Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

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Otunga
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby Otunga » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:27 pm

anyriotgirl wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:The fuck does female have to do with this?


I think he meant the females are socialized to be less confident in their academic ability, not they're innately less capable. I think there have been studies done to show that girls in class are much more likely to use qualifiers/hesitate when answering a question ("Well, I think..." or "I guess..." or "something like...") than boys are, even when they're actually pretty sure they have the right answer.


I'm a girl and I do that. I know that I'm right, but for some reason people find women being right and knowing off-putting, so I quash my inner Hermione and play their game.


Play it at OCI but otherwise, fuck that. I'd probably be a super-angry feminist if I were female.

rebexness
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby rebexness » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:29 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:The fuck does female have to do with this?


I think he meant the females are socialized to be less confident in their academic ability, not they're innately less capable. I think there have been studies done to show that girls in class are much more likely to use qualifiers/hesitate when answering a question ("Well, I think..." or "I guess..." or "something like...") than boys are, even when they're actually pretty sure they have the right answer.


JFC how many stereotypical movies have you been watching?

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anyriotgirl
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby anyriotgirl » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:30 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
anyriotgirl wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:The fuck does female have to do with this?


I think he meant the females are socialized to be less confident in their academic ability, not they're innately less capable. I think there have been studies done to show that girls in class are much more likely to use qualifiers/hesitate when answering a question ("Well, I think..." or "I guess..." or "something like...") than boys are, even when they're actually pretty sure they have the right answer.


I'm a girl and I do that. I know that I'm right, but for some reason people find women being right and knowing off-putting, so I quash my inner Hermione and play their game.


If this is a problem for you (and not looking down on you if it is), then definitely find a way to get over that before law school. Law school has a way of messing with people's confidence like nothing else. It seems especially bad for women.


Ha no I'm too confident for a girl-- that's my point. I have to tone it down so as not to hurt the poor menz feelings and alienate other girls. Believe me, I am a super angry feminist, but you have to be able to turn it off sometimes or you shoot yourself in the foot.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:04 pm

rebexness wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:The fuck does female have to do with this?


I think he meant the females are socialized to be less confident in their academic ability, not they're innately less capable. I think there have been studies done to show that girls in class are much more likely to use qualifiers/hesitate when answering a question ("Well, I think..." or "I guess..." or "something like...") than boys are, even when they're actually pretty sure they have the right answer.


JFC how many stereotypical movies have you been watching?


What are you talking about? Don't follow you at all, or get the connection with "stereotypical movies". I'm not claiming I've done exhaustive research on the sociology/educational psychology/whatever. I was just trying to clarify what I think he was saying, and mentioning some study I half remembered from Newsweek.

Big Dog
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby Big Dog » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:12 pm

The ---- does female have to do with this?


Plenty of psychologial studies that show that females tend to have more test anxiety than guys, in the aggregate. Personally, I don't buy that such a thing exists and if it does, it has to be social, not innate. Thus, the recommendation for counseling, to either show a real learning/testing disability, or to learn to beat the personal test anxiety, ace the LSAT, and proper. Much better than going to a T1.

rebexness
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby rebexness » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:27 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
rebex wrote:
JFC how many stereotypical movies have you been watching?


What are you talking about? Don't follow you at all, or get the connection with "stereotypical movies". I'm not claiming I've done exhaustive research on the sociology/educational psychology/whatever. I was just trying to clarify what I think he was saying, and mentioning some study I half remembered from Newsweek.


Sorry that came across more personal attack-y than necessary.
Just that I've "heard" of that a lot- but never seen it in 20+ years of school, only in the movies.
Last edited by rebexness on Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MistakenGenius
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ManoftheHour
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby ManoftheHour » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:30 pm

anyriotgirl wrote:Ha no I'm too confident for a girl-- that's my point. I have to tone it down so as not to hurt the poor menz feelings and alienate other girls. Believe me, I am a super angry feminist, but you have to be able to turn it off sometimes or you shoot yourself in the foot.


