Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

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scootsy
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Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby scootsy » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:59 pm

Simply curious. It's near blasphemy for me to even mention these schools, as I won't be able to attend any of them, but I am curious as to which of the schools, if any, are worth attending at sticker price.
Last edited by scootsy on Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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twenty
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are owrth sticker price?

Postby twenty » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:03 pm

Depends on soooooo many things.

For a liberal arts grad from a regional school with a 2.8 GPA and a 178 LSAT, I'd definitely recommend NU at sticker. For a Stanford grad working in IB making 100k a year with a 4.0 and a 163 LSAT, there's no way NU is worth sticker.

scootsy
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are owrth sticker price?

Postby scootsy » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:05 pm

Any demotion or punishment for misspelling a word in the topic title?

If not, will commence self-flagellation shortly.

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Clearly
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby Clearly » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:50 pm

HYSCCNP

californiauser
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby californiauser » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:53 pm

Clearly wrote:HYSCCNP

Image

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Winston1984
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby Winston1984 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:21 pm

Taking the kind of people twenty mentioned out of the equation. HYS would be it for me. Unless you could live at home or with a significant other and not have to take out loans for living expenses. In that case, almost all could be argued.

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star fox
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby star fox » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:05 pm

The debt is freaking absurd. The legal hiring market has been this way since what.. 2008? Obviously, everyone isn't getting big law to justify the costs with future earning power...... Damn it.

03152016
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby 03152016 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:17 am

Like twenty said, there's no black and white answer. Your numbers, your current job prospects, and your goals are all pertinent.

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Tanicius
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby Tanicius » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:18 am

Wouldn't have taken Berkeley at sticker with the plan of gunning for Biglaw. Don't think MVP or even NYU are worth it at sticker for Biglaw either.

pcthenls
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby pcthenls » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:21 am

What about PI/GOV? Michigan or GT worth it for the LRAP?

03152016
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby 03152016 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:24 am

Tanicius wrote:Wouldn't have taken Berkeley at sticker with the plan of gunning for Biglaw. Don't think MVP or even NYU are worth it at sticker for Biglaw either.

How about Columbia?

BigZuck
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby BigZuck » Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:18 am

I do not want to rehash this debate again. I do not want anyone else to do it either. I do prefer using the search function as opposed to starting another thread that has been beaten to death already.

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2014
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby 2014 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:02 am

HYSChi

daleearnhardt123
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby daleearnhardt123 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:44 am

Is even guaranteed biglaw worth >250k? I guess it's a matter of opportunity cost, and what you're giving up to go (i.e. giving up waiting tables makes more sense than giving up a secure managerial or accounting position where you are making >50k at age 23-25).

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that I don't think biglaw alone is worth >250k, even if it's guaranteed. I think that because of this, HYS are only justifiable at sticker because of the OTHER doors that they can realistically open for you above and beyond biglaw (academia for instance, or some of the more elite fedgov jobs).

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BmoreOrLess
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby BmoreOrLess » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:55 am

daleearnhardt123 wrote:a secure managerial or accounting position where you are making >50k at age 23-25).


These jobs are very similar to the mythical 90k midlaw positions.

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PepperJack
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby PepperJack » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:00 pm

Personally, I think they all are if (1) your other options have sub-50k starting salaries and (2) you're mentally capable of working your ass off, and forming quid pro quo relationships with peers to assist in the competition. Law school offers many places to opt out. As long as you never place your self worth on anything but how you work, it's easy to cut bait. If you wind up in the top quarter, you're now very likely to have made a good decision.

daleearnhardt123
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby daleearnhardt123 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:02 pm

BmoreOrLess wrote:
daleearnhardt123 wrote:a secure managerial or accounting position where you are making >50k at age 23-25).


These jobs are very similar to the mythical 90k midlaw positions.



I think that's a bit of an exaggeration insofar as I can identify plenty of friends who hold these positions whereas i don't think ive ever even HEARD of someone occupying the 90k midlaw position.

If your point is that they're not easy to get (especially at that age and with just a ugrad degree) then point taken. But I don't think it's fair to characterize them as "mythical" and lump them into the same category as something which very well may not even exist.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby jenesaislaw » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:05 pm

^That would seem to especially be the case for when we consider the people who get into the top law schools.

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PepperJack
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby PepperJack » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:10 pm

daleearnhardt123 wrote:
BmoreOrLess wrote:
daleearnhardt123 wrote:a secure managerial or accounting position where you are making >50k at age 23-25).


These jobs are very similar to the mythical 90k midlaw positions.



I think that's a bit of an exaggeration insofar as I can identify plenty of friends who hold these positions whereas i don't think ive ever even HEARD of someone occupying the 90k midlaw position.

If your point is that they're not easy to get (especially at that age and with just a ugrad degree) then point taken. But I don't think it's fair to characterize them as "mythical" and lump them into the same category as something which very well may not even exist.

Yeah, they do exist but are few and far between. I think the reason why it's so rare to hear about on here is because you only get these after OCI in most cases, and most who strikeout at OCI don't have the grades to get interviewed. They're probably more competitive in the sense most rich kids prefer 90k for 40 hrs a week than 120-160 for 80, and most students are upper middle class-upper class.

