Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Indiana Bloomington or Tennessee?

Indiana Bloomington
9
35%
Tennessee
17
65%
 
Total votes: 26

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kellohitty
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Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby kellohitty » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:59 pm

Hello all,

My most enticing two offers have been from IU Bloomington and Tennessee.

I've done a fair assessment of both schools and I'm still in a quandary. Just for reference, my SO will be moving with me and will cover the cost of living and transportation costs, so I only need to take out loans for tuition, fees, and books.

IU Bloomington:
Out of state resident
Scholarship: $20,000/yr for all three years, given that I remain in good standing
Tuition + mandatory fees: $48962 - scholarship= $28962 per year

University of Tennessee:
In-state tuition (resident, no scholarship)
Tuition + mandatory fees: $18,962 per year

Financially, it seems like UTK is the clear choice as it is 30k cheaper over all 3 years. However, (and I realize that rankings are somewhat arbitrary) IU Bloomington ranks #25 and UTK ranks #61 according to USNWR. I'd prefer to stay in the Indiana market but have no clear preference, but would like whichever degree may be more mobile (it seems like IUB may have a slight advantage). According to LST, IUB has an employment score of 53.4% and UTK has an employment score of 62.6%.

Also, does anyone think I might have a chance negotiating with IUB for more scholly $ to get the costs comparable to UTK?

My decision may come down to which campus/area I like more, but I'd love to get in on some of that TLS wisdom. 8)

Thank you in advance!

thebobs1987
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby thebobs1987 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:18 pm

kellohitty wrote:Hello all,

My most enticing two offers have been from IU Bloomington and Tennessee.

I've done a fair assessment of both schools and I'm still in a quandary. Just for reference, my SO will be moving with me and will cover the cost of living and transportation costs, so I only need to take out loans for tuition, fees, and books.

IU Bloomington:
Out of state resident
Scholarship: $20,000/yr for all three years, given that I remain in good standing
Tuition + mandatory fees: $48962 - scholarship= $28962 per year

University of Tennessee:
In-state tuition (resident, no scholarship)
Tuition + mandatory fees: $18,962 per year

Financially, it seems like UTK is the clear choice as it is 30k cheaper over all 3 years. However, (and I realize that rankings are somewhat arbitrary) IU Bloomington ranks #25 and UTK ranks #61 according to USNWR. I'd prefer to stay in the Indiana market but have no clear preference, but would like whichever degree may be more mobile (it seems like IUB may have a slight advantage). According to LST, IUB has an employment score of 53.4% and UTK has an employment score of 62.6%.

Also, does anyone think I might have a chance negotiating with IUB for more scholly $ to get the costs comparable to UTK?

My decision may come down to which campus/area I like more, but I'd love to get in on some of that TLS wisdom. 8)

Thank you in advance!


Neither are very mobile. Most likely you stay in Indiana if you go to IUB and stay in TN if you go to UTK. You're right IUB is a little more mobile, but only if you are near the top of your class. I would say if you would prefer Indiana, go with IUB, but negotiate with them. That is way too much to pay to go to IUB. I wouldn't go more than 50-60k in debt for IUB. What are your LSAT/GPA numbers

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Sacred Cow
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby Sacred Cow » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:19 pm

The problem is that neither of these schools are "mobile". You'll have to decide if you want to work in Indiana or Tennessee, because I don't think either of those will get you out of their respective states. You should also consider what ties you have to each state, because I think it would be risky to go to one of these schools without a clear connection to the market. Personally, I would take UTK here for the lower cost and because it sounds like you already live in Tennessee, but the most important question is which state you would rather live in. Also, negotiate the scholarship regardless of which school you choose because, why not?

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Nova
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby Nova » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:20 pm

IGNORE USNWR

Tennessee is the clear winner here.

ties + better LST score + significantly cheaper = WIN

rad lulz
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:23 pm

Nova wrote:IGNORE USNWR

Tennessee is the clear winner here.

ties + better LST score + significantly cheaper = WIN

BigZuck
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby BigZuck » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:35 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Nova wrote:IGNORE USNWR

Tennessee is the clear winner here.

ties + better LST score + significantly cheaper = WIN


Yeah, IUB is a non-starter. Moving to a random Midwest state to attend a random Midwest school when you're from TN makes no sense.

