Battle of the Washingtons!

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cron1834
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby cron1834 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:20 am

How have you not applied to WUSTL? To apply at 3/4 Washingtons is offensive.

Also, UW is stingy as fuck unless you are in Gates territory, which you aren't.

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Icecold62
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Icecold62 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:26 am

cron1834 wrote:How have you not applied to WUSTL? To apply at 3/4 Washingtons is offensive



I couldn't live in St Louis, lol sorry.

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Icecold62
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Icecold62 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:28 am

And the Gates Scholarship is for those who go into the public sector anyways.

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yossarian
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby yossarian » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:28 am

Icecold62 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:How have you not applied to WUSTL? To apply at 3/4 Washingtons is offensive



I couldn't live in St Louis, lol sorry.


But you could live in Lexington, VA?

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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Jchance » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:55 am

Icecold62 wrote:Finally, on this page we tend to speak of averages and medians. They are the best estimates we can come by, true. But frankly if you are aiming for median then this is the wrong field anyways. That's my thought process at least.


Ok, 0L-Harvey-Spector, everyone (think non-t14, which is ur situation right now) comes into law school thinking they'd end up in top 10%, and I guarantee you, they do aim for top 10%. Reality is that 90% of them wont get there. No1 aims for median, but wait until you get median pawned (or even lower), you'd wish u were at t14

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cron1834
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby cron1834 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:33 am

Icecold62 wrote:And the Gates Scholarship is for those who go into the public sector anyways.


That's additional evidence they're not handing you any $$. I'm above both 75s and they won't give me jack.

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Icecold62
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Icecold62 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:00 am

yossarian71 wrote:
Icecold62 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:How have you not applied to WUSTL? To apply at 3/4 Washingtons is offensive



I couldn't live in St Louis, lol sorry.


But you could live in Lexington, VA?



Lol that application was on a bit of a whim to be fair.

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Icecold62
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Icecold62 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:04 am

cron1834 wrote:
Icecold62 wrote:And the Gates Scholarship is for those who go into the public sector anyways.


That's additional evidence they're not handing you any $$. I'm above both 75s and they won't give me jack.


You almost seem bitter, but will just have to see

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cron1834
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby cron1834 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:49 am

Icecold62 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:
Icecold62 wrote:And the Gates Scholarship is for those who go into the public sector anyways.


That's additional evidence they're not handing you any $$. I'm above both 75s and they won't give me jack.


You almost seem bitter, but will just have to see


I'm not. They're known for being sTTTingy. I live in the PNW and have friends who graduated here - it's just a known fact. They've been able to get away with it b/c they're the best school in an 800-mile radius.

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Icecold62
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Icecold62 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:06 am

Jchance wrote:
Icecold62 wrote:Finally, on this page we tend to speak of averages and medians. They are the best estimates we can come by, true. But frankly if you are aiming for median then this is the wrong field anyways. That's my thought process at least.


Ok, 0L-Harvey-Spector, everyone (think non-t14, which is ur situation right now) comes into law school thinking they'd end up in top 10%, and I guarantee you, they do aim for top 10%. Reality is that 90% of them wont get there. No1 aims for median, but wait until you get median pawned (or even lower), you'd wish u were at t14


Wait, 90% of the class doesn't make the top ten percent? Mind blowing. My poor Econ students had a prof who apparently doesn't understand basic statistics . But I will take your word that the numbers add up.

I get it. I do. Although I might question if median at #14 is really that much better than median at #17 or #21 (USC and GW I believe). Or if it would be easier to rank higher at a lower ranked school. But frankly I do understand that the odds favor t14.

Frankly in the northwest there are what, four schools above UW? Two in the t14? And let's say that my gpa precludes me from t6 schools (not impossible, although my gpa is horribly misleading). Then what? Stanford and Berkeley are out then. Georgetown at sticker? Hope the influence carries over to the PNW?

A year off equates to (on a very sub median estimate) a loss of at least $60,000, plus interest. So unless the difference between my tuition offer is over $20,000 higher than what it would be with a better LSAT then really retaking would be a poor decision.

