ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

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timbs4339
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby timbs4339 » Tue May 20, 2014 8:56 pm

The thing is, all the great fundraising, the gaming the USNWR rankings did exactly jack for the students at Case on the job market. It's the same with NYU UG, all that spending on buying up real estate in lower Manhattan and building campuses in Abu Dhabi hasn't done anything but turn the school into one of the more ridiculously overpriced institutions of higher ed in this country (for some reason it seems to always be the school mentioned in those stories about how many college grads are turning to prostitution to pay back their student loans).

BigJimboOrleans wrote:Between American U and UMaryland. I keep hearing a lot of hate from the boards about AU, but I see no problems with the school when I look at their ABA numbers?

UMaryland is about $10k/year cheaper with in state tuition vs scholly to AU and "ranked" way higher, yet their employment numbers look close to the same. My biggest concern with jumping to UMd is the fact that it is in Baltimore as opposed to the DC/MD/VA gov area (where I want to end up).


What's the total COA?

I'm not sure how you can look at this and not see a problem: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/american/2013/

I mean, JFC. These people spent years in school and shelled out 200K for 44.8% FTLT legal jobs.

tlefky
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby tlefky » Wed May 21, 2014 9:31 pm

UCLA 45k a year vs. Berkeley sticker

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prezidentv8
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu May 22, 2014 12:09 am

tlefky wrote:UCLA 45k a year vs. Berkeley sticker


nope

tlefky
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby tlefky » Thu May 22, 2014 12:47 am

I'm sorry, I meant 45k a year scholarship. so UCLA for 70k total

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prezidentv8
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu May 22, 2014 3:07 am

tlefky wrote:I'm sorry, I meant 45k a year scholarship. so UCLA for 70k total


little risky for me, but, ok then.

UCLA, if you must.

howdidigetinhere
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby howdidigetinhere » Wed May 28, 2014 11:48 am

OSU at 50% or Chicago-Kent with nearly full scholly?

I'm from Ohio, could attend OSU without moving (but I'd prefer move closer to avoid an hour commute each way). However, I love Chicago, and have been awarded a housing allowance. CK also has a third-year program in which to earn the JD and the LLM at the same time--I am very interested in this. Thinking of practicing corporate law. Partner will be moving with me and giving up his job if moving to CK.

Also, thoughts on whether a student will fair better to attend and compete at a school in which they are at the medians, or go to a school they are above the 75%? Is it better to graduate at the top of a TT school or in the middle of a Tier 1?

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prezidentv8
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed May 28, 2014 1:17 pm

howdidigetinhere wrote:OSU at 50% or Chicago-Kent with nearly full scholly?

I'm from Ohio, could attend OSU without moving (but I'd prefer move closer to avoid an hour commute each way). However, I love Chicago, and have been awarded a housing allowance. CK also has a third-year program in which to earn the JD and the LLM at the same time--I am very interested in this. Thinking of practicing corporate law. Partner will be moving with me and giving up his job if moving to CK.

Also, thoughts on whether a student will fair better to attend and compete at a school in which they are at the medians, or go to a school they are above the 75%? Is it better to graduate at the top of a TT school or in the middle of a Tier 1?


What's total cost of attendance for each? Chicago w/ housing allowance sounds pretty good though. No stips on that scholly?

workaholic82
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby workaholic82 » Wed May 28, 2014 1:33 pm

Wustl with full scholly but no stipend or coverge for tuition increases versus UIUC with full scholly, frozen tuition and a 4,000 stipend for manditory fees. Difference in cost is uiuc would be 12-18k cheaper. Some legal w/e, older student. Strong Chicago ties, would like Chicago or NY big law, and these are my cheapest options to take a stab at it.

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aboutmydaylight
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby aboutmydaylight » Wed May 28, 2014 3:20 pm

Stanford @ ~140k debt financed COA for Bay Area big law.

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lawschool22
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby lawschool22 » Wed May 28, 2014 3:39 pm

Change of plans:

Harvard, for $195k total debt at repayment. Goals include DC biglaw (litigation) and transitioning at some point to federal government, or potentially going to federal from the start if feasible. I'm also somewhat interested in clerking.

Background is 2 years of WE as CPA at a large public accounting firm.