I'd say don't tone it down. Sets your kind back. If I were a female, I'd be the angriest feminist around, and for good reason. Men that get hurt aren't real men to begin (their feelings get hurt because they're really insecure with themselves). Girls who get hurt already accepted in life that they are second best to men so who cares about them, right? You know, the kinds that think and complain about the fact that the man should always pay on the first date/propose to them/open the door and let them through first bullcrap. Fake feminists annoy me. One of my longest relationships was with a girl that asked me out and planned the entire first date. Even Pink proposed to her manly motocross champion boyfriend.

I've only really met a small handful of real feminists and they're really quite refreshing and way less annoying than most girls.

Not to derail this thread, but back on topic. You have an amazing GPA. Get a mid 160 and you're pretty much at a full ride and then some for all the schools you just listed. If you refuse to take another year off, why not deposit at one of those schools, sign up for the June LSAT, beast it, and then decide from there? Obviously, if you score lower, who gives a shit? You're already deposited and will attend law school this August. But what if you beast it? Then you have the OPTION of deciding whether or not to take another year or not. You've literally have nothing to lose other than some time to study. I did the exact same thing. I deposited at a TTT last year and retook and scored higher. Here I am. Reapplying. And I couldn't be happier.

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deadpanic
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby deadpanic » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:49 pm

TwirlerGirl wrote:Okay, here is my reasoning for not re-taking. First of all, obviously I'm not lazy or I wouldn't have a 4.0. I'm good at exams, not standardized tests. Also, law school is all about being top of your class. I feel that these schools give me a chance at being a big fish in a smaller pond. I feel like I would drown if I got into Harvard and Yale and it wouldn't be worth it. Even if I got a full ride to a top 14, what if I can't even keep my scholarship past the first year? Maybe some of those schools only have an 8% chance at big law, I think I have a better chance at top 8% at those schools.


I know a fellow student I graduated law school with that also graduated with a 4.0. Finished near the bottom of our law school class and failed the bar exam. She now waits tables with a law degree. Not to rain on your parade, but a 4.0 is really no indicator for your success in law school. Further, employers won't care that you got a 4.0 in undergrad. They care about your law school and your grades at that school.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:58 pm

rebexness wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
rebex wrote:
JFC how many stereotypical movies have you been watching?


What are you talking about? Don't follow you at all, or get the connection with "stereotypical movies". I'm not claiming I've done exhaustive research on the sociology/educational psychology/whatever. I was just trying to clarify what I think he was saying, and mentioning some study I half remembered from Newsweek.


Sorry that came across more personal attack-y than necessary.
Just that I've "heard" of that a lot- but never seen it in 20+ years of school, only in the movies.


The thing about this sort of stuff is it's a lot more subtle in real life than it is in the movies, where the obviously have to accentuate it to make sure the audience actually picks up on it.

I mean, I'm agnostic on the question of whether or not it's actually a widespread phenomenon. Just trying to clarify what I thought he was talking about.

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Gooner91
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby Gooner91 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:02 pm

TwirlerGirl wrote:Okay, here is my reasoning for not re-taking. First of all, obviously I'm not lazy or I wouldn't have a 4.0. I'm good at exams, not standardized tests. Also, law school is all about being top of your class. I feel that these schools give me a chance at being a big fish in a smaller pond. I feel like I would drown if I got into Harvard and Yale and it wouldn't be worth it. Even if I got a full ride to a top 14, what if I can't even keep my scholarship past the first year? Maybe some of those schools only have an 8% chance at big law, I think I have a better chance at top 8% at those schools.


What makes you think you would be a big fish in a small pond? All of your classmates at any school you attend were smart enough to get into the same school as you. I think your confidence is unfounded

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Cicero76
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby Cicero76 » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:24 pm

I am also a KJD from Orlando, Florida. If you have some specific questions or want to chat about my cycle/law school from a Florida perspective, shoot me a PM

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brotherdarkness
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby brotherdarkness » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:53 pm

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Last edited by brotherdarkness on Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BmoreOrLess
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby BmoreOrLess » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:27 am

I always enjoy the "I don't want to waste a year of my life" excuse. Especially from K-JD's.

Hint: Even without retaking, getting a job so you have something other than school to talk about in interviews is far from wasting a year of your life. (But definitely retake)

03152016
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby 03152016 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:49 am

How did you study, and for how long? Considering you were valedictorian and took the test twice, the score is a little surprising.