It seems odd to me that this many bright (granted an assumption) people have not yet looked harder at the numbers, thought of autocorrelation and selection bias. I mean no disrespect to the amazing schools around and let's be fair, if Stanford calls me I will be elated (stretch is an understatement I know). I know far too many attorneys who are wildly successful that went to schools ranked sub-50 to believe that you can only be successful at t14. I will be successful, it's just a question of how.

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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Icecold62 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:08 am

cron1834 wrote:
Icecold62 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:
Icecold62 wrote:And the Gates Scholarship is for those who go into the public sector anyways.


That's additional evidence they're not handing you any $$. I'm above both 75s and they won't give me jack.


You almost seem bitter, but will just have to see


I'm not. They're known for being sTTTingy. I live in the PNW and have friends who graduated here - it's just a known fact. They've been able to get away with it b/c they're the best school in an 800-mile radius.


Ya, I understand that, at least in state is nice, it makes UW a lot cheaper. I mean I would love them to match the 30k Lewis and Clark gave me, but the tuition is doable even with only a light scholarship.

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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Kimikho » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:58 am

Icecold62 wrote:
Jchance wrote:
Icecold62 wrote:Finally, on this page we tend to speak of averages and medians. They are the best estimates we can come by, true. But frankly if you are aiming for median then this is the wrong field anyways. That's my thought process at least.


Ok, 0L-Harvey-Spector, everyone (think non-t14, which is ur situation right now) comes into law school thinking they'd end up in top 10%, and I guarantee you, they do aim for top 10%. Reality is that 90% of them wont get there. No1 aims for median, but wait until you get median pawned (or even lower), you'd wish u were at t14


Wait, 90% of the class doesn't make the top ten percent? Mind blowing. My poor Econ students had a prof who apparently doesn't understand basic statistics . But I will take your word that the numbers add up.

I get it. I do. Although I might question if median at #14 is really that much better than median at #17 or #21 (USC and GW I believe). Or if it would be easier to rank higher at a lower ranked school. But frankly I do understand that the odds favor t14.

Frankly in the northwest there are what, four schools above UW? Two in the t14? And let's say that my gpa precludes me from t6 schools (not impossible, although my gpa is horribly misleading). Then what? Stanford and Berkeley are out then. Georgetown at sticker? Hope the influence carries over to the PNW?

A year off equates to (on a very sub median estimate) a loss of at least $60,000, plus interest. So unless the difference between my tuition offer is over $20,000 higher than what it would be with a better LSAT then really retaking would be a poor decision.

It seems odd to me that this many bright (granted an assumption) people have not yet looked harder at the numbers, thought of autocorrelation and selection bias. I mean no disrespect to the amazing schools around and let's be fair, if Stanford calls me I will be elated (stretch is an understatement I know). I know far too many attorneys who are wildly successful that went to schools ranked sub-50 to believe that you can only be successful at t14. I will be successful, it's just a question of how.


I had a longer post written out but I just can't even.

1.) Glassdoor pegs econ professors to making $60,000/year. So unless you are an unemployed economics professor, in which I certainly could believe, you break even on sitting out a year.

2.) Sit out, retake, apply to Northwestern.

3.) Go read the "got my grades, T20, should I drop out?" threads for a realistic perspective.

4.) You may think you can break 10%, but so does every student at all the schools you have been accepted to, and so far, more than 75% of them have a better academic track record than you have.

HTH.

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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Jchance » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:13 am

Icecold62 wrote:
Jchance wrote:
Icecold62 wrote:Finally, on this page we tend to speak of averages and medians. They are the best estimates we can come by, true. But frankly if you are aiming for median then this is the wrong field anyways. That's my thought process at least.


Ok, 0L-Harvey-Spector, everyone (think non-t14, which is ur situation right now) comes into law school thinking they'd end up in top 10%, and I guarantee you, they do aim for top 10%. Reality is that 90% of them wont get there. No1 aims for median, but wait until you get median pawned (or even lower), you'd wish u were at t14


Wait, 90% of the class doesn't make the top ten percent? Mind blowing. My poor Econ students had a prof who apparently doesn't understand basic statistics . But I will take your word that the numbers add up.

I get it. I do. Although I might question if median at #14 is really that much better than median at #17 or #21 (USC and GW I believe). Or if it would be easier to rank higher at a lower ranked school. But frankly I do understand that the odds favor t14.