I'm also very leery of relying on a "SO" for cost of living and transplanting them across the country unless that other is very significant, but maybe it is like a spouse or something.

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kellohitty
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby kellohitty » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:45 pm

BigZuck wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Nova wrote:IGNORE USNWR

Tennessee is the clear winner here.

ties + better LST score + significantly cheaper = WIN


Yeah, IUB is a non-starter. Moving to a random Midwest state to attend a random Midwest school when you're from TN makes no sense.

I'm also very leery of relying on a "SO" for cost of living and transplanting them across the country unless that other is very significant, but maybe it is like a spouse or something.


Even though Bloomington is considered Midwest, it is only 4 hours away from my home in Nashville. UT is 3 hours away, so distance isn't playing into my decision.

BigZuck
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby BigZuck » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:15 pm

kellohitty wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Nova wrote:IGNORE USNWR

Tennessee is the clear winner here.

ties + better LST score + significantly cheaper = WIN


Yeah, IUB is a non-starter. Moving to a random Midwest state to attend a random Midwest school when you're from TN makes no sense.

I'm also very leery of relying on a "SO" for cost of living and transplanting them across the country unless that other is very significant, but maybe it is like a spouse or something.


Even though Bloomington is considered Midwest, it is only 4 hours away from my home in Nashville. UT is 3 hours away, so distance isn't playing into my decision.


Now that I actually look at a map, I see how relatively close TN and IN are. For some reason I thought IN was further west. So yeah, definitely not transplanting anyone across the country.

You said you prefer to work in IN? What are your ties to that state?

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AT9
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby AT9 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:36 pm

I hadn't thought of them as peer schools before, but Tennessee and Indiana are pretty similar. Both are in similar sized states (16th and 17th largest in US), both are big public flagships, both compete with a regional powerhouse in the state (Notre Dame and Vandy), and both have similar employment prospects. With regional schools like this, I like to use the percentage of the class getting fed clerkships + percentage of students who get jobs in firms of 26+ attorneys (my "quality job" measurement). They're not making biglaw salaries, but those seem to be pretty good outcomes for schools that feed mid/small sized markets and I think it's a better measuring stick than fed clerkships + biglaw for schools of this sort. So with all that said...

-Tennessee give you a roughly 1/4 chance at the "quality job" factor I used above, Indiana gives you a 1/5 chance.
-Tennessee is $30K cheaper.
-Tennessee is your home state with presumably your strongest ties.
-Tennessee has a better overall employment score.
-(my opinion only) Tennessee seems to be on the rise or at least steady, whereas Indiana seems to be suffering a little lately.

I'd negotiate with both, but unless you really don't want to practice in Tennessee and/or really want to settle down in Indiana, I'd go with Tennessee. One of the more underrated schools, IMO.

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kellohitty
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby kellohitty » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:07 pm

BigZuck wrote:You said you prefer to work in IN? What are your ties to that state?


I think I would. To be honest, now I really don't know where I'd rather be... :(

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kellohitty
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby kellohitty » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:07 pm

AT9 wrote:I hadn't thought of them as peer schools before, but Tennessee and Indiana are pretty similar. Both are in similar sized states (16th and 17th largest in US), both are big public flagships, both compete with a regional powerhouse in the state (Notre Dame and Vandy), and both have similar employment prospects. With regional schools like this, I like to use the percentage of the class getting fed clerkships + percentage of students who get jobs in firms of 26+ attorneys (my "quality job" measurement). They're not making biglaw salaries, but those seem to be pretty good outcomes for schools that feed mid/small sized markets and I think it's a better measuring stick than fed clerkships + biglaw for schools of this sort. So with all that said...

-Tennessee give you a roughly 1/4 chance at the "quality job" factor I used above, Indiana gives you a 1/5 chance.
-Tennessee is $30K cheaper.
-Tennessee is your home state with presumably your strongest ties.
-Tennessee has a better overall employment score.
-(my opinion only) Tennessee seems to be on the rise or at least steady, whereas Indiana seems to be suffering a little lately.