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Emma.
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby Emma. » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:02 am

TwirlerGirl wrote:
I just hate the prospect of wasting a whole year of my life to study in the hopes that I increase my score.


If you can increase your score by 10 points that score is almost certainly going to earn you full rides at the schools you are looking at (and likely better ones too). That's like getting paid $150K.

pcthenls
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby pcthenls » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:27 am

worldtraveler wrote:
TwirlerGirl wrote:Okay, here is my reasoning for not re-taking. First of all, obviously I'm not lazy or I wouldn't have a 4.0. I'm good at exams, not standardized tests. Also, law school is all about being top of your class. I feel that these schools give me a chance at being a big fish in a smaller pond. I feel like I would drown if I got into Harvard and Yale and it wouldn't be worth it. Even if I got a full ride to a top 14, what if I can't even keep my scholarship past the first year? Maybe some of those schools only have an 8% chance at big law, I think I have a better chance at top 8% at those schools.


The top schools don't have scholarship stipulations.

And literally everyone with a scholarship is going to think they will be top of the class. Most will be wrong. Law school grades are hard to predict and no one should count on being at the top.

And the LSAT is not like any other standardized exams anyway. You just have to learn the test.


+1 and to re-quote what everyone is saying, if you must go to a regional school, choose one that is cheap and where you have ties/plan to stay. It will still be an uphill battle.

Also, If you don't want to retake, at least get some legal work experience. I applied three years ago and now am having a tremendously better cycle with my same stats due to work experience and demonstrated interest in a particular field. Go work and figure out what you want to do/ where you want to live. Then reapply. Also, you should retake (so should I really)

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mes10d
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby mes10d » Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:41 am

FFS, retake.

I was a young naive K-JD last year who was stretched way too thin with a full course load and sorority dictatorship, and consequently did not study for (and did terribly on) the LSAT. And had mono during both attempts.....good times! I loathed the idea of a year off, but it's the BEST thing I've ever done. My score went up 11 points after four months of almost daily studying. Furthermore, I also fucked up the last section of the exam and misnumbered the last 6 Qs on LR (bubbled in the same answer for 2 Qs in a row, and the rest was history..). I would've gotten those right, so my score would've jumped 11+ pts if I knew how to fill in a scantron. Also, no comments please, because I will kick myself for that idiocy until I'm in law school.

Let's presume LG is your worst section (as it is for most). Imagine if you mastered LG (I recommend Cambrige bundles + the Manhattan book), and could practically guarantee yourself a -0 on the LG section on the test. That'd already significantly boost your score, and LG starts to get fun/is really the least amount of work (IMO, but I'm a robot and like puzzles so). You have to learn how to study for the test before you actually study, but it is so worth it.

Last year, I'd probably have barely gotten into FSU, and this year I'm very realistically hoping to end up at USC. (Yes, other posters, I know it's not T14, but I have my own reasons for being ok with being on the fringe of T14.)

Gaining a year of WE will also give you a slight edge over K-JDs with the same stats. Statistically, I think Ad Comms prefer that (can someone back me up here, or is this late night delirium turned speculation?). And you can save some $ that can go towards living expenses, etc.

The whole "big fish in a small pond" is also BS. You have no idea how hard grading will be, whether or not curves will exist, or how good other students are. It's much better to be top 40% at T14 than top 5% at Minnesota (I think that's the best school you listed). Be a fish in the big pond.

Take the year off to do some research in those areas of law, as they're all completely different than each other. Make some contacts. Try to maybe shadow your Disney lawyers, interrogate them about their law school experiences. You have everything to lose from matriculating now, and everything to gain from waiting a year. You have 8 full months until the October exam, and could very easily raise your score significantly.

Also, don't make weather a factor. If I'm lucky and get into my "reach" schools, you can sure bet that I'll gladly freeze my ass off for three years. Also, on a Biglaw salary, you can afford fantastic winter clothes (cashmere! Cashmere!) that soften the pain of the cold. The defeatist attitude and rigid mindset are not going to serve you well in any law school, any field. Sorry to add to what you don't want to hear, but there's strength in numbers.