Frankly in the northwest there are what, four schools above UW? Two in the t14? And let's say that my gpa precludes me from t6 schools (not impossible, although my gpa is horribly misleading). Then what? Stanford and Berkeley are out then. Georgetown at sticker? Hope the influence carries over to the PNW?

A year off equates to (on a very sub median estimate) a loss of at least $60,000, plus interest. So unless the difference between my tuition offer is over $20,000 higher than what it would be with a better LSAT then really retaking would be a poor decision.

It seems odd to me that this many bright (granted an assumption) people have not yet looked harder at the numbers, thought of autocorrelation and selection bias. I mean no disrespect to the amazing schools around and let's be fair, if Stanford calls me I will be elated (stretch is an understatement I know). I know far too many attorneys who are wildly successful that went to schools ranked sub-50 to believe that you can only be successful at t14. I will be successful, it's just a question of how.


The economy has changed, 0L, those attorneys were either pre-ITE or dino-old. Ask the attorneys, or yet, should I say unemployed law grads post-ITE, and you will get the reality. The ones who know the market best are the current 2Ls and 3Ls.

Median at t14: you might get a BigLaw job; median at t17/t21, you can hustle your butt off and hope for a legal job. And let me assure you, competition is fierce everywhere, even at T2 schools.

If you get paid $60k/year now with a GPA 3.3, for the sake of god, dont go to law school and ruin ur life financially.

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Icecold62
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Icecold62 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:04 pm

scoobers wrote:
Icecold62 wrote:
Jchance wrote:
Icecold62 wrote:Finally, on this page we tend to speak of averages and medians. They are the best estimates we can come by, true. But frankly if you are aiming for median then this is the wrong field anyways. That's my thought process at least.


Ok, 0L-Harvey-Spector, everyone (think non-t14, which is ur situation right now) comes into law school thinking they'd end up in top 10%, and I guarantee you, they do aim for top 10%. Reality is that 90% of them wont get there. No1 aims for median, but wait until you get median pawned (or even lower), you'd wish u were at t14


Wait, 90% of the class doesn't make the top ten percent? Mind blowing. My poor Econ students had a prof who apparently doesn't understand basic statistics . But I will take your word that the numbers add up.

I get it. I do. Although I might question if median at #14 is really that much better than median at #17 or #21 (USC and GW I believe). Or if it would be easier to rank higher at a lower ranked school. But frankly I do understand that the odds favor t14.

Frankly in the northwest there are what, four schools above UW? Two in the t14? And let's say that my gpa precludes me from t6 schools (not impossible, although my gpa is horribly misleading). Then what? Stanford and Berkeley are out then. Georgetown at sticker? Hope the influence carries over to the PNW?

A year off equates to (on a very sub median estimate) a loss of at least $60,000, plus interest. So unless the difference between my tuition offer is over $20,000 higher than what it would be with a better LSAT then really retaking would be a poor decision.

It seems odd to me that this many bright (granted an assumption) people have not yet looked harder at the numbers, thought of autocorrelation and selection bias. I mean no disrespect to the amazing schools around and let's be fair, if Stanford calls me I will be elated (stretch is an understatement I know). I know far too many attorneys who are wildly successful that went to schools ranked sub-50 to believe that you can only be successful at t14. I will be successful, it's just a question of how.


I had a longer post written out but I just can't even.

1.) Glassdoor pegs econ professors to making $60,000/year. So unless you are an unemployed economics professor, in which I certainly could believe, you break even on sitting out a year.

2.) Sit out, retake, apply to Northwestern.

3.) Go read the "got my grades, T20, should I drop out?" threads for a realistic perspective.

4.) You may think you can break 10%, but so does every student at all the schools you have been accepted to, and so far, more than 75% of them have a better academic track record than you have.

HTH.


That, was a good response. The teaching was past-tense. I took over for a prof who went to France after a family emergency. I was still a student. Similar to a TA (only barely different). That was more of a tongue in cheek point anyway.