I'd negotiate with both, but unless you really don't want to practice in Tennessee and/or really want to settle down in Indiana, I'd go with Tennessee. One of the more underrated schools, IMO.

Wow, thank you for your well thought out advice. It looks like the answer may be becoming clearer to me...

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shifty_eyed
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby shifty_eyed » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:21 pm

Why has nobody said retake? Take a year off, figure out where you want to settle down, retake, reapply.

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cron1834
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby cron1834 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:47 pm

kellohitty wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Nova wrote:IGNORE USNWR

Tennessee is the clear winner here.

ties + better LST score + significantly cheaper = WIN


Yeah, IUB is a non-starter. Moving to a random Midwest state to attend a random Midwest school when you're from TN makes no sense.

I'm also very leery of relying on a "SO" for cost of living and transplanting them across the country unless that other is very significant, but maybe it is like a spouse or something.


Even though Bloomington is considered Midwest, it is only 4 hours away from my home in Nashville. UT is 3 hours away, so distance isn't playing into my decision.


They may be close in geographic distance, but I'll bet any amount of money that the job situations, alumni networks, etc are quite dissimilar. Everyone seems to think UTK has the best argument here, and it's hard to disagree.

PS - is "UTK" a thing? Do people call it that? I'm a Yankee :D

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kellohitty
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby kellohitty » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:02 pm

cron1834 wrote:PS - is "UTK" a thing? Do people call it that? I'm a Yankee :D


Yes UTK is a thing. There are three different University of Tennessee's for undergrad; they are in Martin, Chattanooga, and Knoxville. Knoxville is the main campus and where the law school is located, hence UTK. :)

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deadpanic
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby deadpanic » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:18 am

kellohitty wrote:
cron1834 wrote:PS - is "UTK" a thing? Do people call it that? I'm a Yankee :D


Yes UTK is a thing. There are three different University of Tennessee's for undergrad; they are in Martin, Chattanooga, and Knoxville. Knoxville is the main campus and where the law school is located, hence UTK. :)


I'm a born and raised Tennessean and I just say UT FWIW.

I'm also a practicing attorney in TN. UT is best for East TN or Nashville. The Nashville market is pretty brutal as you may be aware. Big law is pretty much out of the question unless you happen to be around top 5%, maybe top 10% at the worst. Then you have a huge drop off and will have to fight for small firm jobs making 40k with graduates of the likes of Nashville School of Law (where, somehow, it has a decent reputation).

Chattanooga and Knoxville are both small legal markets and a bunch of UT grads try to stay in Knoxville and get gigs, but there isn't that much industry and thus, not enough legal jobs. I was shocked by how many people took the bar in Knoxville compared to Nashville & Memphis. All this being said, I don't think UT is a bad choice, but be ready to hustle pretty hard. There aren't many safe bets anymore, but this is a much better choice than IU.

PM me if you want more info. Good luck.

ETA - As others have said, neither is mobile. It used to be if you did really well at UT, as in the very top of the class, you had a shot at Atlanta or Charlotte. I don't know for sure, but it is probably safe to say that is not the case anymore.
Last edited by deadpanic on Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nova
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby Nova » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:21 am

UTA is also a thing.

University of Texas-Austin

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cotiger
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby cotiger » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:36 am

Nova wrote:UTA is also a thing.

University of Texas-Austin


Never heard of that in my life.

UTA = UT-Arlington
UTD = UT-Dallas
UTEP = UT-El Paso
UTSA = UT-San Antonio

UT-Austin is just UT.

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Nova
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby Nova » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:18 pm

cotiger wrote:
Nova wrote:UTA is also a thing.

University of Texas-Austin


Never heard of that in my life.

UTA = UT-Arlington
UTD = UT-Dallas
UTEP = UT-El Paso
UTSA = UT-San Antonio

UT-Austin is just UT.

really? I hear it all the time.

*shrug*

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cotiger
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby cotiger » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:31 pm

Nova wrote:
cotiger wrote:
Nova wrote:UTA is also a thing.

University of Texas-Austin


Never heard of that in my life.

UTA = UT-Arlington
UTD = UT-Dallas
UTEP = UT-El Paso
UTSA = UT-San Antonio

UT-Austin is just UT.

really? I hear it all the time.

