45 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby HorseThief » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:56 am

Hrun wrote:Where did you find Georgetown's minority enrollment at 43.5%? This doesn't sound right for what I've seen on LSAC and their admissions fact sheet.


That was my mistake. 43.5% is their 'white' enrollment (which is just below the 'total minority' number. Their minority is actually the lowest at 15.6%. Sorry about the error, and thanks for the catch.

User avatar
Crowing
Posts: 2636
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:20 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby Crowing » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:49 am

Chicago is incorrect in the OP; it's two graded and one ungraded.

User avatar
HorseThief
Posts: 713
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:45 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby HorseThief » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:19 am

Dammit, I am so bad at this. Someone else probably should have made the thread....

User avatar
bruinfan10
Posts: 587
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:25 am

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby bruinfan10 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:29 am

.
Last edited by bruinfan10 on Thu May 08, 2014 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
oxie
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:51 am

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby oxie » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:53 pm

Thanks for updating this thread!

Here are some categories I thought might be useful to add (also from the ABA 509 forms)...

Number of course titles beyond 1L curriculum:
1) Georgetown: 477
2) Harvard: 356
3) NYU: 329
4) Columbia: 295
5) Stanford: 274
6) UVA: 251
7) Berkeley: 248
8 ) Northwestern: 236
9) Michigan: 223
10) Duke: 214
11) Yale: 202
12) Chicago: 194
13) Penn: 187
14) Cornell: 157

UPDATED: Number of positions in faculty-supervised clinical courses:
1) Harvard: 626 (0.36 spots per student, 85.9% filled)
2) Yale: 625 (1.02 spots per student, 85.8% filled)
3) NYU: 445 (0.3 spots per student, 95.7% filled)
4) Michigan: 430 (0.38 spots per student, 100% filled)
5) Berkeley: 403 (0.47 spots per student, 53.6% filled)
6) Northwestern: 353 (0.44 spots per student, 93.5% filled)
7) Georgetown: 296 (0.15 spots per student, 91.6% filled)
8 ) Stanford: 281 (0.49 spots per student, 80.4% filled)
9) Duke: 258 (0.39 spots per student, 75.6% filled)
10) Chicago: 256 (0.42 spots per student, 80.1% filled)
11) Cornell: 243 (0.41 spots per student, 89.7% filled)
12) UVA: 201 (0.19 spots per student, 95.5% filled)
13) Columbia: 165 (0.13 spots per student, 100% filled)
14) Penn: 164 (0.21 spots per student, 98.2% filled)

UPDATED: Percent of students on journal:
1) Yale: 73.3%
2) Stanford: 68.7%
3) Harvard: 63.7%
4) UVA: 63.7%
5) Duke: 59.4%
6) Columbia: 55.5%
7) Northwestern: 55%
8 ) Penn: 53%
9) Michigan: 51.5%
10) Cornell: 48.3%
11) NYU: 47.7%
12) Georgetown: 40.9%
13) Berkeley: 36.2%
14) Chicago: 23%

1L attrition rates:
1) Penn: 0% (0 students)
2) Cornell: 0% (0 students)
3) Columbia: 0.3% (1 student)
4) Harvard: 0.4% (2 students)
5) Yale: 0.5% (1 student)
6) Chicago: 1.1% (2 students)
7) NYU: 1.1% (5 students)
8 ) Berkeley: 1.1% (3 students)
9) Northwestern: 1.2% (3 students)
10) Duke: 1.5% (3 students)
11) Stanford: 1.7% (3 students)
12) Michigan: 1.7% (6 students)
13) UVA: 2.2% (8 students)
14) Georgetown: 3.3% (19 students)
Last edited by oxie on Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
rickgrimes69
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:56 am

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby rickgrimes69 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:51 pm

HorseThief wrote:Section Size
...
5. Duke 58


This isn't correct. Duke has 6 sections. Out of a class of 208, that would allocate an average of ~35 students per section.

User avatar
Pneumonia
Posts: 1789
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:05 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby Pneumonia » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:57 pm

Could we maybe include 2014 COA too?

Harvard 81,900
Duke 75,103
UVA either hasn't updated yet or is the same

ThinkNegative
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:07 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby ThinkNegative » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:06 pm

Stanford LRW is graded same way as the doctrinal courses: h/p, with slim-to-nil possibility of "restricted credit" if you do something outrageously lazy or disrespectful

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 10175
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Updated T-14 Rankings (LRW, COA, etc.) 2013

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:25 pm

I think it's somewhat irresponsible to label an LRW "graded" if it doesn't factor into GPA/honors at the school. For example, at CLS we consider our LPW (legal writing equivalent) to be "ungraded" since it's not included in calculation of GPA/class honors (even though we don't release an official class rank) and it is therefore distinct from the "Graded" curriculum on an A/A-/B+/B scale.

Other schools with "High Pass/Pass/Fail" structures may still be "graded" in the sense that the class has non-zero weight on class rank/some impact on latin honors - those would be more appropriate metrics for incoming 0L's.

tl;dr, UVA, CLS, ect (and possibly other schools with letter grades in common law curriculum) do not have Graded LRW.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 2 guests