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patogordo
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby patogordo » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:14 pm

daleearnhardt123 wrote:Is even guaranteed biglaw worth >250k? I guess it's a matter of opportunity cost, and what you're giving up to go (i.e. giving up waiting tables makes more sense than giving up a secure managerial or accounting position where you are making >50k at age 23-25).

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that I don't think biglaw alone is worth >250k, even if it's guaranteed. I think that because of this, HYS are only justifiable at sticker because of the OTHER doors that they can realistically open for you above and beyond biglaw (academia for instance, or some of the more elite fedgov jobs).

As someone with biglaw and 250k debt, let me be the first to tell you that it is not worth it.

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PepperJack
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby PepperJack » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:20 pm

patogordo wrote:
daleearnhardt123 wrote:Is even guaranteed biglaw worth >250k? I guess it's a matter of opportunity cost, and what you're giving up to go (i.e. giving up waiting tables makes more sense than giving up a secure managerial or accounting position where you are making >50k at age 23-25).

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that I don't think biglaw alone is worth >250k, even if it's guaranteed. I think that because of this, HYS are only justifiable at sticker because of the OTHER doors that they can realistically open for you above and beyond biglaw (academia for instance, or some of the more elite fedgov jobs).

As someone with biglaw and 250k debt, let me be the first to tell you that it is not worth it.

Why not? I think many biglaw people assume they'd succeed in other fields when there's no evidence they would.

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BmoreOrLess
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby BmoreOrLess » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:22 pm

I don't know anyone who had a managerial position that paid $50k+ at 25. I'm 27, and people are just starting to get these. I'm probably 2 years away from a real management position (I'm responsible for making sure people get there shit done, but not an actual 'manager').

Big4 accounting gets around $50k, but also work biglaw hours for a good portion of the year. My roommate is an auditor at EY, and I'll go weeks not hearing him come home on weekdays.

It has just seemed like in my experience over the past 5 years since graduating, for entry level stuff (22-25 year olds), a bimodal salary distribution exists for college grads. Most of my friends were either around $80k+ IB analysts or consultants, or were $30k-$40k desk jockeys in dead end jobs. Also, the only real way to get raises in these types of jobs (like mine) is lateraling back and forth between companies.

Edit: Sales bros seem to be doing OK if they're good at what they do, but they don't seem to be balling either. This also has the least job security tho.
Last edited by BmoreOrLess on Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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patogordo
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby patogordo » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:23 pm

PepperJack wrote:
patogordo wrote:
daleearnhardt123 wrote:Is even guaranteed biglaw worth >250k? I guess it's a matter of opportunity cost, and what you're giving up to go (i.e. giving up waiting tables makes more sense than giving up a secure managerial or accounting position where you are making >50k at age 23-25).

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that I don't think biglaw alone is worth >250k, even if it's guaranteed. I think that because of this, HYS are only justifiable at sticker because of the OTHER doors that they can realistically open for you above and beyond biglaw (academia for instance, or some of the more elite fedgov jobs).

As someone with biglaw and 250k debt, let me be the first to tell you that it is not worth it.

Why not? I think many biglaw people assume they'd succeed in other fields when there's no evidence they would.

lol wut

because I'm not likely to last more than a few years in biglaw which will barely put a dent in my loans, bro, not because I think I'd be a billionaire if I'd stayed out of law school.

daleearnhardt123
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby daleearnhardt123 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:37 pm

BmoreOrLess wrote:I don't know anyone who had a managerial position that paid $50k+ at 25. I'm 27, and people are just starting to get these. I'm probably 2 years away from a real management position (I'm responsible for making sure people get there shit done, but not an actual 'manager').

Big4 accounting gets around $50k, but also work biglaw hours for a good portion of the year. My roommate is an auditor at EY, and I'll go weeks not hearing him come home on weekdays.

It has just seemed like in my experience over the past 5 years since graduating, for entry level stuff (22-25 year olds), a bimodal salary distribution exists for college grads. Most of my friends were either around $80k+ IB analysts or consultants, or were $30k-$40k desk jockeys in dead end jobs. Also, the only real way to get raises in these types of jobs (like mine) is lateraling back and forth between companies.

Edit: Sales bros seem to be doing OK if they're good at what they do, but they don't seem to be balling either. This also has the least job security tho.


I have about half a dozen friends aged 23-26 right now who graduated from a middling state university without stellar grades and are in some sort of secure job making >50k. Accounting, some shade of consulting, or engineering. There's little point in derailing this thread with a discussion about the availability of such jobs, and I'll be the first to admit that # of people who get them are dwarfed by the # who don't, but, I think it'd be silly to have a discussion about the viability of T14 at sticker without heavily weighing opportunity cost.

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BmoreOrLess
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Re: Which of the T14 schools are worth sticker price?

Postby BmoreOrLess » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:48 pm

Fair enough, I just don't think there is that much of a difference in the opportunity costs of jobs that people in their 20's (particularly early 20's) have. Obviously there is for the high level work (IB Analysts, consultants, engineers, maybe big4 accounting), but if you're not in this class of work I think the opportunity costs aren't really huge. To me, it's just a matter of the risk of joblessness/debtor's prison, but that's the same whether you're a K-JD, Starbucks Barista, or F500 peon like me.




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