*shrug*


Huh. Interesting. If you don't mind me asking, what part of TX are you from? I'm curious because I'm from DFW from a big UT family and have literally never heard (or seen) it called UTA before.

ETA: Sorry for off-tracking the thread.. back to normal Indiana v Tennessee programming

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Nova
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby Nova » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:50 pm

on topic

Id like to hear some reasoning from whoever picked Indiana in the poll

off topic

Grew up in DFW suburbs, then moved to the Midwest right after high school. My momma also graduated from UT-Austin. I mean, its pretty much universally understood that if you leave it at UT, you mean Austin. Although I have heard "oh, which one?" a good amount of times. & my UT friends sometimes say it to make sure everyone knows they go to the Harvard of Texas.

No one I know talks about Arlington unless their talking about 6 flags or the Cowboys.

kyle010723
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby kyle010723 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:07 pm

What I am really baffled with about this thread is why is IUB giving you 20,000/yr while TN is not going you a dime, that does not make sense to me. If you got into IUB with $$, presumably your credential is above median if not near the top for TN. I don't know anything about TN, just curious is all.

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deadpanic
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby deadpanic » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:36 pm

kyle010723 wrote:What I am really baffled with about this thread is why is IUB giving you 20,000/yr while TN is not going you a dime, that does not make sense to me. If you got into IUB with $$, presumably your credential is above median if not near the top for TN. I don't know anything about TN, just curious is all.


IU is more like a Minnesota or Alabama that plays the rankings game to get a meaningless 20-something ranking, so they throw out a ton of cash to either high GPA or high LSAT candidates. UT is like a lot of other state schools and doesn't dish out a ton of $$, especially to people already in-state.

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kellohitty
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby kellohitty » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:14 pm

deadpanic wrote:
kellohitty wrote:
cron1834 wrote:PS - is "UTK" a thing? Do people call it that? I'm a Yankee :D


Yes UTK is a thing. There are three different University of Tennessee's for undergrad; they are in Martin, Chattanooga, and Knoxville. Knoxville is the main campus and where the law school is located, hence UTK. :)


I'm a born and raised Tennessean and I just say UT FWIW.

I'm also a practicing attorney in TN. UT is best for East TN or Nashville. The Nashville market is pretty brutal as you may be aware. Big law is pretty much out of the question unless you happen to be around top 5%, maybe top 10% at the worst. Then you have a huge drop off and will have to fight for small firm jobs making 40k with graduates of the likes of Nashville School of Law (where, somehow, it has a decent reputation).

Chattanooga and Knoxville are both small legal markets and a bunch of UT grads try to stay in Knoxville and get gigs, but there isn't that much industry and thus, not enough legal jobs. I was shocked by how many people took the bar in Knoxville compared to Nashville & Memphis. All this being said, I don't think UT is a bad choice, but be ready to hustle pretty hard. There aren't many safe bets anymore, but this is a much better choice than IU.

PM me if you want more info. Good luck.

ETA - As others have said, neither is mobile. It used to be if you did really well at UT, as in the very top of the class, you had a shot at Atlanta or Charlotte. I don't know for sure, but it is probably safe to say that is not the case anymore.


I really appreciate your insider input!

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Nova
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby Nova » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:24 pm

deadpanic wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:What I am really baffled with about this thread is why is IUB giving you 20,000/yr while TN is not going you a dime, that does not make sense to me. If you got into IUB with $$, presumably your credential is above median if not near the top for TN. I don't know anything about TN, just curious is all.


IU is more like a Minnesota or Alabama that plays the rankings game to get a meaningless 20-something ranking, so they throw out a ton of cash to either high GPA or high LSAT candidates. UT is like a lot of other state schools and doesn't dish out a ton of $$, especially to people already in-state.

yeah don't be fooled by the schollys. schools with 50k tuition hand out 10-20k "scholarships" like candy.


tuition is whats important

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kellohitty
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Re: Indiana Bloomington with $$ or Tennessee (In-State)

Postby kellohitty » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:43 pm

Nova wrote:
yeah don't be fooled by the schollys. schools with 50k tuition hand out 10-20k "scholarships" like candy.




Well I feel significantly less of a special snowflake now. :lol:




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