Help me make a decision... Forum

[RLowry23]

Hey all. I am bored in the airport, about to get on a flight to Notre Dame and my mind is spinning about how to even make this law school decision. I know it's early, but I figured I could try to get some advice as early as possible.

Right now, I have narrowed down my choices to four (maybe five).

Schools:
Illinois - $73k estimated (full tuition scholarship, will try to negotiate living stipend later).
Temple - $51k estimated (full tuition scholarship, could negate much of the $51k by just living at home).
Wash U - $248k estimated ($5k per year, will try to get more but seems unlikely).
Notre Dame - $195k estimated (Scholarship offer pending, told I would be getting one).

I didn't calculate COA for U of Iowa because I am not really considering it, but I have a full tuition offer w/ RA position scholarship there too.

Financing:
Paying fully through loans. Family member has a percentage in a start-up company that is growing pretty rapidly, and when they sell he would very much be willing to help out but I am not banking on that whatsoever because how quickly things can change.

Location:
I am from the Philadelphia area, went to undergrad there but am not too stoked on returning to the city. However, I do have very strong ties to the legal community not necessarily ties that could get me a guaranteed job - but definitely the type of ties that could get me job interviews. I worry that if I go to Temple, thus forcing myself to settle into the Philadelphia area, that I will not be very happy. Currently, I live in Seattle doing a volunteer program and love it here - unfortunately, I was waitlisted at UW and I doubt they'd give me very much (if any) scholly $.

Additionally, I love Chicago. The idea of working in law there makes me incredibly happy and that is why my choices look the way they do (I also would consider Chicago-Kent, if I got full tuition and the Honors Scholar Program where you work directly with the Dean). No legal ties, though.

Career goals:
I want to work in government, preferably as a prosecutor or public defender (hoping to figure that out extremely early into law school). The idea of clerking somewhere first is exciting and is definitely something I would love to do.

LSAT/GPA:

So - these are my options right now.

Any advice would be awesome, thank you.

[Nova]

Appriciate the depth of your OP

ND/WUSTL are not worth close to that COA. Whether ND becomes a legit option depends on the scholly.

Illinois seems like TCR for your situation.

Retake in June to see if you should sit out for NU. Do Noodleys guide for retakers.

[BigZuck]

Totally agree with Nova, Illinois is the only one the makes sense and taking a full ride there is justifiable IMO. I also would retake June just for giggles and see what happens. If you score high enough, you might get better options that are worth sitting out a year for.

[Crowing]

Agreed that UIUC full ride seems like a decent choice for your sitch

I would not take Kent full ride over UIUC full ride even for Chicago

[jbagelboy]

TCR is get equity in & join your family members start up and work there as soon as it looks promising enough

[daleearnhardt123]

Casting a vote for Temple. While you may like Chicago more, you have no way of mitigating your living costs, and you have no legal connections. Temple for less (even if you DONT live at home) + the ties makes it the much safer choice.

Agreed that WUSTL shouldnt even be on the radar, and ND has to offer a lot to become viable.

[snowpeach06]

If I were you, I'd go to Illinois. No point in going to a school that will leave you trapped in an area you don't like just because it's cheap. And if you know you'll like Chicago, also no point in paying for the national schools.

[RLowry23]

Appriciate the depth of your OP

ND/WUSTL are not worth close to that COA. Whether ND becomes a legit option depends on the scholly.

Illinois seems like TCR for your situation.

Retake in June to see if you should sit out for NU. Do Noodleys guide for retakers.

Depth came from all the hanging around and not posing I do, always see people posting vague hypo's.

Thanks for the responses.

Would Chicago-Kent make any sense if I was an "Honors Scholar"?

I figured UIUC was my best bet. I was sort of surprised that it wasn't just "Temple".

Thanks for the thoughts and if anyone else has more thoughts, please contribute!

[ManoftheHour]

I second Nova's post. I'd put down my deposit at Illinois. In the meantime, I'd study for the June LSAT. If you do well, F#$% Illinois, sit out a cycle, reapply, and enjoy NU at a discount. If you suck balls in June, that's okay. You're going to Illinois with a full ride and you maxed out your retakes. Nothing more you can do about that. No doubts left. You literally gave it your all and put yourself in the best position possible.