BigZuck
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby BigZuck » Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:46 am

mes10d wrote:FFS, retake.

I was a young naive K-JD last year who was stretched way too thin with a full course load and sorority dictatorship, and consequently did not study for (and did terribly on) the LSAT. I loathed the idea of a year off, but it's the BEST thing I've ever done. My score went up 11 points after four months of almost daily studying. Furthermore, I also fucked up the last section of the exam and misnumbered the last 6 Qs on LR (bubbled in the same answer for 2 Qs in a row, and the rest was history..). I would've gotten those right, so my score would've jumped 11+ pts if I knew how to fill in a scantron. Also, no comments please, because I will kick myself for that idiocy until I'm in law school.

Let's presume LG is your worst section (as it is for most). Imagine if you mastered LG (I recommend Cambrige bundles + the Manhattan book), and could practically guarantee yourself a -0 on the LG section on the test. That'd already significantly boost your score, and LG starts to get fun/is really the least amount of work (IMO, but I'm a robot and like puzzles so). You have to learn how to study for the test before you actually study, but it is so worth it.

Last year, I'd probably have barely gotten into FSU, and this year I'm very realistically hoping to end up at USC. (Yes, other posters, I know it's not T14, but I have my own reasons for being ok with being on the fringe of T14.)

Gaining a year of WE will also give you a slight edge over K-JDs with the same stats. Statistically, I think Ad Comms prefer that (can someone back me up here, or is this late night delirium turned speculation?). And you can save some $ that can go towards living expenses, etc.

The whole "big fish in a small pond" is also BS. You have no idea how hard grading will be, whether or not curves will exist, or how good other students are. It's much better to be top 40% at T14 than top 5% at Minnesota (I think that's the best school you listed). Be a fish in the big pond.

Take the year off to do some research in those areas of law, as they're all completely different than each other. Make some contacts. Try to maybe shadow your Disney lawyers, interrogate them about their law school experiences. You have everything to lose from matriculating now, and everything to gain from waiting a year. You have 8 full months until the October exam, and could very easily raise your score significantly.

Also, don't make weather a factor. If I'm lucky and get into my "reach" schools, you can sure bet that I'll gladly freeze my ass off for three years. Also, on a Biglaw salary, you can afford fantastic winter clothes (cashmere! Cashmere!) that soften the pain of the cold. The defeatist attitude and rigid mindset are not going to serve you well in any law school, any field. Sorry to add to what you don't want to hear, but they're strength in numbers.


Sounds like you need to retake as well, ya?

Work experience is good when applying for jobs. Guessing it has a negligible effect on admissions.

chingwoo
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby chingwoo » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:48 am

I have a 2.8x and I have more money than you at Minnesota and Alabama. Tell me why you don't want to retake? Use that 4.0 that you worked for.

killer133
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby killer133 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:01 am

It's so funny to watch so many people try to persuade OP while 22 yr old OP thinks she's wasting 1 yr for much better career outcome (so many people are over 25 when they go to law school). I'm not going to when so many tried and she still hasn't made decision.

Another way of thinking though, if the people who go to these school are this much dumb/not persistent/irresponsible/illogical/don't have a clue, maybe she has high chance of being summa cum laude there.

Yeah, I'll take median at lower T14 over summa cum laude at any of these.

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Nucky
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby Nucky » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:43 am

OP lacks reason and the ability to understand logic. A retake probably wouldn't do OP much good.

If three pages of TLS hellfire hasn't convinced OP, four pages won't either. Fuck it. Carry on, folks.

*pours and distributes margaritas* 8)

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dcpanther
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby dcpanther » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:48 am

edited post
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patogordo
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby patogordo » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:50 am

I would just go. What if you retake and do worse? Then your life would basically be over.

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BmoreOrLess
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Re: Choosing Between Eleven Law Schools

Postby BmoreOrLess » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:53 am

BigZuck wrote:Sounds like you need to retake as well, ya?

Work experience is good when applying for jobs. Guessing it has a negligible effect on admissions.


FWIW, I seemed to outperform my numbers this year, and I can almost guarantee it's because of WE.




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