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butlerraider1
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby butlerraider1 » Wed May 28, 2014 3:54 pm

.
Last edited by butlerraider1 on Wed May 28, 2014 4:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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JCougar
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby JCougar » Wed May 28, 2014 4:13 pm

butlerraider1 wrote:Goal(s): ADA
Regional Ties: Lived in the area my whole life, and would like to continue living there after graduation
School(s): Albany Law School with full scholarship and no COL (commuting from home)


My guess is that it's going to be pretty hard to get NY ADA from Albany, so even if you graduate with no debt, you should start figuring out your plans B and C before you devote 3 years of your life at a school that gives you a 60% chance of getting any actual legal job...much less a desirable one such as ADA.

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JCougar
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby JCougar » Wed May 28, 2014 4:13 pm

lawschool22 wrote:Change of plans:

Harvard, for $195k total debt at repayment. Goals include DC biglaw (litigation) and transitioning at some point to federal government, or potentially going to federal from the start if feasible. I'm also somewhat interested in clerking.

Background is 2 years of WE as CPA at a large public accounting firm.


You're fine.

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JCougar
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby JCougar » Wed May 28, 2014 4:15 pm

workaholic82 wrote:Wustl with full scholly but no stipend or coverge for tuition increases versus UIUC with full scholly, frozen tuition and a 4,000 stipend for manditory fees. Difference in cost is uiuc would be 12-18k cheaper. Some legal w/e, older student. Strong Chicago ties, would like Chicago or NY big law, and these are my cheapest options to take a stab at it.


I think WUSTL has better ties to NYC, but UIUC has better ties to Chicago.

Be wary of the long-term employment effect of UIUC's collapse in entering class medians and general reputation for scandal. It's class profiles these days are only slightly better than those of Loyola and IIT-Kent, so their employment numbers will not continue to resemble that of a T25 if that continues...which seems pretty likely.

howdidigetinhere
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby howdidigetinhere » Wed May 28, 2014 4:23 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:
howdidigetinhere wrote:OSU at 50% or Chicago-Kent with nearly full scholly?

I'm from Ohio, could attend OSU without moving (but I'd prefer move closer to avoid an hour commute each way). However, I love Chicago, and have been awarded a housing allowance. CK also has a third-year program in which to earn the JD and the LLM at the same time--I am very interested in this. Thinking of practicing corporate law. Partner will be moving with me and giving up his job if moving to CK.

Also, thoughts on whether a student will fair better to attend and compete at a school in which they are at the medians, or go to a school they are above the 75%? Is it better to graduate at the top of a TT school or in the middle of a Tier 1?


What's total cost of attendance for each? Chicago w/ housing allowance sounds pretty good though. No stips on that scholly?


COA for OSU is 49,000. I'm receiving 16,000 in scholly with a min 2.0 GPA stip. I can stay at home to cut down on COA fees. COA for CK is 69,000. I have a no stip 35,000 scholly, plus 1000 per month housing allowance (which cuts down on COA?)

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worldtraveler
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby worldtraveler » Wed May 28, 2014 4:28 pm

Can you guys just post the total COA in a simple manner? Lawyers don't math.

howdidigetinhere
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby howdidigetinhere » Wed May 28, 2014 4:42 pm

worldtraveler wrote:Can you guys just post the total COA in a simple manner? Lawyers don't math.


Haha. No, I can't. Because I can't do math. :D

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lawschool22
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby lawschool22 » Wed May 28, 2014 5:04 pm

I made a very helpful and handy spreadsheet to calculate COA for you to use:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=225195

workaholic82
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby workaholic82 » Wed May 28, 2014 5:22 pm

JCougar wrote:
workaholic82 wrote:Wustl with full scholly but no stipend or coverge for tuition increases versus UIUC with full scholly, frozen tuition and a 4,000 stipend for manditory fees. Difference in cost is uiuc would be 12-18k cheaper. Some legal w/e, older student. Strong Chicago ties, would like Chicago or NY big law, and these are my cheapest options to take a stab at it.


I think WUSTL has better ties to NYC, but UIUC has better ties to Chicago.

Be wary of the long-term employment effect of UIUC's collapse in entering class medians and general reputation for scandal. It's class profiles these days are only slightly better than those of Loyola and IIT-Kent, so their employment numbers will not continue to resemble that of a T25 if that continues...which seems pretty likely.

So it sounds like you think WUSTL is the better play here?