I appreciate the help and concern. This has helped me think harder and change some ideas I held. I do think I can break top ten percent, even top five. Granted I can agree that most of us do. Thus, it probably counts for almost nothing. My GPA really proves almost nothing but that's a different story. All in all even worst case, I come out of UW with a JD. I should be able to swing debt free and thus it is a risk, I will not doubt that, but it's one I want to take.

Unless I get a call... Then this all gets more interesting.

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cron1834
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby cron1834 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:00 pm

Icecold62 wrote:
scoobers wrote:
Icecold62 wrote:
Jchance wrote:
It seems odd to me that this many bright (granted an assumption) people have not yet looked harder at the numbers, thought of autocorrelation and selection bias. I mean no disrespect to the amazing schools around and let's be fair, if Stanford calls me I will be elated (stretch is an understatement I know). I know far too many attorneys who are wildly successful that went to schools ranked sub-50 to believe that you can only be successful at t14. I will be successful, it's just a question of how.


I had a longer post written out but I just can't even.

1.) Glassdoor pegs econ professors to making $60,000/year. So unless you are an unemployed economics professor, in which I certainly could believe, you break even on sitting out a year.

2.) Sit out, retake, apply to Northwestern.

3.) Go read the "got my grades, T20, should I drop out?" threads for a realistic perspective.

4.) You may think you can break 10%, but so does every student at all the schools you have been accepted to, and so far, more than 75% of them have a better academic track record than you have.

HTH.


That, was a good response. The teaching was past-tense. I took over for a prof who went to France after a family emergency. I was still a student. Similar to a TA (only barely different). That was more of a tongue in cheek point anyway.

I appreciate the help and concern. This has helped me think harder and change some ideas I held. I do think I can break top ten percent, even top five. Granted I can agree that most of us do. Thus, it probably counts for almost nothing. My GPA really proves almost nothing but that's a different story. All in all even worst case, I come out of UW with a JD. I should be able to swing debt free and thus it is a risk, I will not doubt that, but it's one I want to take.

Unless I get a call... Then this all gets more interesting.


You are correct that EVERYBODY THINKS THAT. And they can't all be right - but some of them will be! You're going to have classmates that are smarter than you, and you're going to have classmates that work harder than you. This isn't meant to be insulting, but if you couldn't get top 5% on the LSAT, and if UW is much better than the median law school, that would suggest you have loooong odds for getting top 5% of your class. One might go so far as to predict a 5% chance :wink:

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Icecold62
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Icecold62 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:18 pm

Icecold62 wrote:
scoobers wrote:
Icecold62 wrote:
Jchance wrote:
It seems odd to me that this many bright (granted an assumption) people have not yet looked harder at the numbers, thought of autocorrelation and selection bias. I mean no disrespect to the amazing schools around and let's be fair, if Stanford calls me I will be elated (stretch is an understatement I know). I know far too many attorneys who are wildly successful that went to schools ranked sub-50 to believe that you can only be successful at t14. I will be successful, it's just a question of how.


I had a longer post written out but I just can't even.

1.) Glassdoor pegs econ professors to making $60,000/year. So unless you are an unemployed economics professor, in which I certainly could believe, you break even on sitting out a year.

2.) Sit out, retake, apply to Northwestern.

3.) Go read the "got my grades, T20, should I drop out?" threads for a realistic perspective.

4.) You may think you can break 10%, but so does every student at all the schools you have been accepted to, and so far, more than 75% of them have a better academic track record than you have.

HTH.


That, was a good response. The teaching was past-tense. I took over for a prof who went to France after a family emergency. I was still a student. Similar to a TA (only barely different). That was more of a tongue in cheek point anyway.

I appreciate the help and concern. This has helped me think harder and change some ideas I held. I do think I can break top ten percent, even top five. Granted I can agree that most of us do. Thus, it probably counts for almost nothing. My GPA really proves almost nothing but that's a different story. All in all even worst case, I come out of UW with a JD. I should be able to swing debt free and thus it is a risk, I will not doubt that, but it's one I want to take.

Unless I get a call... Then this all gets more interesting.