[swampman]

Casting a vote for Temple. While you may like Chicago more, you have no way of mitigating your living costs, and you have no legal connections. Temple for less (even if you DONT live at home) + the ties makes it the much safer choice.

Agreed that WUSTL shouldnt even be on the radar, and ND has to offer a lot to become viable.

Also, the Philadelphia District Attorney is a Temple grad and Temple grads, epecially with strong Philly connections, reportedly do very well there. Temple seems like a much less risky choice overall.

But if you'll be miserable in Philly then you'll be miserable in Philly, go with Illinois.

[LET'S GET IT]

As it stands currently, it's really a choice between Illinois or not going to law school, at least not this cycle. The other options just don't seem like good ideas at this point. I think Illinois w/ full tuition is a really solid option, especially considering you would like to end up in Chicago.

[RLowry23]

Thanks for the advice, toured Notre Dame today and loved it so hope somehow they throw a ton of $$$ my way.

[JJ123]

Illinois.

[star fox]

UIUC is giving out full rides to those numbers these days? Dang that Dean Pless stuff must have really hit hard. They only initially offered me a half scholly with a 3.87 and 167 last year...

I'd say go there given career goals and that full ride. Chambana is a cheap place to live too. Get some roommates and you don't need to pay more than 500 a month in rent.

[superflush]

Either Illinois or ND.

[Over the top]

It's tough to make a decision w/o hearing from ND. If it's ND at sticker vs Illinois, no question, Illinois.

[superflush]

Right. See what ND has for you. Hopefully you are not up against a deadline with U of I.

[Over the top]

What would make ND worth it for OP over Illinois? OP mentioned clerking and ND seems to do much better than it's rank suggests for clerkships.

[Tiago Splitter]

What would make ND worth it for OP over Illinois? OP mentioned clerking and ND seems to do much better than it's rank suggests for clerkships.

ND's clerkship placement is better, but clerkships are pretty unlikely from either school. Overall Biglaw/Fed clerk placement for the class of 2012 showed ND with a slight lead at 31% to 24%, but that was before Illinois significantly decreased its class size. I don't it's worth paying much more for ND.

[RLowry23]

Got ND's offer, it's 12k per year.

I got 20k per year from W&L and 25k per year from IUB so I may try to throw those offers at them to get some more $ (may also try to throw ND's offer to WashU to get a little more of a discount).

I visit UIUC in March, only deadline I am facing is their April 15th deposit deadline.

To the comment about ND's clerkship rate. That is why I was strongly considering ND but after the visit, I think I realized their clerkship rate being relatively higher comes from it also being more conservative than most schools - conservative judges like ND. I am not conservative, so I don't know how much of a benefit it would have for me.

Also, I feel like my angst towards Temple/Philly in my OP may have been too extreme. I think I would be content in Philadelphia, just having lived there for my whole life makes it less appealing to me.

Thank you all for all the advice, again. I hope that it continues as I try to make the best decision.

[Over the top]

It sounds like you're a bit unsure where you want to end up. A full ride at either school isn't bad if you're not married to big law and don't mind living in that town. I would push harder on Notre Dame, see if they won't go a bit more, you're at their LSAT median and a bit below their GPA median. FWIW, I retook in June before I went to school and went up a few points which resulted in alot more money. Something to consider.

Frankly I'd be concerned with UIIC since it has been freefalling as a result of the fun and games played by the admission office. Temple seems to be okay for PA, especially if you're looking for State government work since you'll be competing with fewer Penn grads (who tend to self-select into biglaw).

[superflush]

If you love Chicago though, I wouldn't settle for Temple.

[Over the top]

If you love Chicago though, I wouldn't settle for Temple.

Sure, it's a matter of location. Both can land you a PD job but only in their respective market.

[kingjones59]

With how scary the job market is even at a t14, I couldn't imagine cutting my chances in atleast half by going to any of these schools, even on a scholarship

[Nova]

With how scary the job market is even at a t14, I couldn't imagine cutting my chances in atleast half by going to any of these schools, even on a scholarship

OP doesn't want a 160k firm job...