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ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:02 pm
by Dr. Review
UPDATE: Please post your goals for attending law school (i.e. PI/biglaw) and any potential scholarships/ties

Preferred format:
Goal(s): Biglaw, PI, etc.
Regional Ties: Any ties that are substantial enough to sell in an interview, especially if they show up on your resume
School(s): Name of school and total cost to attend (NOT the total scholarship award) after scholarships and cost of living
Other pertinent information: Undergrad loans, GI bill, spouse who covers COA, etc.


I thought we might be able to condense some of the chatter about why you shouldn't attend most schools outside the T14 without a substantial scholarship, especially if it isn't a state flagship that places well in a market that is not oversaturated.

I know that a number of practicing attorneys, such as reasonable man, rad lulz, me, etc. are raring for chances to break down why your top choice is bad, backed with loads of stats as well as anecdotal data. So tell us any school that you are seriously considering outside the T14, and we'll tell you why it's bad. I'll try to keep a running tally of bad schools, and if this takes off, I'll include links to the start of a discussion about why that school is a profit mongering degree mill.

Just to keep the advice as practical as possible, please limit advice posts to post-grads (although jobless 3Ls may have some input).


Practicing attorneys ready to pounce:
Dr. Review
timbs4339
rad lulz
worldtraveler
bikeflip
prezidentv8
reasonable_man
beach_terror
presh
romothesavior

Do not go under any circumstances
UMaine
Cincinnati
UC Irvine (employment numbers are good, but there are too many unknowns, and the bottom could fall out at any time)
St. Johns
Cardozo
NYLS
Brooklyn
Quinnipiac
DePaul
American
Catholic
Hastings
Santa Clara

Might be worth it for free/near free (assuming you have ties or the region doesn't require ties)
Fordham
W&M
Chicago-Kent (borderline with don't go; market is really saturated, Kent is low on the totem pole)
W&L
Pitt
George Mason
IU-B
Emory (COL alone is enough to incur $75k debt, less than 70% tuition isn't worth it)
UCLA
USC

Reasonable alternative for half or better scholarship
Vandy
BC/BU ($75k-$100k total cost; >50% scholly)
UNC(in-state or half)/Wake
SMU
ND (50% is borderline, maybe more like 75% scholly)
WUSTL

Might be worth it at sticker (lol)


Jury still out (discussion ongoing):



Bikeflip wrote:Also, if we're adding useful stuff to the OP, add this: A loan repayment calculator

Maybe this, too: Zillow's real estate market In other words, what does a mortgage payment look like when compared to a student loan payment?


Paul Campos wrote:I've made this suggestion a couple of times before and will make it again, as it seems especially germane to this excellent conversation:

Discussions of this type need to take into account as explicitly as possible the likely opportunity cost which will be incurred by the prospective law student. I get emails on a regular basis from people who are making $60K or more in stable jobs featuring good benefits, who are thinking about going to law school. Such people are in a radically different position than people with non-marketable undergrad degrees, working ten dollar an hour retail jobs with no benefits and zero job security.

This is an obvious point, but it's not one of the pieces of information people are asked to provide by the message stickied at the top of the forum.

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:04 pm
by lawpanther
Does it have to be our top choice or just a school we're considering?

My vote would be for UC Irvine.

thanks!

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:07 pm
by Dr. Review
lawpanther wrote:Does it have to be our top choice or just a school we're considering?

My vote would be for UC Irvine.

thanks!


OP edited to allow schools that aren't top choices. Will let this post go to someone else for now, don't want to hog the thread.

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:07 pm
by timbs4339
Checking in as a practicing attorney, ready to pounce.

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:08 pm
by TheSpanishMain
William and Mary.

UNC.

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:12 pm
by yossarian
ND

WUSTL

IUB (for Indy only)

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:13 pm
by Giddy-Up
Chicago-Kent, full scholarship, part time.

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:14 pm
by John Everyman
BU or BC

Edit: Also curious about ND

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:22 pm
by bound
SMU @ 90k

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:23 pm
by rad lulz
timbs4339 wrote:Checking in as a practicing attorney, ready to pounce.

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:25 pm
by Synch
Fordham, half scholly

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:25 pm
by rad lulz
m

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:26 pm
by rad lulz
m

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:28 pm
by jk148706
Vandy

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:28 pm
by Dr. Review
Going forward, let's try to categorize schools under one the following categories:

-Do not go under any circumstances
-Might be worth it for free (assuming you have ties or the region doesn't require ties)
-Reasonable alternative for half or better scholarship
-Might be worth it at sticker (lol)

Feel free to amend categories if they don't make sense.

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:30 pm
by rad lulz
m

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:30 pm
by jk148706
Cincinnati 1/3 scholarship

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:31 pm
by rad lulz
jk148706 wrote:Vandy

If you're a vanilla applicant (K-JD, no significant contact in legal industry, etc.) don't take out more than about 100k in loans

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:32 pm
by rad lulz
m

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:33 pm
by Attax
Texas with tuition exemption
Washington & Lee with 35k/year
WUStL with no schollie info yet
Baylor with full ride + stipend

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:34 pm
by Dr. Review
TheSpanishMain wrote:UNC.


I'd take UNC at in-state or half scholarship (same for Wake w/o in-state)
I doubt I would attend either without strong ties to NC

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:35 pm
by rad lulz
I'd take out maybe about $75k in loans for most state flagships including wake/unc

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:39 pm
by TheSpanishMain
Bedsole wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:UNC.


I'd take UNC at in-state or half scholarship (same for Wake w/o in-state)
I doubt I would attend either without strong ties to NC


What about W&M? (Either would be free/nearly free due to Post 9/11 GI bill)

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:41 pm
by Dr. Review
TheSpanishMain wrote:
Bedsole wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:UNC.


I'd take UNC at in-state or half scholarship (same for Wake w/o in-state)
I doubt I would attend either without strong ties to NC


What about W&M? (Either would be free/nearly free due to Post 9/11 GI bill)


I'd do W&M for near free with ties to VA. UNC for near free with strong ties to NC is a go also. Both markets are tough to crack for outsiders, and both are saturated.
All things being equal between the two though, UNC is the better choice. Most common law degree in NC midlaw/biglaw by far.

Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:51 pm
by tjsmms061906
W&L with full tuition (GI Bill) and $25K/yr no stips (I will try to recode so I can apply it to cost of living)