You are correct that EVERYBODY THINKS THAT. And they can't all be right - but some of them will be! You're going to have classmates that are smarter than you, and you're going to have classmates that work harder than you. This isn't meant to be insulting, but if you couldn't get top 5% on the LSAT, and if UW is much better than the median law school, that would suggest you have loooong odds for getting top 5% of your class. One might go so far as to predict a 5% chance :wink:[/quote]

But with two months of studying I did get top 9%? So..... Lol I like your math though

BigZuck
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby BigZuck » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:35 pm

OP- I'm trying to figure out where your supreme confidence that you will do well in law school comes from.

Is it your stellar undergraduate record?

Or is it based on all the great grades you got while taking law school classes?

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Icecold62
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Icecold62 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:37 pm

BigZuck wrote:OP- I'm trying to figure out where your supreme confidence that you will do well in law school comes from.

Is it your stellar undergraduate record?

Or is it based on all the great grades you got while taking law school classes?


Both! :) Clearly....

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Icecold62
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Icecold62 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:39 pm

And my mom tells me I am really smart.

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Fiero85
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Fiero85 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:14 pm

cron1834 wrote:But with two months of studying I did get top 9%? So..... Lol I like your math though


Are you taking pride in under-preparing for a test that is worth six figures or more in scholarships and in the long run?

Don't be a dick to people who are trying to help you, with much more current info than most practicing attorneys have about a drastically changing field.

If you can go to UW cheap that's fine. The other schools listed are bad ideas for PNW area.

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Icecold62
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Icecold62 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:34 pm

Fiero85 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:But with two months of studying I did get top 9%? So..... Lol I like your math though


Are you taking pride in under-preparing for a test that is worth six figures or more in scholarships and in the long run?

Don't be a dick to people who are trying to help you, with much more current info than most practicing attorneys have about a drastically changing field.

If you can go to UW cheap that's fine. The other schools listed are bad ideas for PNW area.


I never meant to be "a dick". Sorry if I came across as such. Humor and self confidence when going against the grain can be seen as poor form, I wish no disrespect to those who have posted, hence the thank you's. I am not boasting on my prep for the LSAT, I felt that two months was sufficient, I also felt ok (although a little let down) with a 165. All in all this is board that has helped me to thresh out ideas and come to conclusions. Although I can be sarcastic and confident I hope not to be misconstrued in my objectives or regard to which I hold those who have responded.

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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby ManoftheHour » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:37 pm

Fiero85 wrote:Don't be a dick


He's not. He's just...ice cold.

:lol:

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yossarian
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby yossarian » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:40 pm

ManoftheHour wrote:
Fiero85 wrote:Don't be a dick


He's not. He's just...ice cold.

:lol:


It's cooler than being cool.

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Icecold62
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Icecold62 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:45 pm

yossarian71 wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:
Fiero85 wrote:Don't be a dick


He's not. He's just...ice cold.

:lol:


It's cooler than being cool.



Love it

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Fiero85
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Re: Battle of the Washingtons!

Postby Fiero85 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:56 pm

Icecold62 wrote:
Fiero85 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:But with two months of studying I did get top 9%? So..... Lol I like your math though


Are you taking pride in under-preparing for a test that is worth six figures or more in scholarships and in the long run?

Don't be a dick to people who are trying to help you, with much more current info than most practicing attorneys have about a drastically changing field.

If you can go to UW cheap that's fine. The other schools listed are bad ideas for PNW area.


I never meant to be "a dick". Sorry if I came across as such. Humor and self confidence when going against the grain can be seen as poor form, I wish no disrespect to those who have posted, hence the thank you's. I am not boasting on my prep for the LSAT, I felt that two months was sufficient, I also felt ok (although a little let down) with a 165. All in all this is board that has helped me to thresh out ideas and come to conclusions. Although I can be sarcastic and confident I hope not to be misconstrued in my objectives or regard to which I hold those who have responded.


Apology accepted, no worries man. I'll admit after re-reading: earlier in the thread you were fine, just thought your recent tone was a bit dimissive. Online sarcasm can be a tricky beast as well, I know.

Good luck with your decision, I think you have already come to the correct conclusion that for your purposes, UW>>>GW and W&L. Keep your costs down and try hard for that top of the class. Confidence on here is fine, but be prepared for ridicule from some. And I'm hoping you know to tone it down a notch in person once you get to LS :wink:

Cheers




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