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JCougar
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby JCougar » Wed May 28, 2014 5:45 pm

workaholic82 wrote:
JCougar wrote:
workaholic82 wrote:Wustl with full scholly but no stipend or coverge for tuition increases versus UIUC with full scholly, frozen tuition and a 4,000 stipend for manditory fees. Difference in cost is uiuc would be 12-18k cheaper. Some legal w/e, older student. Strong Chicago ties, would like Chicago or NY big law, and these are my cheapest options to take a stab at it.


I think WUSTL has better ties to NYC, but UIUC has better ties to Chicago.

Be wary of the long-term employment effect of UIUC's collapse in entering class medians and general reputation for scandal. It's class profiles these days are only slightly better than those of Loyola and IIT-Kent, so their employment numbers will not continue to resemble that of a T25 if that continues...which seems pretty likely.

So it sounds like you think WUSTL is the better play here?


Depends. If your goals are shitlaw in Chicago or Illinois government, UIUC may be better. If you don't care much between NYC or Chicago, I think WUSTL is a safer long-term play.

If your goal is Chicago biglaw, it's really Northwestern, U of C, or bust, and neither school is a good idea. Biglaw hiring in Chicago has contracted something awful, and they only dip outside the T14 for URM or IP hires.

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jbagelboy
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby jbagelboy » Wed May 28, 2014 5:48 pm

lawschool22 wrote:Change of plans:

Harvard, for $195k total debt at repayment. Goals include DC biglaw (litigation) and transitioning at some point to federal government, or potentially going to federal from the start if feasible. I'm also somewhat interested in clerking.

Background is 2 years of WE as CPA at a large public accounting firm.


Im a little surprised you opted for the higher debt option so quickly

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lawschool22
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby lawschool22 » Wed May 28, 2014 6:21 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:Change of plans:

Harvard, for $195k total debt at repayment. Goals include DC biglaw (litigation) and transitioning at some point to federal government, or potentially going to federal from the start if feasible. I'm also somewhat interested in clerking.

Background is 2 years of WE as CPA at a large public accounting firm.


Im a little surprised you opted for the higher debt option so quickly


It may have seemed quick but I have been thinking it through for a while, so I could respond quickly if presented with that opportinity. I just felt that given my specific goals Harvard was worth the increased cost, and I didn't really have any less-expensive option at the CCN level. It was basically Harvard v Duke, and I felt the extra ~$100k was probably worth it in the end.

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jbagelboy
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby jbagelboy » Wed May 28, 2014 6:44 pm

lawschool22 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:Change of plans:

Harvard, for $195k total debt at repayment. Goals include DC biglaw (litigation) and transitioning at some point to federal government, or potentially going to federal from the start if feasible. I'm also somewhat interested in clerking.

Background is 2 years of WE as CPA at a large public accounting firm.


Im a little surprised you opted for the higher debt option so quickly


It may have seemed quick but I have been thinking it through for a while, so I could respond quickly if presented with that opportinity. I just felt that given my specific goals Harvard was worth the increased cost, and I didn't really have any less-expensive option at the CCN level. It was basically Harvard v Duke, and I felt the extra ~$100k was probably worth it in the end.


Yea I think you'll do great and it can be worth it for DC/gov, it just felt like an instantaneous response as far as tls could tell (and its not an obvious choice imo since both are such solid choices) although Im sure you debated it personally long in advance

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lawschool22
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby lawschool22 » Wed May 28, 2014 7:03 pm

Haha believe me I didn't make the decision lightly. But by the time I got the js1b I was close to a decision, and I had the long weekend to think very hard about it. I was fortunate to where either choice wasn't "wrong" so to speak. This just seemed like the right choice for me. I can see how others might make a different one though.

TooOld4This
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby TooOld4This » Wed May 28, 2014 8:50 pm

lawschool22 wrote:Change of plans:

Harvard, for $195k total debt at repayment. Goals include DC biglaw (litigation) and transitioning at some point to federal government, or potentially going to federal from the start if feasible. I'm also somewhat interested in clerking.

Background is 2 years of WE as CPA at a large public accounting firm.


You are overpaying for your goals, but will have the ability to pay back the debt. Don't be surprised that you find the debt pushes you to make choices that don't further your plan going in. (The extra $100k in debt is likely to be more of an impediment than the difference between Harvard and Duke would be.)




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